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Zach Allen Signs with Denver
- Thread starter Dayman
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kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
RON_IN_OC
https://www.ronevansrealty.com
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Jetstream Green
Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
You also can't be selective to support a narrative... and being I was not, hence I was confused with his injury later on
Cardsfaninlouky
ASFN Lifer
3 reasons why the Arizona Cardinals let Zach Allen walk in free agency
To the dismay of many in the Red Sea, Zach Allen spurned the Arizona Cardinals for Sean Payton and the Denver Broncos.
SECTION 11
vibraslap
He was probably inspired by the 98,000 Bronco fans at our home games. 50% joking.
So 49,000 Bronco fans. . .
The Cards finally killed Krang.
We all said in the last few months we were going to suck next year right? With Kyler out for a bunch of games and only semi himself when he does return we all pretty much reckoned the ceiling was about 6 wins right? That's pretty much how I recall it from the "Way too early season predictions" thread.
So with that in mind what's the advantage in blowing all our cap bringing in or resigning big money free agents that them hampers our shot at 2024?
We have all criticized the short term roster construction principles of Steve Keim and now we are complaining that we don't have short term roster construction principles.
If it not better to try build up draft capital and retain cap to rollover into 2024 instead of blowing everything on a vain attempt to eek out a couple more wins?
So we win 3-4 games next year instead of 6. What's the big deal?
It's unfortunate because the NFC kinda sucks. The best QB in the division might be Jalen Hurts. Had Kyler not had a late season ACL and Meniscus injury I'm sure the approach to roster building would be different and we could have made a run at it but he did, and next year was a right off from that point.
I thought there was a shot they might try patch the situation through 6 games, eek out a couple of wins with a backup and then try make a run with Kyler. But it was a fans pipe dream really and it's also what Keim would have done.
You can't build a roster on the hope Kyler is back for a certain point. That's when teams rush players back and make things worse.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
If I were GM, I'd target 25 year olds with promise and fill some damn holes.
Not let Allen and Murphy walk.
Dr. Jones
Has No Time For Love
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100% serious
RaisingZona are pure garbage but their article above got me thinking about scheme fit and where Allen's production came from.
Sadly, the thought occurred to me to go back and laboriously look at his 11.5 sacks to see if he thrives in a particular formation or position that might not be available going forward.
2022
Sack 1 - Week 4 - Panthers - 3rd and 10 - 3 man front - 5 rushers - Allen lines up at 0T (Standup)
Sack 2 - Week 5 - Eagles - 3rd and 11 - MUG front (8 men on the line) - 5 rushers - Allen lines up at 5T (Standup)
Sack 2.5 - Week 9 - Seahawks - 3rd and 9 - 3 man front - 5 rushers - Allen lines up at 3T (3 point stance)
Sack 3.5 - Week 10 - Rams - 1st and goal - 4 man front - 4 rushers - Allen lines up at 5T (3 point stance)
Sack 4.5 - Week 12 - Chargers - 1st and 10 - 4 man front - 4 rushers - Allen lines up at 3T (3 point stance)
Sack 5.5 - Week 14 - Patriots - 3rd and 11 - MUG front (7 men on the line) - Allen lines up at 3T (3 point stance)
A lot of Allen's sacks in 2022 were not Allen beating his man and getting to the QB. Many of them were the QB running or getting off his spot so Allen could slide off his block sideways for an easy sack. Only the Panthers and Patriots sacks did he win to get to the QB.
2021
Sack 1 - Week 5 - Niners - 2nd and 16 - 4 man front - 4 rushers - Allen lines up at DE (3 point stance)
Sack 2 - Week 8 - Packers - 1st and 10 - 5 man front - 5 rushers - Allen lines up at DE (3 point stance)
Sack 3 - Week 13 - Bears - 1st and 10 - 4 man front - 4 rushers - Allen lines up at DE (3 point stance)
Sack 4 - Week 14 - Rams - 3rd and 6 - MUG front (6 on the line) - 5 rushers - Allen lined up at 0T (3 point stance)
Like 2022 only 1 of his sacks was gained from beating his man and that was the Niners sack where he pushed McGlinchey back into the QB.
From watching his sacks he's really a pure effort guy. A lot of his production comes from motor and not giving up the play. A very high percentage of his sacks were poor quality where the QB was spooked out of the pocket by somebody else and ran into Allen who up until that point was being blocked fairly easily.
There isn't much there in way of technique or pass rush moves.
A lot of his sack production came out of 5 man or MUG fronts or from a 3 man or 4 man 5T position which you wouldn't expect him to play in a 4 man front. And most of them came out of X and long situations where he knew pass was coming. Of course, this is just his sacks but they are indicative of how he will be achieving his pressures too.
I can easily see the front office running Allen's tape through analytics (or just watching it themselves) and coming back with him being an effort based complimentary piece not worth that money and more suited to a 3-4 scheme.
Sadly, the thought occurred to me to go back and laboriously look at his 11.5 sacks to see if he thrives in a particular formation or position that might not be available going forward.
2022
Sack 1 - Week 4 - Panthers - 3rd and 10 - 3 man front - 5 rushers - Allen lines up at 0T (Standup)
Sack 2 - Week 5 - Eagles - 3rd and 11 - MUG front (8 men on the line) - 5 rushers - Allen lines up at 5T (Standup)
Sack 2.5 - Week 9 - Seahawks - 3rd and 9 - 3 man front - 5 rushers - Allen lines up at 3T (3 point stance)
Sack 3.5 - Week 10 - Rams - 1st and goal - 4 man front - 4 rushers - Allen lines up at 5T (3 point stance)
Sack 4.5 - Week 12 - Chargers - 1st and 10 - 4 man front - 4 rushers - Allen lines up at 3T (3 point stance)
Sack 5.5 - Week 14 - Patriots - 3rd and 11 - MUG front (7 men on the line) - Allen lines up at 3T (3 point stance)
A lot of Allen's sacks in 2022 were not Allen beating his man and getting to the QB. Many of them were the QB running or getting off his spot so Allen could slide off his block sideways for an easy sack. Only the Panthers and Patriots sacks did he win to get to the QB.
2021
Sack 1 - Week 5 - Niners - 2nd and 16 - 4 man front - 4 rushers - Allen lines up at DE (3 point stance)
Sack 2 - Week 8 - Packers - 1st and 10 - 5 man front - 5 rushers - Allen lines up at DE (3 point stance)
Sack 3 - Week 13 - Bears - 1st and 10 - 4 man front - 4 rushers - Allen lines up at DE (3 point stance)
Sack 4 - Week 14 - Rams - 3rd and 6 - MUG front (6 on the line) - 5 rushers - Allen lined up at 0T (3 point stance)
Like 2022 only 1 of his sacks was gained from beating his man and that was the Niners sack where he pushed McGlinchey back into the QB.
From watching his sacks he's really a pure effort guy. A lot of his production comes from motor and not giving up the play. A very high percentage of his sacks were poor quality where the QB was spooked out of the pocket by somebody else and ran into Allen who up until that point was being blocked fairly easily.
There isn't much there in way of technique or pass rush moves.
A lot of his sack production came out of 5 man or MUG fronts or from a 3 man or 4 man 5T position which you wouldn't expect him to play in a 4 man front. And most of them came out of X and long situations where he knew pass was coming. Of course, this is just his sacks but they are indicative of how he will be achieving his pressures too.
I can easily see the front office running Allen's tape through analytics (or just watching it themselves) and coming back with him being an effort based complimentary piece not worth that money and more suited to a 3-4 scheme.
Both massively overrated players.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
The gymnastics you're doing to "prove" this team was right in not re-signing these players is incredible. Considering you'd be doing the same kind of gymnastics to praise the team if they had been re-signed and pointing out why they're actually really good players. Like, the above post was "I amateurishly broke down film to prove just how not good Allen really is" lol Okay, Brit.
PJ1
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Which is why MB said they were having discussions with Allen to try and bring him back? You said you wanted him back and would go as high as $14M. Now just like when we didn’t sign Murphy you change your stance. Now it is Allen wasn’t that good and had lucky sacks that the QB ran into. The Broncos have the same tape and gave him $16M.
It's not gymnastics. Search my posts for how many times I've said JAG Allen or JAG Murphy in posts.
I've always thought they were JAG's, especially Murphy. Allen obviously improved in the last year but was still nowhere near the imaginary status some in this fanbase give him. I wanted to watch where his production came from to see if he suited a 4-3 and to be more informed. You should try it. I think the only reason he got paid what he did was Vance Joseph. Had Vance stayed I don't think anyone else would have paid him that money. He's been a poor run stopper his whole career and at best is an effort pass rusher.
Murphy had a good first half of 2021 and was awful in the 2nd half. Otherwise has been a massive JAG his whole career here. Was awful in the slot and mediocre outside. Was a terrible pick at #33 by Keim. Teams do not give good 25 year old QB's sub $9m deals with incentives.
Honestly, I find it pretty funny that fans think not re-signing these guys is a big deal. Allen is the bigger loss because of JJ retiring and us being weak in that area, he was the best of a bad remaining bunch.
But nobody should be crying in their cornflakes.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Honestly, I find it pretty funny that if we had re-signed these guys, you'd be singing their praises to the heavens. We get it, Brit. We really do understand your POV.
I've literally never said any of that.
I never said I wanted Allen back. I said he was the most important of the free agents we were losing. I've never said I would go as high as $14m either. I said I could see him going for that much in FA because FA is nuts. And I said that BEFORE I watched some of his tape. Having watched it many of his sacks are low quality and come from positions he would only play in a 3-4. Maybe Denver are playing a 3-4? And while Denver do have the same tape they also have Vance Joseph saying "Sign this guy. He's great. Trust me".
I've also never said we should re-sign Murphy or changed my stance. I said this just in Jan about him. Always though he was the ultimate JAG and this fan base was deluded.
I'd be singing the praises of guys I've called JAGs multiple times? No mate.
I know you can't "debate" with throwing insults and creating strawmen but don't start pretending to know what I would say.
What you could do is hit search up there and see how many times I've referred to both as JAGs or average.
Had we signed Allen I would have said it was too much money. Had we signed Murphy I would have said it was a good deal for an average player that could fill a role in a rotation.
ASUCHRIS
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Of course, because if they stayed, you'd be calling them cornerstones.
PJ1
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You absolutely said you hoped we were still in on them when free agency started. You actually said we were still in on them. When Murphy signed a reasonable deal you said we have Marco Wilson and don’t need him. Then you qualified it and said you would have signed him for that money. Now you are saying you never said we should sign him and this fan base is deluded.I mean go look at your post yesterday. Allen’s sacks are low quality? Are his pass blocks low quality too?
I never said that. Show me.
I said yesterday and again today I would have signed Murphy for the money he got as a role player. Part of a rotation. That's all I think he's worth. Which is why I was never bothered about signing him. I said I wouldn't pay him more than $11m when people were saying he might get $16m.
PJ1
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What? “I also never said I would resign Murphy or changed my stance. Always thought he was the ultimate JAG and this fan base was deluded” You follow with “I said yesterday and today I would have signed Murphy for the money he got as a role player” You are all over the place.
No. I'm not all over the place. They are not exclusive things.
1. I always thought Murphy was a JAG. That's all over my posts.
2. Rosters are made up of 50% JAGs.
3. I was never interested in resigning him at the money people here and in the wider NFL said he was going to get.
4. I would have been fine with signing him for the JAG money he got
I'm fine with paying JAG's JAG money. Murphy could have been a 60% snap guy. Come in on certain sub packages as a nickel or dime back. I'd be fine with that at $8.75m.
I'm also completely not worried that we didn't re-sign him.
PJ1
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It was thought to be 11M when he made his comment. Only later did we find the details.
