Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

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I wish I had some idea how much ego Bradley Beal suffers from, so I could guess how resistant he'll be (if at all) if coach wants him to come off the bench. Hope he's like Danny Manning about that. (Ref. coach Paul Westphal making Manning and Dan Majerle come off the bench in 1994-95. They acted like professionals about it.)
 
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Chaplin

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I wish I had some idea how much ego Bradley Beal suffers from, so I could guess how resistant he'll be (if at all) if coach wants him to come off the bench. Hope he's like Danny Manning about that. (Ref. coach Paul Westphal making Manning and Dan Majerle come off the bench in 1994-95. They acted like professionals about it.)
Beal isn't coming off the bench.
 

Covert Rain

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What is your justification for that? The reasons are weak for the most part.

I just don't see the Suns paying 50m+ for a bench player.
Based on what? Show me all of these teams who have 3 guards in the starting lineups that has had sustained success winning titles? Also, I didn't say it was realistic if money is the underlying factor. However, that's on the Suns then. If they are making lineup decisions based on how much a guy is getting paid verses what is best for the team? They deserve the results.
 

Chaplin

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Based on what? Show me all of these teams who have 3 guards in the starting lineups that has had sustained success winning titles? Also, I didn't say it was realistic if money is the underlying factor. However, that's on the Suns then. If they are making lineup decisions based on how much a guy is getting paid verses what is best for the team? They deserve the results.
It is what it is. How many $50m + players in the league are coming off the bench?

I'm not saying I think Beal SHOULD start, I'm saying he WILL. Whether that is what's best for the team is debatable. Beal is a good dude, he seems like he'd be ok with it, but it really isn't up to him. Maybe seeing what KD did in the Olympics changes some minds -- but Beal isn't the one that is going to make that decision.
 

Covert Rain

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It is what it is. How many $50m + players in the league are coming off the bench?

I'm not saying I think Beal SHOULD start, I'm saying he WILL. Whether that is what's best for the team is debatable. Beal is a good dude, he seems like he'd be ok with it, but it really isn't up to him. Maybe seeing what KD did in the Olympics changes some minds -- but Beal isn't the one that is going to make that decision.
Agree. I think we are saying the same thing. I have never seen a team in the NBA have sustained success playing 3 guards. Now factor in we play heavy doses of KD being the biggest guy on the court. That just spells disaster to me except in small doses. Small ball simply isn't title contending basketball for 99% of the league.
 
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It is what it is. How many $50m + players in the league are coming off the bench?

I'm not saying I think Beal SHOULD start, I'm saying he WILL. Whether that is what's best for the team is debatable. Beal is a good dude, he seems like he'd be ok with it, but it really isn't up to him. Maybe seeing what KD did in the Olympics changes some minds -- but Beal isn't the one that is going to make that decision.
I have no idea. I know only that Mat Ishbia is not Robert Sarver. Y'see, I concluded years ago why the 2015-16 SUns (or 2014-15, if it was that year) did something so absurd as to start three small guards (Dragic, Bledsoe, Thomas). I believe it was because Sarver saw Thomas as his shiny new business investment, and insisted on displaying that investment front and center. I trust Mr. Ishbia to have enough sense to stay out of his coach's way should the coach want Beal to lead the bench.
 

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Agree. I think we are saying the same thing. I have never seen a team in the NBA have sustained success playing 3 guards. Now factor in we play heavy doses of KD being the biggest guy on the court. That just spells disaster to me except in small doses. Small ball simply isn't title contending basketball for 99% of the league.
One could fudge the language and say that Book is a wing or even a smallish Small Forward, but I don't think it's as clear cut as saying it's "playing 3 guards" especially when having those 3 guards on the floor at the end of the game with KD could result in more wins than if we didn't.

It's hard for me to accept that the Suns would be better off without Beal on the court at the end of a close game. If Jones is there as well, then I can't see any reason why we wouldn't have those 3 guards in at the same time.

We hear it all the time, but it doesn't matter who starts, it's who finishes. KD was the epitome of that in the Olympics.
 

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I have no idea. I know only that Mat Ishbia is not Robert Sarver. Y'see, I concluded years ago why the 2015-16 SUns (or 2014-15, if it was that year) did something so absurd as to start three small guards (Dragic, Bledsoe, Thomas). I believe it was because Sarver saw Thomas as his shiny new business investment, and insisted on displaying that investment front and center. I trust Mr. Ishbia to have enough sense to stay out of his coach's way should the coach want Beal to lead the bench.
I think that is flawed comparison because there is no question that Dragic, Bledsoe and Thomas were guards, and outside of Goran, really small. Book at least has some size to him -- sure, he's 6'6", but if we had a 6'7" or 6'8" starting small forward, does the difference of an inch or two matter all that much?

I think pigeonholing Book as a "guard" is doing him a disservice. He is a highly skilled wing in today's game.
 

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I think that is flawed comparison because there is no question that Dragic, Bledsoe and Thomas were guards, and outside of Goran, really small. Book at least has some size to him -- sure, he's 6'6", but if we had a 6'7" or 6'8" starting small forward, does the difference of an inch or two matter all that much?

I think pigeonholing Book as a "guard" is doing him a disservice. He is a highly skilled wing in today's game.

No one considers Book a wing. No one.
 

95pro

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I wish I had some idea how much ego Bradley Beal suffers from, so I could guess how resistant he'll be (if at all) if coach wants him to come off the bench. Hope he's like Danny Manning about that. (Ref. coach Paul Westphal making Manning and Dan Majerle come off the bench in 1994-95. They acted like professionals about it.)

Money aside, just looking at who will have the ball a good amout of time now that we have pg's, and who the primary stars are (KD/Book), staggering the lineup with Beal going to work with the second unit could mean there's littledrop off in scoring punch when Book and KD are in foul trouble or need rest. It would make all three of them have more impact by separating their time on the court together. With less than 5 minutes in the game I'd expect all three to be on court to finish.
 

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One could fudge the language and say that Book is a wing or even a smallish Small Forward, but I don't think it's as clear cut as saying it's "playing 3 guards" especially when having those 3 guards on the floor at the end of the game with KD could result in more wins than if we didn't.

It's hard for me to accept that the Suns would be better off without Beal on the court at the end of a close game. If Jones is there as well, then I can't see any reason why we wouldn't have those 3 guards in at the same time.

We hear it all the time, but it doesn't matter who starts, it's who finishes. KD was the epitome of that in the Olympics.
But he isn't. Book is a SG. I can call him a sandwich, but it doesn't make him a Deli special. Also, closing a game with a few minutes to go is something completely different. You are not depending on that for a huge chunk of the rotation. KD was great in the Olympics. It's not the NBA. I am not saying you wouldn't have all 3 closing games.
 
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I think that is flawed comparison because there is no question that Dragic, Bledsoe and Thomas were guards, and outside of Goran, really small. Book at least has some size to him -- sure, he's 6'6", but if we had a 6'7" or 6'8" starting small forward, does the difference of an inch or two matter all that much?
I note that 6'6" is his listed height. I've heard that he's actually 6'5". After Charles Barkley, I never trusted or paid attention to listed heights.
 

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If Beal, starts, I firmly believe Suns are hurting themselves. Three shooters all trying to be alpha scorers with limited defense. I never really felt last season like the three particularly took pressure off each other or created space for each other. Maybe it was the lack of a true PG. Maybe they'll give Beal 5 minutes early to massage his $50 million ego, then bring him in 2nd quarter. Besides, the bench mob could sure use someone of Beal's scoring abilities especially against other benches. To me it's the only logical choice.
 

Phrazbit

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It is what it is. How many $50m + players in the league are coming off the bench?

I'm not saying I think Beal SHOULD start, I'm saying he WILL. Whether that is what's best for the team is debatable. Beal is a good dude, he seems like he'd be ok with it, but it really isn't up to him. Maybe seeing what KD did in the Olympics changes some minds -- but Beal isn't the one that is going to make that decision.


If we’re starting Jones then Beal shouldn’t start, the lineup doesn’t make much sense and defensively would be a bit of a mess.

Beal would hardly be there first overpaid player to see his role reduced.
 

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It's not easy. Going to be interesting to see the lineups and the chemistry. Hope coach Bud is up for this.

Hope to see Oso get regular minutes!
 

Chaplin

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If we’re starting Jones then Beal shouldn’t start, the lineup doesn’t make much sense and defensively would be a bit of a mess.

Beal would hardly be there first overpaid player to see his role reduced.
LOL

Here we go. Guess we shouldn't have put him on Zion last year then, even though he did a good job.
 

Chaplin

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I note that 6'6" is his listed height. I've heard that he's actually 6'5". After Charles Barkley, I never trusted or paid attention to listed heights.
Charles Barkley isn't the greatest comparison. And if you aren't going to go by listed height then your argument fails because there is no way for anyone to disprove anything you say.

KD's listed height is 6'11" but I heard he's 7'6", so...
 

Chaplin

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Still waiting for someone to tell me why Book can't play the SF position. If Grayson can do it, then Book can do it. But wait, you say Grayson was a shooting guard? Then how did we have the best starting 5 in the league with Book, Grayson and Beal in the starting lineup? Grayson's LISTED height is 6'4"!!
 

Covert Rain

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Still waiting for someone to tell me why Book can't play the SF position. If Grayson can do it, then Book can do it. But wait, you say Grayson was a shooting guard? Then how did we have the best starting 5 in the league with Book, Grayson and Beal in the starting lineup? Grayson's LISTED height is 6'4"!!
Anybody can play any position. Doesn't mean it's the most effective usage. Can you tell us why you think that is more effective when history says guys playing out of position or playing small ball typically isn't? Devin because of the smaller rotations ended up last year on guys bigger than him and it was his worst defensive ratings since his 4th year in the league. He also committed the 4th highest number of personal fouls in his career. He basically played the entire year out of position.
 
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ASUCHRIS

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If we’re starting Jones then Beal shouldn’t start, the lineup doesn’t make much sense and defensively would be a bit of a mess.

Beal would hardly be there first overpaid player to see his role reduced.
Kellen said it's not going to happen...it's not going to happen.
 

Chaplin

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Anybody can play any position. Doesn't mean it's the most effective usage. Can you tell us why you think that is more effective when history says guys playing out of position or playing small ball typically isn't?
Interesting choice of words. Again, we were amongst the best starting five in the NBA last season.

As a comparison, look at the Milwaukee Bucks that beat us in the Finals.

They started Kris Middleton at 6'7" and PJ Tucker at 6'5" (alongside Giannis, Brook and Jrue). Granted, Tucker is a different kind of player, but Middleton is only an inch taller than Book. And Beal proved last year he could defend bigger players.

That's just an example, but they did win the title.

And please, I'll repeat, I'm not saying Beal SHOULD start, I'm saying he WILL. Whether that is good or not is another debate, and one I'm sure we're going to have after week 1.
 

Covert Rain

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Interesting choice of words. Again, we were amongst the best starting five in the NBA last season.

As a comparison, look at the Milwaukee Bucks that beat us in the Finals.

They started Kris Middleton at 6'7" and PJ Tucker at 6'5" (alongside Giannis, Brook and Jrue). Granted, Tucker is a different kind of player, but Middleton is only an inch taller than Book. And Beal proved last year he could defend bigger players.

That's just an example, but they did win the title.
OK. that doesn't mean much. We have seen small ball play out before. Is it fun? Sure. Also, height doesn't always determine best position. Skill set is a huge factor.
 
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