2019 1st round pick is QB Kyler Murray

[RON_IN_OC]

The rules change so defenders cant put all their weight on the qb when going down. Murray will be slippery like soap.

Only in the pocket...when he breaks and runs, he's a runner, not a QB...if/when he gets hit, all bets are off. We'll just have to wait and see how he does

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[RON_IN_OC]

You dont think defenders care about fines and suspensions?

Burfict says hold my beer.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[RON_IN_OC]

If I remember correctly, Brees was injured after they'd drafted Rivers.

Correct...Chargers drafted Rivers, because they just didn't feel shorty Brees could/would take them to the promised land. Brees' injury was more a matter of convenience for the Chargers, for them to cut him.

In all fairness to Brees, his change of scenery and having Payton's system catapulted him to another level. He may very well have underwhelmed in Miami, as he did in San Diego. Payton/Brees has been the perfect marriage.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Carolinacacti]

Learning to avoid big hits is a skill EVERY QB has to learn.

Watch the tape. It has the answers. Murray avoids hits better than almost any QB I've ever watched.

Barry Sanders was 5' 8 and how many games did he miss? Knock on wood I hope he survives.

 

[daves]

"Drew Brees has also stayed fairly injury free."

Totally the reason why the Chargers still have him as their QB! And why Miami didn't sign him.

That's some weak sauce Solar. Brees has played 15-16 games per year for 15 years in a row, and 16 out of the last 17.

I sure hope Andy Isabella is worth a top ten pick, with a third thrown in.

This is an exaggeration, aside from the fact that Isabella doesn't have to be worth as much as the Cardinals spent to get Rosen for this to be the right move. The correct equivalence would be a #15 pick with a third thrown in, or Isabella plus a 5th would have to be worth a top ten pick.

But the bottom line is that if Rosen wasn't the guy to lead the team into the future under Kingsbury's offense, and Murray is, they had to eat the sunk cost, and getting Isabella is a bonus. I get that you disagree with each of these points, but what you wrote above is twisting facts to exaggerate your case.

...dave

 

[Solar7]

That's some weak sauce Solar. Brees has played 15-16 games per year for 15 years in a row, and 16 out of the last 17.


This is an exaggeration, aside from the fact that Isabella doesn't have to be worth as much as the Cardinals spent to get Rosen for this to be the right move. The correct equivalence would be a #15 pick with a third thrown in, or Isabella plus a 5th would have to be worth a top ten pick.

But the bottom line is that if Rosen wasn't the guy to lead the team into the future under Kingsbury's offense, and Murray is, they had to eat the sunk cost, and getting Isabella is a bonus. I get that you disagree with each of these points, but what you wrote above is twisting facts to exaggerate your case.

...dave

My point is, Brees was not healthy. It is not fair to say he was healthy. If Murray goes to another team and plays 15 years of healthy football, that does nothing for the Cardinals.

If Murray isn't the guy to lead the team into the future either, then we've sunk a lot of cost and have priced ourselves out of the QB market for two years.

There's really no point in debating this - Murray fans want everyone to approach this from "oh boy, he's gonna be great," and the realist in me says "oh boy, he's gonna be mediocre." No one is changing my opinion on that, besides Kyler Murray himself.

 

[daves]

Great, it means his tiny frame will never get hit!

Why do you keep putting words in people's mouths when they explicitly stated that of course he will get hit, just not as much as you think? It's not like you to argue against a straw man, Solar.

...dave

 

[Yuma]

Correct...Chargers drafted Rivers, because they just didn't feel shorty Brees could/would take them to the promised land. Brees' injury was more a matter of convenience for the Chargers, for them to cut him.

In all fairness to Brees, his change of scenery and having Payton's system catapulted him to another level. He may very well have underwhelmed in Miami, as he did in San Diego. Payton/Brees has been the perfect marriage.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

FYI, the injury to Brees probably was the beginning of the end for the Coach who was trying to get a non-playoff team to 8-8 so they would not have a losing season. The GM was looking to get a first round pick for Brees, and the injury really took the air out of that. The reason they drafted Rivers wasn't about Brees' height. It was Brees underperforming. The Chargers had Flutie and were really familiar with undersized QBs winning games. Brees started getting better after Rivers was drafted. Had Brees been good right from the start, Rivers would have been on a different NFL team.

 

[daves]

My point is, Brees was not healthy. It is not fair to say he was healthy. If Murray goes to another team and plays 15 years of healthy football, that does nothing for the Cardinals.

It seemed as though your original point was that Brees is injury prone because of his size & playing style. To predict that Murray will get hurt with the Cardinals and go on to success with another team is a bizarrely specific expectation. Any player can get hurt any year. If Murray plays every game for 16 years in a 17 year career, he will have been a spectacular home run draft pick.

If Murray isn't the guy to lead the team into the future either, then we've sunk a lot of cost and have priced ourselves out of the QB market for two years.

Yes we all know this, but that's the risk the team decided to take when they decided that Murray is the guy and Rosen wasn't. Now we have to hope they were right.

There's really no point in debating this -

Yet, here you are....

...dave

 

[Krangodnzr]

FYI, the injury to Brees probably was the beginning of the end for the Coach who was trying to get a non-playoff team to 8-8 so they woulod not have a losing season. The GM was looking to get a first round pick for Brees, and the injury really took the air out of that. The reason they drafted Rivers wasn't about Brees' height. It was Brees underperforming. The Chargers had Flutie and were really familiar with undersized QBs winning games. Brees started getting better after Rivers was drafted. Had Brees been good right from the start, Rivers would have been on a different NFL team.

Yeah it had nothing to do with height. It's a BS argument.

Brees, Wilson, and Mayfield are all proving height is an overrated measuring stick. Stiffs like Haskins, Jones, and Lock arent even close to as good as Murray and yet they were rated closely because they are taller.

 

[Yuma]

Yeah it had nothing to do with height. It's a BS argument.

Brees, Wilson, and Mayfield are all proving height is an overrated measuring stick. Stiffs like Haskins, Jones, and Lock arent even close to as good as Murray and yet they were rated closely because they are taller.

I remember going to a Buffalo VS Chargers game. I don't remember the starting QB for Buffalo, but he was the prototypical QB. Big stud of a QB. That year the Chargers had a good defense and built a solid lead while knocking the starting QB out of the qame. I looked at the clock and told my wife there was too much time left in the game. She commented that we were killing Buffalo. I said, "Watch this guy Flutie. He will probably end up winning this game with the time left." The Chargers barely held on to win that game. Flutie was electric. Probably helped him get in a Chargers uniform later on.

 

[Solar7]

Why do you keep putting words in people mouths when they explicitly started that of course he will get hit, just not as much as you think? It's not like you to argue against a straw man, Solar.

...dave

For weeks I have been bringing up that Murray is going to get hit, and I'm worried about his lack of size making that a huge issue. It's been constantly handwaved away - "nuh-uh, he avoids hits! Look at Russell Wilson!"

All I want is for the Murray lovers to admit it is a concern when a guy is 5'10 and his playing weight is sub-200. All people can point out are WRs who don't touch the ball every play, a few scatback exceptions, and that's it. It is concerning for any player to be that size in this sport. That's just reality. I'm not putting words in anyone's mouths, it's the same fight I've been having for weeks.

It seemed as though your original point was that Brees is injury prone because of his size & playing style. To predict that Murray will get hurt with the Cardinals and go on to success with another team is a bizarrely specific expectation. Any player can get hurt any year. If Murray plays every game for 16 years in a 17 year career, he will have been a spectacular home run draft pick.


Yes we all know this, but that's the risk the team decided to take when they decided that Murray is the guy and Rosen wasn't. Now we have to hope they were right.


Yet, here you are....

...dave

Nope, someone else brought up that Brees has been healthy. He hasn't. It ended his time with his original team. That's indisputable. It's not his playing style, but you can't claim he's always been healthy.

Yeah it had nothing to do with height. It's a BS argument.

Brees, Wilson, and Mayfield are all proving height is an overrated measuring stick. Stiffs like Haskins, Jones, and Lock arent even close to as good as Murray and yet they were rated closely because they are taller.

3 outliers in 20 years - and not even 3, really, since Brees and Mayfield are 6'0 or more, does not mean "height is overrated." Silly argument. But one you've kept repeating.

 

[Solar7]

I remember going to a Buffalo VS Chargers game. I don't remember the starting QB for Buffalo, but he was the prototypical QB. Big stud of a QB. That year the Chargers had a good defense and built a solid lead while knocking the starting QB out of the qame. I looked at the clock and told my wife there was too much time left in the game. She commented that we were killing Buffalo. I said, "Watch this guy Flutie. He will probably end up winning this game with the time left." The Chargers barely held on to win that game. Flutie was electric. Probably helped him get in a Chargers uniform later on.

Rob Johnson.

But he was terrible. People already knew what Flutie was at the time. He was fun to watch and was a max effort kind of person that you wanted to root for. But he was very limited in what he could do.

 

[GatorAZ]

That's some weak sauce Solar. Brees has played 15-16 games per year for 15 years in a row, and 16 out of the last 17.


This is an exaggeration, aside from the fact that Isabella doesn't have to be worth as much as the Cardinals spent to get Rosen for this to be the right move. The correct equivalence would be a #15 pick with a third thrown in, or Isabella plus a 5th would have to be worth a top ten pick.

But the bottom line is that if Rosen wasn't the guy to lead the team into the future under Kingsbury's offense, and Murray is, they had to eat the sunk cost, and getting Isabella is a bonus. I get that you disagree with each of these points, but what you wrote above is twisting facts to exaggerate your case.

...dave

Kliff had months to break down Rosen’s film and had a few weeks to work with him and get to know eachother. If he felt Murray was that much of an upgrade we had to do it. I’m at peace with it.

I heard Keim’s answer on 98.7 and he fumbled around the Rosen question. Just a miscalculation in that aspect of how it went down.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Kliff had months to break down Rosen’s film and had a few weeks to work with him and get to know eachother. If he felt Murray was that much of an upgrade we had to do it. I’m at peace with it..

Yup, this. If anyone knows what will fit his system it has to be Kliff. If he signed off on this it had to be done. Otherwise why hire Kliff?

 

[daves]

Learning to avoid big hits is a skill EVERY QB has to learn.

Watch the tape. It has the answers. Murray avoids hits better than almost any QB I've ever watched.

Great, it means his tiny frame will never get hit!

Why do you keep putting words in people's mouths when they explicitly stated that of course he will get hit, just not as much as you think?

I'm not putting words in anyone's mouths

Kinda looks like you are. You're creating an absurd straw man representation of what other people are saying, then ranting about how absurd it is.

Nope, someone else brought up that Brees has been healthy. He hasn't. It ended his time with his original team. That's indisputable. It's not his playing style, but you can't claim he's always been healthy.

You brought up Brees as an example of a small QB who has been injured. Over a 17-year career, he's been one of the least-injured QBs in the league. THAT'S indisputable.

3 outliers in 20 years - and not even 3, really, since Brees and Mayfield are 6'0 or more, does not mean "height is overrated." Silly argument. But one you've kept repeating.

Actually, that's an argument i've never made.

...dbs

 

[Dante]

Rich Eisen Show‏Verified account @RichEisenShow

Steve Keim told us there is language in Kyler Murray's contract about him possibly leaving the Cardinals to go back to the Oakland Athletics. "there's always going to be some protection."

 

[JCSunsfan]

At some point in his career, he will play baseball. I am convinced. It will always be a "what if" nagging in the back of his mind.

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

The rules change so defenders cant put all their weight on the qb when going down. Murray will be slippery like soap.

Ehh ever heard of the offensive lineman falling on the Qb or being driven back into the Qb there are a hell of a lot of ways to "fall" on the Qb not necessarily by the defeender

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

FYI, the injury to Brees probably was the beginning of the end for the Coach who was trying to get a non-playoff team to 8-8 so they would not have a losing season. The GM was looking to get a first round pick for Brees, and the injury really took the air out of that. The reason they drafted Rivers wasn't about Brees' height. It was Brees underperforming. The Chargers had Flutie and were really familiar with undersized QBs winning games. Brees started getting better after Rivers was drafted. Had Brees been good right from the start, Rivers would have been on a different NFL team.

Ya mean kinda like Rosen oops just had to put that in there

 

[Krangodnzr]

For weeks I have been bringing up that Murray is going to get hit, and I'm worried about his lack of size making that a huge issue. It's been constantly handwaved away - "nuh-uh, he avoids hits! Look at Russell Wilson!"

All I want is for the Murray lovers to admit it is a concern when a guy is 5'10 and his playing weight is sub-200. All people can point out are WRs who don't touch the ball every play, a few scatback exceptions, and that's it. It is concerning for any player to be that size in this sport. That's just reality. I'm not putting words in anyone's mouths, it's the same fight I've been having for weeks.


Nope, someone else brought up that Brees has been healthy. He hasn't. It ended his time with his original team. That's indisputable. It's not his playing style, but you can't claim he's always been healthy.


3 outliers in 20 years - and not even 3, really, since Brees and Mayfield are 6'0 or more, does not mean "height is overrated." Silly argument. But one you've kept repeating.

Your argument would hold merit if teams were routinely giving guys who are 6'0 and below a chance.

Teams havent really, so it actually drives UP their success rate.

It's a flawed argument. The success rate of 6'0 and below QBs is like 50%!!!!

 

[Solar7]

Kinda looks like you are. You're creating an absurd straw man representation of what other people are saying, then ranting about how absurd it is.



You brought up Brees as an example of a small QB who has been injured. Over a 17-year career, he's been one of the least-injured QBs in the league. THAT'S indisputable.


Actually, that's an argument i've never made.

...dbs

You and I don't need to argue more about Kyler getting hit anymore then. Sounds like you agree he will get popped but you think it will be less than others.

I didn't bring up Brees. @Cardiac did. What is not indisputable is that his injury is what led to him having to leave the team, and ending up with only two teams interested in making him an offer. All of this is kind of pointless, I mainly think Kyler is going to get hurt as a fully open runner.

Regarding the argument, that was a response to Krang, not you.

 

[Solar7]

Your argument would hold merit if teams were routinely giving guys who are 6'0 and below a chance.

Teams havent really, so it actually drives UP their success rate.

It's a flawed argument. The success rate of 6'0 and below QBs is like 50%!!!!

Your assertion that no one is "getting a chance" is absolutely silly. Short QBs are on rosters, are able to play in practice, and preseason. Unless "getting a chance" means starting a full season, I don't know what to say to you.

Troy Smith: Won the Heisman, was 5'11, started 8 career games. Wasn't any good.
Case Keenum: 6'1, started 54 career games. The verdict? Mediocre starter/backup tier.
Seneca Wallace: 5'11, 25 games started, not very good.
Michael Vick: 6'0, 115 starts, got hurt, tantalizing but failed player.
Johnny Manziel: 6'0, started plenty of games, not good.
Rex Grossman: 6'1, not very good.
Ty Detmer: 6'0, 25 games started, not very good.

I can keep going. These guys all got their chances. They didn't do much of worth with it. That's why Russell and Drew are outliers.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Living in Seattle I watch alot of Russ and he is Floyd Mayweather-like in his ability to avoid big hits

 

[Krangodnzr]

Your assertion that no one is "getting a chance" is absolutely silly. Short QBs are on rosters, are able to play in practice, and preseason. Unless "getting a chance" means starting a full season, I don't know what to say to you.

Troy Smith: Won the Heisman, was 5'11, started 8 career games. Wasn't any good.
Case Keenum: 6'1, started 54 career games. The verdict? Mediocre starter/backup tier.
Seneca Wallace: 5'11, 25 games started, not very good.
Michael Vick: 6'0, 115 starts, got hurt, tantalizing but failed player.
Johnny Manziel: 6'0, started plenty of games, not good.
Rex Grossman: 6'1, not very good.
Ty Detmer: 6'0, 25 games started, not very good.

I can keep going. These guys all got their chances. They didn't do much of worth with it. That's why Russell and Drew are outliers.

How many 6'1 and greater QBs failed to make it over that time?


95% probably. So I'm still right.

Going back to TY DETMER? TY DETMER? That's a long time. And almost half of those guys you listed were still looked at mainly as back ups (Smith, Keenum, Wallace) but got PT because the QBs in front of them got hurt or sucked.