Broncos 16 Cardinals 13 Thoughts & Roster Ramifications

Russ Smith

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I point this out every year when we play Denver. Ask Bronco fans lots of teams struggle against zone blocking in preaseaon, it's because they're told to be careful because teams are afraid of getting hurt.

Denver has a different OL coach now but same general reputation some people think they're borderline dirty so people believe some teams just tell their DL's I don't care how well the run it, just don't get hurt.
 

gmabel830

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But---the way I see it is 10 DBs and 1 ST (Adams).

I don't think Bethel currently has a ton of value outside of ST in the short-term.. I just don't think he'd be able to hang seeing significant duty in the secondary, but still very hopeful that he'll grow into that role while making major contributions on ST.
 
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Mitch

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I don't think Bethel currently has a ton of value outside of ST in the short-term.. I just don't think he'd be able to hang seeing significant duty in the secondary, but still very hopeful that he'll grow into that role while making major contributions on ST.

Did you see him at FS last night? All over the field making tackles---and he tackles with authority, just what Horton loves. best tackling I've seen from a Cardinal FS in year last night. Plus, he gets to the ball in a hurry.
 

gmabel830

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Did you see him at FS last night? All over the field making tackles---and he tackles with authority, just what Horton loves. best tackling I've seen from a Cardinal FS in year last night. Plus, he gets to the ball in a hurry.

Still don't think he's ready for prime time and would be very worried if we ended up needing to rely on him to consistently play against first team offenses. Like I said, I'm in no way writing the guy off beyond being just a special teams contributor long-term, but it's a huge jump he's making from where he came from to where he is.
 

Cheesebeef

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THanks KRang. So once again the team is weak at OT, OLB, and QB. :thud:

it's really amazing that those three positions continue to not only be our biggest weaknesses, but that we seemingly IGNORE those positions in the draft in the first four rounds every damn year.
 

Russ Smith

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Still don't think he's ready for prime time and would be very worried if we ended up needing to rely on him to consistently play against first team offenses. Like I said, I'm in no way writing the guy off beyond being just a special teams contributor long-term, but it's a huge jump he's making from where he came from to where he is.

I think he's a virtual lock to make the team but yeah on that long throw that Adams tipped away, Bethel was totally out of position, it sure looked like he was responsible for helping Adams over the top there but let the WR get behind him.

Talented kid but obviously a huge leap from where he played college ball.
 

PJ1

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I would rather keep 5 WR if we are going to keep Sampson. He hasn't earned a spot and stunk last night. I. Williams has some talent for sure but doubt they keep him.

Don't believe Haggans has earned a spot either but Brandon Williams didn't step up last night at all. He had looked good in other games. Groves has made the team but does look out of control quite a bit on the field.

Gideon is no match for third and fourth string players so he is gone. I hope Toler isn't cut as he is worth giving more time to heal. I am torn on Adams but I believe I keep him for kick coverage alone.

Bethel and Fleming were great picks and I can't see enough of them.
 

conraddobler

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CKW in my opinion is stone cold QB stupid, I present DA ever starting for us as my evidence to support my opinion.

He's stone stupid IMO on QB's.

Kurt Warner masked a lot of this, well all of this, that and Haley also but after that and without that he's always been QB stupid IMO.
 

Mulli

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CKW in my opinion is stone cold QB stupid, I present DA ever starting for us as my evidence to support my opinion.

He's stone stupid IMO on QB's.

Kurt Warner masked a lot of this, well all of this, that and Haley also but after that and without that he's always been QB stupid IMO.
I present Palko starting for Haley last year just for fun.
 

desertdawg

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Very disappointed with Powell's lack of speed. While playing against third and fourth stringers it wasn't so apparent, but against guys, most of whom will probably make the team, he looked slooooow. Smith, who I figured had zero chance to make the team, looked like Usain (Sp?) Bolt by comparison. I now wouldn't be surprised if Smith beats out Powell, but I really enjoyed watching WP in the PS.

:confused:
 

ASUCHRIS

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Agree with Krang, Feely sucks. Weak leg, and not accurate enough. Disappointed we brought him back.
 

desertdawg

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CKW in my opinion is stone cold QB stupid, I present DA ever starting for us as my evidence to support my opinion.

He's stone stupid IMO on QB's.

Kurt Warner masked a lot of this, well all of this, that and Haley also but after that and without that he's always been QB stupid IMO.
I had some Stone IPAs last night, good beer. :)
 

JeffGollin

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Do you think that was Powell or Powell having to react to the fact that the offensive line wasn't blocking anyone? I remember Edge having to make 1-2 guys miss just to pick up 2-3 yards. Doesn't seem like much has changed.
No coincidence that we didn't see Powell until Young came in for Batiste and everything on offense started to stall?

While speed is nice, you can still be a very good RB without it. (Didn't Emmitt come into the pros running a 4.6)?

The 2 KO returns (one for 44 yards) may be an indicator that the Cards will save a spot for Powell due to his versatility.

Final point - Just when I thought Bethel wasn't Superman this week, I check the game stats & find that he led the team in tackles with 7.
 
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Duckjake

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I present Palko starting for Haley last year just for fun.

I'll raise you a Brodie Croyle.

Matt Leinart, Brian St.Pierre, DeWreck Anderson, Max Hall, Tyler Palko, Brodie Croyle, John Skelton, Kevin Kolb Richard Bartel, Ryan Lindley, a who's who of great NFL QBs to work in the pre season for Arizona.
 

Krangodnzr

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Very disappointed with Powell's lack of speed. While playing against third and fourth stringers it wasn't so apparent, but against guys, most of whom will probably make the team, he looked slooooow. Smith, who I figured had zero chance to make the team, looked like Usain (Sp?) Bolt by comparison. I now wouldn't be surprised if Smith beats out Powell, but I really enjoyed watching WP in the PS.


Powell isn't fast at all; he ran a 4.63 coming out of college. He's the flavor of the month.
 

Mulli

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I'll raise you a Brodie Croyle.

Matt Leinart, Brian St.Pierre, DeWreck Anderson, Max Hall, Tyler Palko, Brodie Croyle, John Skelton, Kevin Kolb Richard Bartel, Ryan Lindley, a who's who of great NFL QBs to work in the pre season for Arizona.
Yep. Genius Haley has done wonders developing QB's
 

WildBB

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It's been a tough pre-season---with only 3 home games in the last 8---this team needs a fast start---but this team is letting off a dubious vibe---the buzz from last year's wins down the stretch seems like a distant memory---

The opener at home against division rival Seattle who went 4-0 in the pre-season and are starting Russell Wilson at QB is shaping up to set the tone for the season. A big W and we are where we left off last season with that home OT win against them and five others down the stretch.

This opener is real important to have any success this year, imo. You have to take them one at a time but you don't want to start a yr. 0-2 because the 2nd game is @ NE.
 

Krangodnzr

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Yep. Genius Haley has done wonders developing QB's

The legend of Todd Haley continues.

The fans are going to run off the best coach in the teams history and then five years later will remember him fondly.

The problem with our QBs is talent NOT who is developing them. The scouting staff is to blame for a lot of problems.
 

desertdawg

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Powell isn't fast at all; he ran a 4.63 coming out of college. He's the flavor of the month.
He doesn't even run full speed when he is rushing anyways. He keeps the defense honest on keeping the edge and not over persuing. He is one shifty ass flavor of the month, I bet he sees some time on the field this month...and the next.
 

john h

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QB (3): Skelton, Kolb, Lindley.

The offense for the entire pre-season was and remains out of sorts. All three QBs struggled with the execution, the timing and the breakdowns in protection.

It makes absolutely no sense to bench the #2 QB in this game, whomever he is and as much as one can respect Rich Bartel, it makes no sense to give him snaps when he is just going to be released anyway...although ironically for a small stretch there Bartel was looking as good as any QB we've seen this summer. Hope he's ok. Classy guy and player.

Lindley came out with far more attempts and playing time in the pre-season, which also makes little sense, seeing how much the top two struggled and were never given a whole half to get things going.

Quite possibly the worst coached, worst handled QB unit in the NFL this pre-season.

RB (4): Wells, Williams, Stephens-Howling, Powell.

Wells ran well---although he was a little slow out of the gates. Powell has made quite a name for himself---and with as dinged up as Hyphen gets, Powell's KO return ability gives him the edge on Alfonso Smith (who will be waiting for a call if and when the Cardinals need him this year).

FB (1): Sherman.

One of the better players on the team even as a sophomore.

OL (8): Batiste, Colledge, Sendlein, Snyder, Massie, Kelemete, Ohrnsberger, Bridges.

Weird handing of Bridges who basically played with the 2nd and 3rd lines the last few games---might be on the way out if the team ever gets off its arse and brings in another tackle. Just weird.

TE (3): King, Heap, Housler.

King and Heap look gimpy and Housler is hurt as well. Right now this unit isn't looking very good at all. Keeping a 4th TE with all the other roster issues would be a classic Whisenhunt move---so add another poor performer this pre-season in there like Dray.

WR (6): Fitzgerald, Roberts, Doucet, Floyd, Byrd, I. Williams.

The team has always like to keep 6 WRs---there was a classic Doucet chew and screw tonight---a great Barnum and Bailey (Wolfley) TD catch by a double teamed Floyd---but we saw a WR actually get behind a defense in Isaiah Williams, a true rarity amongst these birds---which actually may mean he will be cut tomorrow due to the assessment of his whole body of work and his arguing with Whisenhunt on the sidelines. Sampson will probably make the team because they drafted him and they think he's ok on STs when he really is no great shakes there. Drops and fumbles tonight exposed him as a below average NFL WR.

NT (2): Williams, Eason.

Williams and Eason have had good pre-seasons.

DE (4): Dockett, Campbell, Carter, Holliday.

Calling Carter (Wolfley again) the 4th starter and Holliday the old salty dog was amusing and befitting. Ronald Talley was not good the past few weeks.

ILB (4): Lenon, Washington, Bradley, Walker.

Four starting caliber LBers here---wonder if Bradley and/or Walker might get some looks on the outside---both have show good bursts rushing the passer---at least from the inside.

OLB (4): Schofield, Acho, Haggans, Groves.

Groves and Haggans had good games and were active in pursuit, albeit versus 2nd and 3rd stringers---being 13th in line on the waiver wires means that any decent pass rushers who are waived wont make it to the Cardinals. If the Cardinals want to bolster this position they will have to make a trade---which they wont. Brandon Williams showed real difficulty defending the run in this game---and he's not a consistent edge threat.

CB (6): Peterson, Gay, Fleming, Jefferson, Adams, Toler.

Adams has struggled all pre-season in coverage---BUT---the STs coverage teams this pre-season have been awful, as witnessed yet again in this game. Adams HAS to stick, but strictly on STs. Toler looks hampered still. But, with the mergence of Fleming there's time for him to get stronger.

S (5): Wilson, Rhodes, Sanders, Bethel, Johnson.

This kid Bethel is now one of the best tacklers on the team. He was around the ball and finishing plays all game. Sanders is solid---and Johnson needs to get back to full strength.

ST (3): Feely, Leach, Zastudil.

One could argue the pre-season MVPs are: RB William Powell (offense), LB Stewart Bradley (defense) and P Dave Zastudil & S Justin Bethel (special teams).

Wonder if Feely's two misses and shorter than desired kickoffs will have the coaches looking more closely at the waiver wire. Probably not, but it's possible---like last year when they cut Graham.

It's been a tough pre-season---with only 3 home games in the last 8---this team needs a fast start---but this team is letting off a dubious vibe---the buzz from last year's wins down the stretch seems like a distant memory---but it's only the pre-season, right? Many keep thinking the defense will carry the team early---but, when you look at them fundamentally right now (tackling, getting off blocks, covering, etc.), and how weak they have been on the edges, it would not be difficult to imagine a slow start like last year's. Not sure these guys will handle the pressure of having to carry the team this early in the season. Hopefully they can and will. The players are excited about bringing on the full package of blitzes and schemes---but the fundamentals have to be good, regardless of the schemes.

Mitch. I disagree with nothing you posted. My thought are pre-season games are they a good indicator of future success of failure come the real season. Until you get the all your starting lineup on the field at the same time and with the knowledge that these games are now the real thing you really do not know what you have. Some guys who know they will be on the team are not going to be all out. A rookie may make a starter look bad for one reason or the other. Evaluating any one player can be done up to a point but even then the one players play is much effected by those surrounding him who may be rookies or worse. I am sure there are stats comparing pre season records to real season records for every team. I do not know what they are but I never get real excited about our pre season record. I do enjoy watching the rookies trying to make the team giving it everything they have,

I did not get to watch much of the game but a portion of the Bartell play I did see. I was impressed by his arm strength and he looks like he could be a backup in the NFL. Lyndley looked a bit small to me compared to Bartell and I did not like the look in his eyes when he came up to the line of scrimmage but he did throw a couple of good passes. I was really impressed by that juking RB we have. He has some moves like that dead leg move that really is impressive. They come naturally to him it seems. He jukes through the line and does not power through the line. The NFL is a pass first league and there is no room for running teams these days. It does certainly helps to have a couple of good RBs which I think we have but in the end it will be the QB who will make the difference. I would not be surprised that this year will decide the fate of Kevin Kolb. If he does not make a difference this year we need to move on and start drafting QBs with our first pick until we find on. Without a good QB you will never make it to the Super Bowl or likely out of the divisional playoffs.

I do not have high expectations for this year because I have no idea what Skelton or Kolb will do and much will depend on them. Maybe all will depend on them? I do think if Whiz does not have a winning season we will have a change at Head Coach. A really more important change that could be made would be at Rod Graves position if he truly the Wizard behind the curtain pulling the levers.

OK it is time to bring it on. Sink or swim. Walk the walk. Get lucky or just plain old win the game on skill and cunning. Good luck to us all. We have a lot of months ahead of us.
 

conraddobler

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Yep. Genius Haley has done wonders developing QB's

I think that Haley is an idiot.

His only saving grace was having the sense it took to listen to Kurt Warner.

I give credit to both him and CKW for that one, but then again that's about the only thing QB wise that has been wise for this organization in like 2 decades.

Maybe it's just us, cause other than Kurt Warner it's a veritable wasteland for QB's here.
 

Duckjake

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The fans are going to run off the best coach in the teams history and then five years later will remember him fondly.

Ah yes. Jim Fassel. I remember him fondly.
 
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