Your Arizona Cardinals now hold the 16th pick in the 2025 NFL Draft

[Chopper0080]

I have no issue with the MHJ pick. I wouldnt trade MHJ for Bowers straight up even now.

Edit. Wouldn’t trade.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Not at all WC. Just a lot of posters insist on 20/20 hindsight.
You Da Man!

I can't be the man cuz you da man...

 

[Chopper0080]

Armand Membou
Welcome to AZ(in the 2nd round) @Chopper0080

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You want him at OT? Or OG?

 

[Russ Smith]

My info says he played hurt

Sort of what I'm asking, was he actually hurt earlier and they didn't tell us? The thing is it wasn't just him having trouble blocking speed rushers after the bye, it seemed like him jumping early happened more after the bye too. Although I suppose that could be connected too, he's playing hurt so he's trying to time the snap to drop back quicker since he's slower than normal?

 

[Harry]

Sort of what I'm asking, was he actually hurt earlier and they didn't tell us? The thing is it wasn't just him having trouble blocking speed rushers after the bye, it seemed like him jumping early happened more after the bye too. Although I suppose that could be connected too, he's playing hurt so he's trying to time the snap to drop back quicker since he's slower than normal?

I think the penalties indcated he needed a jump on his opponents considering his limitations. Injuries progressing is common especially late in the season.

 

[DVontel]

You want him at OT? Or OG?

OT

 

[Chopper0080]

OT

I am generally hesitant about OTs 6’3 and under.

 

[Chopper0080]

Just a size outlier I don’t want any part of.

 

[BACH]

And nothing indicates he will be. Bowers is ALREADY great.



Lol… passed the eye test? He passed EVERY TEST. Statiscal, rookie honors, Pro Bowl honors.

Oh yeah… and FIRST TEAM ALL-PRO.



This is not a real argument. His drops, his lack of focus, his mid stats AND the eye say he wasn’t even close to pro bowl level. That is a joke. He ranks in the 30s for WRs in yards. That’s a just below Pro Bowl WR? Come on man.

I should just stop reading here after that laughable argument point, but I’m bored so let’s carry on.



No… YOU can not compare stats because to do so shows the Grand Canyon difference between the two players and are you kidding me? Calling the Raiders a “passing” offense is an even bigger joke. He had absolutely TERRIBLE QBs throwing the ball, he was the ONLY option, faced constant double teams and STILL broke out as arguably the best TE in the game… as a rookie.



Right… so MJH saw LESS coverage than Bowers and still couldn’t get open at near the same rates.

As for your “garbage” point… it’s garbage also. Unless you want to go back and claim Fitz or Boldin’s yards were garbage all those years we were bad.



Wait… on one hand you say in point 1 that we can’t make the analysis after 1 year yet NO WAY THIS WASNT THE RIGHT PICK? Well, you just violated your own argument.


Newsflash BACH… hindsight is how GMs are judged! Why? Because you can actually see their decisions play out on the field. Weird shocking concept!

Not sure if I should be honored that you replied only because you were bored when you actually didn't want to OR I reply in the same condescending tone.

I'll go with the latter, since I have a issue with people that think they have a better argumentation by "yelling louder".

With that I now face the dilemma if I even want to engage in a discussion with a person that is clearly so clueless about football. Honestly not worth my time, but I'm bored....

So, I clearly state that Bowers looked better in the eyetest, yet you are making it out like I didn't acknowledge that. First. Bowers was NOT the best TE in the league. That was CLEARLY Kittle, followed by McBride and then Bowers. It's still impressive as a rookie to be the 3rd best TE in the NFL.

Bowers eyetest doesn't impact MHJ's eyetest, however. He looked ALL-Pro in a few game, completely disappeared in a few games and like a solid WR in most - as a rookie. Over the season that gave him a pff rating as the 21st best WR in the NFL, which is (tah-dah) just below the pro-bowl threshold. MHJ had a good season for a rookie WR, which is a position typically with a highlearning curve. I'm assuming that this is where you will bring in the immediate impact rookie WRs. Sorry, you cannot cherry pick your data to prove a point. You have to use complete datasets. Take the top WRs in the NFL. You will be comparing MHJ to Chase, Nakua and Jefferson as rookies, but are conveniently leaving out Collins's 436 yards as a rookie and the MHJ had similar rookie stats to AJ Brown, St. Brown and Drake London.

On the Raiders not being a passing attack... Even with those horrible QBs to hold the team back, the Raiders had the 13th best passing attack, hence a passing offense... That means the entire scheme and personel is designed to pass, which we the opposite of a 12 scheme focusing on running the ball. That actually has a huge impact on the stats, especially when you are schemed to be the #1 weapon. You clearly fail to understand the game and schemes in garbage time. No, a passing offense means scheming to put your #1 waepon in the best position. And garbage time doesn't mean tighter coverages, it's means loser coverage underneath (to TEs). Bowers had a total 166 yards when Raiders were in front and the Raiders didn't have to force the ball. 37% of Bowers' production came in the 4th quarter.

You then call me out for stating that MHJ was the right pick, when I also said it's too early to evaluate. You get that take from a section on my post, where I explain positional value and mention that word several time. Not sure if you conveniently ignoring that to prove your point, you are not able to read the words I'm writing or you simply do not know enough about NFL to know positional value. Let me spell it out.... different positions has different value. That is based both on the importance of the position on the field, how easy it is to get a "run of the mill" solid starter and where the elite talent seperate the most from your average good players. WR has the 4th highest positional value, TE is usually considered the 9th. Based on POSITIONAL VALUE, MHJ was the right pick. We can then discuss if Monti should have drafted Nabers or if MHJ will develop to an elite WR - this is were the development factor comes in for later evaluation. But the point is that you do not draft a low positional value player that high, when you have higher value pick available.
NEWSFLASH! GMs are evaluated on talent brought (in hindsigt) in as a whole and not players cherry picked by you to spin your narrative. That is the true joke here - your cherrypicking in hindsight to build your argumentation. Should the Chiefs fire Andy Reid for not drafting G Puni? Should Howie Roseman be fired for drafting Quinyon Mitchell and not Lassiter? How about the Commanders GM? Yeah, he drafted Rookie of the Year, but he missed on Sweat, Fiske, DeJean, Lassiter, when he drafted Newton. Should all GMs in the league be fired for not drafting Bucky Irving or Trotter Jr.?. Did you fire your financial advisor returning a 20% ROI for not buying Gamestop stocks?

All that matters is if MHJ develop or not, because that was the logical and rational pick. You actually must have a tough life if you are basing quality on all the birds on the roof and not the birds you have in your hand. Does Monti bat above average? To Be Determined! But so far with an incomplete grade it certainly looks like it.