Your solution for tanking

[JCSunsfan]

Tanking seems to have become a problem in the NBA especially this time of year. It diminishes that value of games when teams and players arent trying. The lottery is the NBA's solution. But it is not working. I would be interested in yours.

Here is mine: Leave the draft alone and pay players for wins. Pay every player on the winning team $10,000 for each game. Pay them right there at the end of the game so they can go out and blow it that night if they want. It would make it much harder for coaches and GM's to purposefully throw out tank line ups. Their players would rebel. It would also give players something to play for, even when they are out of the playoff hunt at the end of the season. Its not a lot in the overall scheme, but competitive people want to win something when it is there.

I think it would make games this time of year more watchable.

It would cost $150,000 per game but would add an element that would bring in significantly more revenue than it costs. Even if a team just plays rookies and end of bench guys, they are going to give everything thing they have to win, the money will mean more to them than higher paid stars.

 

[pokerface]

This so rediculous. The problem (as always) is there is no hard salary cap in place. So in essence fans want to "fix" one problem while ignoring the other side of the equation. Then, we also ignore the fact that there is always a lottery system in place. There is always a randomness to the draft. Teams are not guaranteed certain exact picks...just a range of picks. Plus what teams are "tanking" anyways? Where is the evidence that superstars are being sat across the board? Some teams are just bad...accept it already. Also, didn't Silver "fix" this tanking "problem" by readjusting the lottery odds? How many times does this issue have to be addressed? Only for fans to still be fixated on this minor thing.

I appreciate the discussion and a separate thread was created. At least the picks watch thread won't be contaminated.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Its a discussion going on around the league now, so I thought I would throw it out here.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

This so rediculous. The problem (as always) is there is no hard salary cap in place. So in essence fans want to "fix" one problem while ignoring the other side of the equation. Then, we also ignore the fact that there is always a lottery system in place. There is always a randomness to the draft. Teams are not guaranteed certain exact picks...just a range of picks. Plus what teams are "tanking" anyways? Where is the evidence that superstars are being sat across the board? Some teams are just bad...accept it already. Also, didn't Silver "fix" this tanking "problem" by readjusting the lottery odds? How many times does this issue have to be addressed? Only for fans to still be fixated on this minor thing.

I appreciate the discussion and a separate thread was created. At least the picks watch thread won't be contaminated.

I completely agree about the salary cap. If you really want parity and a league that is truly competitive you have to make a hard cap. It would be much harder for teams to have these “big 3s” and “big 4s” that we have been seeing and we might actually have like 10 teams with an actual shot at winning the title every year.

 

[Dback Jon]

This so rediculous. The problem (as always) is there is no hard salary cap in place. So in essence fans want to "fix" one problem while ignoring the other side of the equation. Then, we also ignore the fact that there is always a lottery system in place. There is always a randomness to the draft. Teams are not guaranteed certain exact picks...just a range of picks. Plus what teams are "tanking" anyways? Where is the evidence that superstars are being sat across the board? Some teams are just bad...accept it already. Also, didn't Silver "fix" this tanking "problem" by readjusting the lottery odds? How many times does this issue have to be addressed? Only for fans to still be fixated on this minor thing.

I appreciate the discussion and a separate thread was created. At least the picks watch thread won't be contaminated.

Yes - the NBA needs a hard salary cap. Not a luxury tax, but an NFL style cap.

 

[Folster]

Superteams have also contributed greatly to tanking. Once Durant went to GS it made the decision to tank that much easier. If you have no chance to field a team to compete with GS, it makes sense to rebuild. Most GMs are resolved to rebuild while the GAS team rubs its course.

 

[pokerface]

Superteams have also contributed greatly to tanking. Once Durant went to GS it made the decision to tank that much easier. If you have no chance to field a team to compete with GS, it makes sense to rebuild. Most GMs are resolved to rebuild while the GAS team rubs its course.

Interesting point.

 

[JerkFace]

I think a simple fix is just reduce the odds of the bad teams in the lottery. The team with the worst record gets 14 balls (or combinations) the next gets 13 and on down the line. Pick the balls for the top 5 spots instead of just the top 3... I also like the idea of a hard cap but that would take some serious negations with the players association.

 

[Folster]

I think a simple fix is just reduce the odds of the bad teams in the lottery. The team with the worst record gets 14 balls (or combinations) the next gets 13 and on down the line. Pick the balls for the top 5 spots instead of just the top 3... I also like the idea of a hard cap but that would take some serious negations with the players association.

The odds used to be much more fair, but Orlando netted the #1 pick two years in a row, nabbing Shaq and Webber (traded for Penny). Orlando had the worst or close to the worst odds for the 2nd #1 pick, but won the lottery. Teams complained and the odds were tilted even more to the worst teams.

People and teams will bitch regardless of changes.

The biggest problem is that lottery teams are no longer getting polished players like they did in the 80s, and years prior. Players who jumped from HS or one-and-done players are drafted mainly on potential and take years before they can elevate their team if they actually pan out.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm for the wheel concept with the Suns picking first next season.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The odds used to be much more fair, but Orlando netted the #1 pick two years in a row, nabbing Shaq and Webber (traded for Penny). Orlando had the worst or close to the worst odds for the 2nd #1 pick, but won the lottery. Teams complained and the odds were tilted even more to the worst teams.

People and teams will bitch regardless of changes.

The biggest problem is that lottery teams are no longer getting polished players like they did in the 80s, and years prior. Players who jumped from HS or one-and-done players are drafted mainly on potential and take years before they can elevate their team if they actually pan out.

Silver is even talking about getting rid of the one and done situation too. Personally I wouldn’t mind if they went with what the NFL does and force them to play 3 years of college first.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I think a simple fix is just reduce the odds of the bad teams in the lottery. The team with the worst record gets 14 balls (or combinations) the next gets 13 and on down the line. Pick the balls for the top 5 spots instead of just the top 3... I also like the idea of a hard cap but that would take some serious negations with the players association.

Another popular suggestion is no cap on individual players salaries. I guess that's more to combat superteams than say fix the draft lottery, but i do think it'll have an effect.

 

[JS22]

I actually kind of like Zach Lowe's play-in tournament idea:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22542306/zach-lowe-real-possibility-nba-playoffs-play-tournament

Beyond that just give every non-playoff team equal odds at the #1 pick.

 

[SirStefan32]

No top-five picks in consecutive years would be one idea. All lottery teams get equal chance for top picks would be another.

 

[pokerface]

Here is what I'm not getting...What is wrong with the current draft lottery system? What is the problem? What are the goals? One would think with all the talk about tanking that teams would be punished all over the place. What team has been punished by the league? What teams are sitting star players? What team has gained so much through tanking to offset their lack of attendance at games? Tanking teams already get punished.

There is a real danger by the league of being over zealous about some issue that is even hard to define. The danger is killing fan interest in lousy teams. I mean look at our board...If we made the draft completely random would we care as much what teams won or lost every night? The biggest excitement right now is about the draft and our perceived chances in it. If we didn't think we had some "edge" in the draft wouldn't many of us tune out until draft day?

I don't think there is anything wrong with the current system. Bad teams are able to get better without anything being guaranteed to them. The draft order is somewhat random and players themselves are gambles. To over purify the league they are only going to kill interest and entertaiment and STILL worry about the tanking boogyman.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Silver is even talking about getting rid of the one and done situation too. Personally I wouldn’t mind if they went with what the NFL does and force them to play 3 years of college first.

I think there is merit here. Players can declare out of high school and be drafted. But they have to play at least one year in the GLeague. If they go to college they will not be eligible for two years (or maybe three).

This would preserve more roster spots in the nba for veterans. It would solve the one and done hardship stuff AND it would improve the quality of college basketball.

The draft would have solid college players with proven records AND risky high schoolers.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Here is what I'm not getting...What is wrong with the current draft lottery system? What is the problem? What are the goals? One would think with all the talk about tanking that teams would be punished all over the place. What team has been punished by the league? What teams are sitting star players? What team has gained so much through tanking to offset their lack of attendance at games? Tanking teams already get punished.

There is a real danger by the league of being over zealous about some issue that is even hard to define. The danger is killing fan interest in lousy teams. I mean look at our board...If we made the draft completely random would we care as much what teams won or lost every night? The biggest excitement right now is about the draft and our perceived chances in it. If we didn't think we had some "edge" in the draft wouldn't many of us tune out until draft day?

I don't think there is anything wrong with the current system. Bad teams are able to get better without anything being guaranteed to them. The draft order is somewhat random and players themselves are gambles. To over purify the league they are only going to kill interest and entertaiment and STILL worry and the tanking boogyman.

You’re just a tankaholic.
It’s about the teams trying to sell tickets and advertising for non-competitive games. The integrity of competition is lost—-for an increasingly large portion of the league.

Btw. This is a completely separate question from whether thenSuns should tank right now.

I still like my pay the winners idea.

 

[Phrazbit]

No top-five picks in consecutive years would be one idea. All lottery teams get equal chance for top picks would be another.

I worry the consecutive year idea would only exacerbate the problem. A team wouldn't want to "waste" a top 5 season and could gut the team to an unseen extent.

I do like the all non-playoff teams with the same odds idea.

But with the news today about the league talking to the bulls lineups and the mavs routing the nuggets... maybe we're seeing a corner turned. It seems likely we'll have no teams under 20 wins, which is unusual and maybe a sign the crack down is scaring teams from going too crazy.

 

[pokerface]

You’re just a tankaholic

Yeah well... I'm the fan of a lousy team and have hopes of getting out of this mess through the draft. The suns are lucky they still have my interest at all considering their long playoff drought. Take away a lot of the draft incentives and you can wake me after Golden State wins their multiple championships.

 

[pokerface]

I worry the consecutive year idea would only exacerbate the problem. A team wouldn't want to "waste" a top 5 season and could gut the team to an unseen extent.

I do like the all non-playoff teams with the same odds idea.

But with the news today about the league talking to the bulls lineups and the mavs routing the nuggets... maybe we're seeing a corner turned. It seems likely we'll have no teams under 20 wins, which is unusual and maybe a sign the crack down is scaring teams from going too crazy.

What crackdowns?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah well... I'm the fan of a lousy team and have hopes of getting out of this mess through the draft. The suns are lucky they still have my interest at all considering their long playoff drought. Take away a lot of the draft incentives and you can wake me after Golden State wins their multiple championships.

Said in fun.

The Suns got you on the stuff, there is no doubt. It’s what you do to take away the pain of losing basketball. My concern is that when things get better you are going to have a hard time getting off it.

I can see some sort of intervention in your future.

I am sure you say you can quit rooting for the tank any time you choose. But we all know better.

 

[pokerface]

Said in fun.

The Suns got you on the stuff, there is no doubt. It’s what you do to take away the pain of losing basketball. My concern is that when things get better you are going to have a hard time getting off it.

I can see some sort of intervention in your future.

Not really hooked on tanking...I just don't see much other options. If we can't buy our way out of this or draft our way out of this not sure what else there is to do besides kidnapping LeBron or Popovich.

 

[Mainstreet]

I worry the consecutive year idea would only exacerbate the problem. A team wouldn't want to "waste" a top 5 season and could gut the team to an unseen extent.

I do like the all non-playoff teams with the same odds idea.

But with the news today about the league talking to the bulls lineups and the mavs routing the nuggets... maybe we're seeing a corner turned. It seems likely we'll have no teams under 20 wins, which is unusual and maybe a sign the crack down is scaring teams from going too crazy.

Maybe all it took is a strong commissioner to minimize tanking.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Said in fun.

The Suns got you on the stuff, there is no doubt. It’s what you do to take away the pain of losing basketball. My concern is that when things get better you are going to have a hard time getting off it.

I can see some sort of intervention in your future.

I am sure you say you can quit rooting for the tank any time you choose. But we all know better.

Haha. That’s funny. As soon as they show any potential all tankers will be frustrated that they can’t win fast enough.

 

[pokerface]

You’re just a tankaholic.
It’s about the teams trying to sell tickets and advertising for non-competitive games. The integrity of competition is lost—-for an increasingly large portion of the league.

Btw. This is a completely separate question from whether thenSuns should tank right now.

I still like my pay the winners idea.

Is there a mass sit-down of players around the league? I'm not seeing the problem. And players minutes go up and down...good luck monitoring that.