2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch.

[Lefty]

If the Suns have a chance at Ayton, they need to take him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If the Suns have a chance at Ayton, they need to take him.

I am here too. My big question is who to take next if Ayton is gone.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There are several categories of players that I see in this draft.

1. The players, that when you watch them you think, "Oh my. I am watching something special. This kind of domination is so rare." These players seem to be able to impose their will at any particular given moment. This is Ayton, Young (early in the year) and Bagley.
2. The players where you say "Look at those skills, or size, or speed. There is huge potential there." This is Doncic (skills, size for position), Bamba (size), JJJ (athleticism, size, skills), Carter (size and skills), Mikal Bridges (skills athleticism), and even Sexton (speed, strength).
3. The player that you just know has it, but the injury is a big question mark. Porter Jr.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

14 pts / 9 reb / 4 blocks, I'd take that struggling performance every day of the week

I don’t think we were talking about the same game.

 

[Hoop Head]

I wonder if Doncic was 6'3 or 6'4 if peoples opinion would be different. I think him being 6'8 worries me a little bit. I know he's projected to be a PG but I'd be surprised if he is in the NBA. He may be like Ben Simmons in Philly but I don't know. His position worries me some.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I wonder if Doncic was 6'3 or 6'4 if peoples opinion would be different. I think him being 6'8 worries me a little bit. I know he's projected to be a PG but I'd be surprised if he is in the NBA. He may be like Ben Simmons in Philly but I don't know. His position worries me some.

Yup. He’s a tweener. Simmons can play that position and not create a problem with defensive mismatches because of his athleticism. He can adequately guard guards if need be but he can punish that matchup offensively.

Donicic just doesn’t feel like he’s going to be a floor general... not in the NBA. He’s not going to have the speed to create on offense like he has in Europe (with a not amazing 4.5 assts) but he will be a matchup nightmare either way on the defensive end. If he has to guard guards, they will blow past him and if he’s guarding SF or PF, most of them are either faster/stronger or faster AND Stronger.

Maybe if we didn’t already have Book and Jackson set as wings,I wouldn’t be so dismissive. Maybe if he was a dead eye 3 point shooter, I’d be a little more inclined but all of the above leads me to believe it’s not a great fit and if there are legit high ceiling prospects at C/PF/PG, I’d hope we go there instead of Donicic, at least with the first three picks.

 

[SirStefan32]

Yup. He’s a tweener. Simmons can play that position and not create a problem with defensive mismatches because of his athleticism. He can adequately guard guards if need be but he can punish that matchup offensively.

Donicic just doesn’t feel like he’s going to be a floor general... not in the NBA. He’s not going to have the speed to create on offense like he has in Europe (with a not amazing 4.5 assts) but he will be a matchup nightmare either way on the defensive end. If he has to guard guards, they will blow past him and if he’s guarding SF or PF, most of them are either faster/stronger or faster AND Stronger.

Maybe if we didn’t already have Book and Jackson set as wings,I wouldn’t be so dismissive. Maybe if he was a dead eye 3 point shooter, I’d be a little more inclined but all of the above leads me to believe it’s not a great fit and if there are legit high ceiling prospects at C/PF/PG, I’d hope we go there instead of Donicic, at least with the first three picks.

I agree with your last paragraph, but you are underestimating that kid. Also, 4.5 assists is actually quite amazing considering the way assists are awarded in Europe.

 

[Hoop Head]

Yup. He’s a tweener. Simmons can play that position and not create a problem with defensive mismatches because of his athleticism. He can adequately guard guards if need be but he can punish that matchup offensively.

Donicic just doesn’t feel like he’s going to be a floor general... not in the NBA. He’s not going to have the speed to create on offense like he has in Europe (with a not amazing 4.5 assts) but he will be a matchup nightmare either way on the defensive end. If he has to guard guards, they will blow past him and if he’s guarding SF or PF, most of them are either faster/stronger or faster AND Stronger.

Maybe if we didn’t already have Book and Jackson set as wings,I wouldn’t be so dismissive. Maybe if he was a dead eye 3 point shooter, I’d be a little more inclined but all of the above leads me to believe it’s not a great fit and if there are legit high ceiling prospects at C/PF/PG, I’d hope we go there instead of Donicic, at least with the first three picks.

I agree with your take except for his assists per game. European assists are recorded differently and his 4.5 would easily be 8 in the NBA. Look at Rubio when he played in Europe, he averaged the same as Doncic and in the NBA he averaged 8 or 9 a game. However Rubio is 100% a PG, there's no question about that, while Doncic is a PG in Europe I'd be surprised if he is in the NBA.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I agree with your take except for his assists per game. European assists are recorded differently and his 4.5 would easily be 8 in the NBA. Look at Rubio when he played in Europe, he averaged the same as Doncic and in the NBA he averaged 8 or 9 a game. However Rubio is 100% a PG, there's no question about that, while Doncic is a PG in Europe I'd be surprised if he is in the NBA.

We are starting to see quite a few big PGs right now and I think Doncic will be the next in line. Sure he isn't going to guard PGs, but neither does Simmons or Giannis.

 

[Hoop Head]

We are starting to see quite a few big PGs right now and I think Doncic will be the next in line. Sure he isn't going to guard PGs, but neither does Simmons or Giannis.

If he's not guarding PG's then that puts Booker or Warren on them, which isn't ideal. Jackson would do better, if he's starting at that point, but Doncic isn't a great fit next to Booker in the backcourt. Like Cheese said, if we didn't have SF set with Warren and Jackson then maybe Doncic would be a more attractive option for the Suns but as currently constructed it's not a great fit.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We are starting to see quite a few big PGs right now and I think Doncic will be the next in line. Sure he isn't going to guard PGs, but neither does Simmons or Giannis.

There’s just no comparison between those two guys and Doncic.

Now, someone like Stefan is probably going to rip himself away from his lotion and tissues to say you weren’t comparing Doncic to those guys, so I’ll just head him or you off at that pass.

What allows those two guys to play the point is they can guard anyone and can get by anyone because they’re athletic freaks, which allows them to initiate offense while not being liabilities on D. Doncic doesn’t have anything CLOSE to both of those guys’ next level athleticism, thus when you say Doncic could follow in their footsteps you completely miss why they’re able to do what they do that he can’t.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

If he's not guarding PG's then that puts Booker or Warren on them, which isn't ideal. Jackson would do better, if he's starting at that point, but Doncic isn't a great fit next to Booker in the backcourt. Like Cheese said, if we didn't have SF set with Warren and Jackson then maybe Doncic would be a more attractive option for the Suns but as currently constructed it's not a great fit.

I think Ayton is the best fit, but I believe if we pick 2nd or 3rd and Doncic is on the board we have to take him and make it work. He knows how to play within the flow of the game and is a good shooter and facilitator. He will find a way to fit with the current players on the roster just fine. He is easily the 2nd best prospect in this draft IMO and it would be a bad idea to pass because of conceived fit. Especially when you consider this team is really bad right now and in desperate need for top end talent.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

There’s just no comparison between those two guys and Doncic.

Now, someone like Stefan is probably going to rip himself away from his lotion and tissues to say you weren’t comparing Doncic to those guys, so I’ll just head him or you off at that pass.

What allows those two guys to play the point is they can guard anyone and can get by anyone because they’re athletic freaks, which allows them to initiate offense while not being liabilities on D. Doncic doesn’t have anything CLOSE to both of those guys’ next level athleticism, thus when you say Doncic could follow in their footsteps you completely miss why they’re able to do what they do that he can’t.

Simmons is a good athlete for a guy who is 6'10". If he was a few inches shorter you wouldn't be saying anything about his athleticism. I have said it in the past and I will say it again, I think Doncic is a slightly shorter and slightly less athletic version of Simmons with a good jump shot. He will be a very good player in this league and he is going to make his doubters look silly within his first 2 years in the league IMO.

 

[Chaplin]

Now, someone like Stefan is probably going to rip himself away from his lotion and tissues to say you weren’t comparing Doncic to those guys, so I’ll just head him or you off at that pass.

WTF? I know you think he's crazy for liking Doncic, but don't you think that is taking it a little far?

 

[SirStefan32]

WTF? I know you think he's crazy for liking Doncic, but don't you think that is taking it a little far?

That's what Cheese does. Insults that were clever when we were all in middle school.

 

[Cheesebeef]

WTF? I know you think he's crazy for liking Doncic, but don't you think that is taking it a little far?

To be honest, when he starts crap with me unprovoked on another thread, I’m going to act like a jerk back.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's what Cheese does. Insults that were clever when we were all in middle school.

Lol. Cry me a river you hypocrite.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think Ayton is the best fit, but I believe if we pick 2nd or 3rd and Doncic is on the board we have to take him and make it work. He knows how to play within the flow of the game and is a good shooter and facilitator. He will find a way to fit with the current players on the roster just fine. He is easily the 2nd best prospect in this draft IMO and it would be a bad idea to pass because of conceived fit. Especially when you consider this team is really bad right now and in desperate need for top end talent.

So you just want to continue the trend of building a non-athletic team with almost zero outside shooting save Booker? That makes zero sense to me.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm beginning to think there are no limits as to what can be said on the Suns forum.

Too much cannibalism.

So how is this forum going to attract new posters?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm beginning to think there are no limits as to what can be said on the Suns forum.

Too much cannibalism.

So how is this forum going to attract new posters?

Easy. The Suns get relevant again. Not much excitement for new people to come talk about at this point, not to mention coming into what’s now just a small legion of masochistic diehards that at this point are like a large extended family.

Some you love, some you hate. But family nonetheless.

 

[Mainstreet]

Easy. The Suns get relevant again. Not much excitement for new people to come talk about at this point, not to mention coming into what’s now just a small legion of masochistic diehards that at this point are like a large extended family.

Some you love, some you hate. But family nonetheless.

I don't know Cheese. IMO, it's sort of like boxing, I do not believe in hitting below the belt.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't know Cheese. IMO, it's sort of like boxing, I do not believe in hitting below the belt.

It’s just a message board, Main. Sometimes we take it too seriously (including me).

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

So you just want to continue the trend of building a non-athletic team with almost zero outside shooting save Booker? That makes zero sense to me.

And what does drafting any of the bigs in this draft do for this? Doncic is one of the best shooting prospects in the top 6 or so prospects in this draft. I also don't think athleticism in a huge issue for this team (except maybe at center). Our biggest issue at the moment is a lack of defense (this is due to both personnel and coaching IMO) and outside shooting. Doncic will help with the latter, but we would either need to trade up to get one of the solid defensive bigs or make a trade or free agency signing to bring in a vet to help with the former.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And what does drafting any of the bigs in this draft do for this? Doncic is one of the best shooting prospects in the top 6 or so prospects in this draft. I also don't think athleticism in a huge issue for this team (except maybe at center). Our biggest issue at the moment is a lack of defense (this is due to both personnel and coaching IMO) and outside shooting. Doncic will help with the latter, but we would either need to trade up to get one of the solid defensive bigs or make a trade or free agency signing to bring in a vet to help with the former.

Wha? How is Doncic going to help with the shooting? He’s a 32% three point shooter. At least with a Big you’re not taking up a spot that absolutely NEEDS to be a shooter in today’s game.

You said our biggest problems are defense and outside shooting... but Doncic doesn’t help EITHER of those while every big man at least helps solidify the defense or at least give us a post-game to make the D adjust.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the Suns got the #2 pick I would entertain trading down a pick or two depending on how many players the Suns like within the top 7-8 players.

I'm not sure how this draft should play out after Ayton.

Getting another draft pick gives the Suns more assets to get another early pick or use in trade.