Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[Suns_fan69]

Robert Williams III is reportedly available, and makes less than Allen.

When he's healthy he's a legitimate difference maker on defense and rim runner on offense. But, he's rarely healthy.

 

[Mainstreet]

Robert Williams III is reportedly available, and makes less than Allen.

When he's healthy he's a legitimate difference maker on defense and rim runner on offense. But, he's rarely healthy.

If healthy, Robert Williams is attractive because he would bring a tough edge to the Suns, something they sorely need.

I understand other teams are looking at him as well.

 

[Hoop Head]

Robert Williams III is reportedly available, and makes less than Allen.

When he's healthy he's a legitimate difference maker on defense and rim runner on offense. But, he's rarely healthy.

The main issue is health. I think there's a GM willing to gamble a pick on him also. He'd be a great pick up for OKC provided the Thunder can make the financials work. They aren't restricted by tax aprons and have a plethora of picks still.

For the Suns though, a team that is rarely healthy, that's a real gamble. If the Suns believed he was their Rasheed Wallace then make it happen but in reality whoever thinks that now should probably get a pink slip.

 

[Mainstreet]

The main issue is health. I think there's a GM willing to gamble a pick on him also. He'd be a great pick up for OKC provided the Thunder can make the financials work. They aren't restricted by tax aprons and have a plethora of picks still.

For the Suns though, a team that is rarely healthy, that's a real gamble. If the Suns believed he was their Rasheed Wallace then make it happen but in reality whoever thinks that now should probably get a pink slip.

I don't know, three out of three ain't bad.

 

[Hoop Head]

We have probably been going through the same list of players and getting the same results. I don't want to trade Nurkic for Zach Collins, though. The Suns need all the big men they can get. However, Allen for Olynyk should work, but he is already 33.

I'm in agreement, it's looking like the Suns may have underestimated the dollar amount of the contracts needed.

I couldn't even find a good trade for Daniel Theis anticipating the Suns might take back another player.

If Collins was available without a pick or even just swap rights then I'd make that Nurkic deal. I agree we need more bigs but that would strengthen our starters while allowing us to continue shopping for a quality backup. I think it could open more doors since a stretch big wouldn't be as much of a necessity if we had Collins since he's a true stretch big. Adding more of an interior 4/5 would be ok then.

I'm sure we've looked at similar lists. If Olynyk were 3 years younger then I'd push for that. As is, he's on the wrong side of 30 and has slowed down. He's not as capable of playing PF as he once was.

 

[Mainstreet]

If Collins was available without a pick or even just swap rights then I'd make that Nurkic deal. I agree we need more bigs but that would strengthen our starters while allowing us to continue shopping for a quality backup. I think it could open more doors since a stretch big wouldn't be as much of a necessity if we had Collins since he's a true stretch big. Adding more of an interior 4/5 would be ok then.

I'm sure we've looked at similar lists. If Olynyk were 3 years younger then I'd push for that. As is, he's on the wrong side of 30 and has slowed down. He's not as capable of playing PF as he once was.

I understand your thinking about Zach Collins, but the Suns interior defense is terrible. It still leaves the Suns looking for a defensive big man less some assets.

 

[Mainstreet]

@Hoop Head

Jonas Valančiūnas of the Wizards is interesting, but I always come up short of an extra player I'd like.

 

[Hoop Head]

@Hoop Head

Jonas Valančiūnas of the Wizards is interesting, but I always come up short of an extra player I'd like.

Jonas is no better than Nurkic, IMO. He's more of an interior presence but can't pass at all. As a backup I'm not sure he'd help much since I believe we need someone who can play with Nurkic and Jonas definitely could not.

Jonas is on a good contract though. $9.9 million this year, $10.4 million next year, and $10 million even in 26-27 but that last season isn't guaranteed.

If we could swing 2 deals somehow, bringing in Collins and Jonas then I'd like our frontcourt a lot more. Collins has experience playing with bigs and is someone who can stretch the floor. So there would be more options. Unfortunately I don't see how the Suns could pull that off unless a 3rd team was involved to receive Grayson, sending someone to Washington. We don't have a salary other than Grayson that would work financially fod Jonas. Okogie and Royce both fall short by a few hundred thousand. I could see Washington being interested in Okogie since they could free up money this off-season that Valenciunas is owes.

 

[Mainstreet]

Jonas is no better than Nurkic, IMO. He's more of an interior presence but can't pass at all. As a backup I'm not sure he'd help much since I believe we need someone who can play with Nurkic and Jonas definitely could not.

Jonas is on a good contract though. $9.9 million this year, $10.4 million next year, and $10 million even in 26-27 but that last season isn't guaranteed.

If we could swing 2 deals somehow, bringing in Collins and Jonas then I'd like our frontcourt a lot more. Collins has experience playing with bigs and is someone who can stretch the floor. So there would be more options. Unfortunately I don't see how the Suns could pull that off unless a 3rd team was involved to receive Grayson, sending someone to Washington. We don't have a salary other than Grayson that would work financially fod Jonas. Okogie and Royce both fall short by a few hundred thousand. I could see Washington being interested in Okogie since they could free up money this off-season that Valenciunas is owes.

I can't believe the players union approved the new CBA agreement. Maybe a third team could be involved.

At least the Suns are privy to what players are available.

 

[Mainstreet]

@Hoop Head

Another idea, how about trade Grayson Allen to Detroit for Isaiah Stewart where Allen gets traded to a third team.

I think Stewart can play some 4/5 for Phoenix.

 

[Hoop Head]

@Hoop Head

Another idea, how about trade Grayson Allen to Detroit for Isaiah Stewart where Allen gets traded to a third team.

I think Stewart can play some 4/5 for Phoenix.

I doubt the Suns would go near Stewart. Didn't he beat up Eubanks last year pregame? I know Eubanks is gone but that screams questionable character at best. So I wouldn't even entertain that notion.

 

[Hoop Head]

I can't believe the players union approved the new CBA agreement. Maybe a third team could be involved.

At least the Suns are privy to what players are available.

I think the top tier players influenced this deal and so did midlevel teams. The starters and stars won't see a big decrease in their salaries. Non tax teams won't mind dropping in occasionally if needed but I think it's clear now that a teams path to success is not paying the tax bill regularly, see Golden State and LeBron teams the last decade. The ramifications of staying in the tax are unavoidable. Players will need to choose personal paydays or professional success. Getting both will be hard for any length of time. All stars will still paid and large markets will still spend.

The All-Stars will get paid regardless. Teams will find a way to pay them. It's the third of fourth guys who will need to take cuts or find new homes. Teams won't pay them as quick or as often. The days of Ayton and MPJ getting max extensions. They won't have the same leverage as before. There should also be more parity since there's real damage done now by staying in the tax. Teams won't want to give up real value. Some role players and lesser stars will take cuts in pay as well, see the Knicks or even Tyus Jones. Guys need to give up also, not just teams. Once you made a few hundred million though, would you rather have a good teammate or another $5-10 million in the bank?

It sucks as a Suns fan with an owner willing and capable of spending but I truly believe that less Suns fans would have issues if Sarver or Colangelo owned the team when the new CBA was approved. I understand the frustration but having a billionaire owner willing to spend isn't going to change my views because we could benefit. The foolish spending got us in this mess. It will take some time for normalcy to be restored. Ill take this last summer over the crazy increase summer when KD joined the Warriors and guys like Timofee Mozgov signed for $20m a year.
.

 

[Mainstreet]

I doubt the Suns would go near Stewart. Didn't he beat up Eubanks last year pregame? I know Eubanks is gone but that screams questionable character at best. So I wouldn't even entertain that notion.

The Suns might want to shed the good guy image. It hasn't helped them much.

This is where a player like Stewart might toughen them up.

 

[Yuma]

Robert Williams III is reportedly available, and makes less than Allen.

When he's healthy he's a legitimate difference maker on defense and rim runner on offense. But, he's rarely healthy.

Is Allen ALWAYS available? I know he had family issues, but it feels like he's been unavailable more than available this year.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Is Allen ALWAYS available? I know he had family issues, but it feels like he's been unavailable more than available this year.

Allen's played 12 of 16 games this year, 2 games for his first child birth, 2 games for right hamstring soreness.

Last 4 seasons he's played 75, 72, 66, 50 games, so he's had some injury issues earlier but last few seasons generally been pretty good.

Williams is... less good. Last 4 seasons he's played 6, 35, 61, 52.

 

[Yuma]

Allen's played 12 of 16 games this year, 2 games for his first child birth, 2 games for right hamstring soreness.

Last 4 seasons he's played 75, 72, 66, 50 games, so he's had some injury issues earlier but last few seasons generally been pretty good.

Williams is... less good. Last 4 seasons he's played 6, 35, 61, 52.

Thanks!

 

[Muggz]

I doubt the Suns would go near Stewart. Didn't he beat up Eubanks last year pregame? I know Eubanks is gone but that screams questionable character at best. So I wouldn't even entertain that notion.

This is exactly what this team needs, someone dropping bodies in the tunnel. I want every team we play on their very best behavior, scared to death to mess around.
Sadly the guy I want to play the 4/5 for us doesn't even exist. Even if he did there is no chance in hell of us wiggling a deal for him.
What would we get back for Nurk? Equal or lesser, leaning twords lesser.
I feel little need to shake things up just for the sake of making a trade, tho I'm starting to think that Plumb Lee and Oso could give us what Nurkic does on most nights.

 

[Yuma]

This is exactly what this team needs, someone dropping bodies in the tunnel. I want every team we play on their very best behavior, scared to death to mess around.
Sadly the guy I want to play the 4/5 for us doesn't even exist. Even if he did there is no chance in hell of us wiggling a deal for him.
What would we get back for Nurk? Equal or lesser, leaning twords lesser.
I feel little need to shake things up just for the sake of making a trade, tho I'm starting to think that Plumb Lee and Oso could give us what Nurkic does on most nights.

Yeah, there's no Nurkic one for one trade out there that upgrades us. That's why I am leaning we take back two guys minimum for Nurk, and will have to give up our first round pick, too. Possibly we can't get one guy for Nurk, but we could get a couple that might make up for him as a pair. Maybe our best option is one of our shooters, like Allen for a big. But it's not going to be a a great center. Maybe we could get a big wing. I don't think we can get a center this year.

 

[Mainstreet]

This is exactly what this team needs, someone dropping bodies in the tunnel. I want every team we play on their very best behavior, scared to death to mess around.

I liked this part a lot. Suns need some attitude or they are not going anywhere.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, there's no Nurkic one for one trade out there that upgrades us. That's why I am leaning we take back two guys minimum for Nurk, and will have to give up our first round pick, too. Possibly we can't get one guy for Nurk, but we could get a couple that might make up for him as a pair. Maybe our best option is one of our shooters, like Allen for a big. But it's not going to be a a great center. Maybe we could get a big wing. I don't think we can get a center this year.

Sort of like the trade the Mavericks made for Washington and Gafford.

Under the new CBA, these trades are hard to find.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well, that's another trade possibility out the window.

Grant Williams reported to have a season-ending torn ACL in knee.

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[Hoop Head]

This is exactly what this team needs, someone dropping bodies in the tunnel. I want every team we play on their very best behavior, scared to death to mess around.
Sadly the guy I want to play the 4/5 for us doesn't even exist. Even if he did there is no chance in hell of us wiggling a deal for him.
What would we get back for Nurk? Equal or lesser, leaning twords lesser.
I feel little need to shake things up just for the sake of making a trade, tho I'm starting to think that Plumb Lee and Oso could give us what Nurkic does on most nights.

Short of somehow adding Rasheed Wallace in or near his prime, I'd be in favor of acquiring Steven Adams. He's as close to enforcer in the league now. If Houston were willing we could even take Tari Eason or Cam Whitmore off their hands in a Nurk for Adams deal. Of course we'd need to send a pick if either Eason or Whitmore were involved.

Grayson for Adams works financially speaking but I'd only do that if we had a subsequent trade lined up involving Nurkic for a wing.

 

[GatorAZ]

Sam Vecenie on his pod insinuated 2nd apron teams can aggregate players in a deal as long as it matches the amount of players you’re getting back and that you’re receiving less salary than in return.

So 1 for 1, 2 for 2, 3 for 3 etc as long as it less salary coming back. It didn’t sound right so I looked up some FAQ’s and found something on reddit.
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[Mainstreet]

Gerald Bourget simplifies it a bit to the nuts and bolts.

There is an ongoing conversation that discusses it further if one reads the replies to the tweet.

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[GatorAZ]

PF/C’s that make less than Nurkic:

Patrick Williams
Robert Williams
Isaiah Stewart
Chris Boucher
Nick Richard’s
Jonas Valanciunas
Zach Collins
Walker Kessler
Larry Nance Jr