Zach Allen Signs with Denver

[PJ1]

No. I'm not all over the place. They are not exclusive things.

1. I always thought Murphy was a JAG. That's all over my posts.
2. Rosters are made up of 50% JAGs.
3. I was never interested in resigning him at the money people here and in the wider NFL said he was going to get.
4. I would have been fine with signing him for the JAG money he got

I'm fine with paying JAG's JAG money. Murphy could have been a 60% snap guy. Come in on certain sub packages as a nickel or dime back. I'd be fine with that at $8.75m.

I'm also completely not worried that we didn't re-sign him.

You made the comment when we thought he was signed for $11M after stating we had Wilson and didn’t need him but he could be a number two. You want a JAG to be your number two corner?

 

[BritCard]

You made the comment when we thought he was signed for $11M after stating we had Wilson and didn’t need him but he could be a number two. You want a JAG to be your number two corner?

Yeah because I'd have signed him for $11m too to do exactly the same thing. $8.7m is good value for that role, $11m is ok value.

Lot's of #2 corners are JAGs. We've had a bunch of them ourselves the last 10 years. Personally I'd have kept Marco as #2, drafted a guy in round 2 to be the #1 and kept Murphy round as rookie insurance and slot.

JAG by the way doesn't mean bad. It's average. I guy that can do a job.

 

[PJ1]

Yeah because I'd have signed him for $11m too to do exactly the same thing. $8.7m is good value for that role, $11m is ok value.

Lot's of #2 corners are JAGs. We've had a bunch of them ourselves the last 10 years. Personally I'd have kept Marco as #2, drafted a guy in round 2 to be the #1 and kept Murphy round as rookie insurance and slot.

JAG by the way doesn't mean bad. It's average. I guy that can do a job.

You cover it in every way. You wanted me to show you where you said you wanted to resign them.

A quick look in the free agent thread. kerouac9 says to you "Young guys with upside essentially defines Zack Allen and Byron Murphy"

You respond with "What part of my post suggested other teams aren't looking for the same thing or that we shouldn't resign both of them"

Eventually you told him to feel free to shut up.

 

[BritCard]

You cover it in every way. You wanted me to show you where you said you wanted to resign them.

A quick look in the free agent thread. kerouac9 says to you "Young guys with upside essentially defines Zack Allen and Byron Murphy"

You respond with "What part of my post suggested other teams aren't looking for the same thing or that we shouldn't resign both of them"

Eventually you told him to feel free to shut up.

I'm covering it one way and always have. You can see it in the post I quoted above where I say I wouldn't pay Murphy more than about $11m.

$11m or under = good.

Over that = bad.

Same goes for Allen. For $13m I would be ok. For $15.25m I would not.

This is a concept you live with every day. You would pay $3 for a bag of pasta. You would not pay $30.

 

[BritCard]

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[BritCard]

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[Harry]

Harry any free agents u would sign at this point?

Sorry, too picked over; no penetrators left.

 

[Harry]

Not Harry but I won't be shocked if we sign Rock Ya-Sin.

Personally I like Dalton Risner.

I presumed he meant DL. I do like Risner.

 

[PJ1]

I'm covering it one way and always have. You can see it in the post I quoted above where I say I wouldn't pay Murphy more than about $11m.

$11m or under = good.

Over that = bad.

Same goes for Allen. For $13m I would be ok. For $15.25m I would not.

This is a concept you live with every day. You would pay $3 for a bag of pasta. You would not pay $30.

No you really aren’t. You asked where you ever said you wanted to resign them. You said you never said that. I show it to you and you then qualify it. Sorry you say things and when called on it you pivot. You clearly stated I never said I wanted Allen back. Just wasn’t true.

 

[BritCard]

No you really aren’t. You asked where you ever said you wanted to resign them. You said you never said that. I show it to you and you then qualify it. Sorry you say things and when called on it you pivot. You clearly stated I never said I wanted Allen back. Just wasn’t true.

This is painful man. No, I didn't.

That is in reply to this.

You absolutely said you hoped we were still in on them when free agency started. You actually said we were still in on them. When Murphy signed a reasonable deal you said we have Marco Wilson and don’t need him. Then you qualified it and said you would have signed him for that money. Now you are saying you never said we should sign him and this fan base is deluded.I mean go look at your post yesterday. Allen’s sacks are low quality? Are his pass blocks low quality too?

 

[BritCard]

PFF grades Zach Allen signing as C+ value

"From a broad perspective, Allen has registered one season with more than 30 pressures and has never played a full season in his time in the NFL. 2022 was his best year from a grading perspective, totaling career highs in run-defense grade (67.4) and pass-rush grade (71.6). With this deal, it appears the Broncos expect Allen to continue ascending and become an interior force for them for the next couple of years."

https://www.si.com/nfl/cardinals/analysis/pff-grades-arizona-cardinals-zach-allen-denver-broncos

 

[PJ1]

This is painful man. No, I didn't.

That is in reply to this.

Good Lord, I showed you where you said you wanted to sign them. After you said you never said you wanted to sign them.

 

[BritCard]

Good Lord, I showed you where you said you wanted to sign them. After you said you never said you wanted to sign them.

And I explained there was a price I wanted to sign them for, and a price I didn't want to sign them for. Like 5 times now.

Maybe just except forum posts aren't the best medium for nuance and move on eh?

 

[Stout]

Brit is talking about nuance? C'mon, brother. When pinned down on something you're trying to wriggle out of it by claiming "nuance?" Your opinion runs parallel with what the Cards FO does. That has become clear. It's okay if that's what your opinion is. I think if you just owned that you'd get a lot less grief. Unless you're the one shining beacon of truth and all kinds of posters are just wrong about you and don't get the "nuance" of your posts.

 

[BritCard]

Brit is talking about nuance? C'mon, brother. When pinned down on something you're trying to wriggle out of it by claiming "nuance?" Your opinion runs parallel with what the Cards FO does. That has become clear. It's okay if that's what your opinion is. I think if you just owned that you'd get a lot less grief. Unless you're the one shining beacon of truth and all kinds of posters are just wrong about you and don't get the "nuance" of your posts.

First, if your going to refer to me tag me.

Second, as I pointed out just yesterday there have been many things my opinion runs counter to the team on. Not least of which is Kyler.

Third, feel free to not keep popping up in random conversations saying the exact same thing over and over again like some weird stalker.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

I enjoy the Cardinals and hope they do very well.

 

[AZCB34]

RaisingZona are pure garbage but their article above got me thinking about scheme fit and where Allen's production came from.

Sadly, the thought occurred to me to go back and laboriously look at his 11.5 sacks to see if he thrives in a particular formation or position that might not be available going forward.

2022

Sack 1 - Week 4 - Panthers - 3rd and 10 - 3 man front - 5 rushers - Allen lines up at 0T (Standup)

Sack 2 - Week 5 - Eagles - 3rd and 11 - MUG front (8 men on the line) - 5 rushers - Allen lines up at 5T (Standup)

Sack 2.5 - Week 9 - Seahawks - 3rd and 9 - 3 man front - 5 rushers - Allen lines up at 3T (3 point stance)

Sack 3.5 - Week 10 - Rams - 1st and goal - 4 man front - 4 rushers - Allen lines up at 5T (3 point stance)

Sack 4.5 - Week 12 - Chargers - 1st and 10 - 4 man front - 4 rushers - Allen lines up at 3T (3 point stance)

Sack 5.5 - Week 14 - Patriots - 3rd and 11 - MUG front (7 men on the line) - Allen lines up at 3T (3 point stance)


A lot of Allen's sacks in 2022 were not Allen beating his man and getting to the QB. Many of them were the QB running or getting off his spot so Allen could slide off his block sideways for an easy sack. Only the Panthers and Patriots sacks did he win to get to the QB.


2021

Sack 1 - Week 5 - Niners - 2nd and 16 - 4 man front - 4 rushers - Allen lines up at DE (3 point stance)

Sack 2 - Week 8 - Packers - 1st and 10 - 5 man front - 5 rushers - Allen lines up at DE (3 point stance)

Sack 3 - Week 13 - Bears - 1st and 10 - 4 man front - 4 rushers - Allen lines up at DE (3 point stance)

Sack 4 - Week 14 - Rams - 3rd and 6 - MUG front (6 on the line) - 5 rushers - Allen lined up at 0T (3 point stance)

Like 2022 only 1 of his sacks was gained from beating his man and that was the Niners sack where he pushed McGlinchey back into the QB.


From watching his sacks he's really a pure effort guy. A lot of his production comes from motor and not giving up the play. A very high percentage of his sacks were poor quality where the QB was spooked out of the pocket by somebody else and ran into Allen who up until that point was being blocked fairly easily.

There isn't much there in way of technique or pass rush moves.

A lot of his sack production came out of 5 man or MUG fronts or from a 3 man or 4 man 5T position which you wouldn't expect him to play in a 4 man front. And most of them came out of X and long situations where he knew pass was coming. Of course, this is just his sacks but they are indicative of how he will be achieving his pressures too.

I can easily see the front office running Allen's tape through analytics (or just watching it themselves) and coming back with him being an effort based complimentary piece not worth that money and more suited to a 3-4 scheme.

I have started a GoFundMe on your behalf. The money will either be used for couples counseling if you are in a relationship because it seems like you are ignoring your significant other.

If you are not in a relationship, the money will go to multiple dating sites because it would mean you clearly need someone in your life.

I kid of course but the lengths you go to to make a point is unnerving to say the least

 

[Stout]

First, if your going to refer to me tag me.

Second, as I pointed out just yesterday there have been many things my opinion runs counter to the team on. Not least of which is Kyler.

Third, feel free to not keep popping up in random conversations saying the exact same thing over and over again like some weird stalker.

Oh, I knew you'd see the post. I also don't think you and the team are necessarily apart on KM. I think the team has extreme buyer's remorse right about now.

Third, I'm not stalking you. You're simply proliferating your company line stance in every thread. Hard not to point it out, @BritCard. There, I tagged ya

 

[BritCard]

I have started a GoFundMe on your behalf. The money will either be used for couples counseling if you are in a relationship because it seems like you are ignoring your significant other.

If you are not in a relationship, the money will go to multiple dating sites because it would mean you clearly need someone in your life.

I kid of course but the lengths you go to to make a point is unnerving to say the least

Actually it's work that you should probably have a word with, but as I work for myself I don't hold out much hope!

 

[Harry]

Not sure about the dispute but I agree price wasn’t right

 

[gimpy]

Man, Give it a break.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

I have enjoyed the Cardinals for many years, they are fun.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If I were GM, I'd target 25 year olds with promise and fill some damn holes.

Not let Allen and Murphy walk.

Right. You get to sign players for more than a year. If there are good ones now signing contracts they won’t be avakaibke next offseason. Kinda a simple concept.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Watching the Denver game and Allen is lighting up Burrow. This is a perfect example of drafting a player, developing him at a position of tremendous need and then letting him go to another team who pays him relatively modestly. Allen would have helped the Cardinals immensely this year.

 

[Dback Jon]

Watching the Denver game and Allen is lighting up Burrow. This is a perfect example of drafting a player, developing him at a position of tremendous need and then letting him go to another team who pays him relatively modestly. Allen would have helped the Cardinals immensely this year.

100%.