Forcing The Ball To Marvin Harrison Junior

[BritCard]

Counterpoint, we should force the ball to MHJ.

We ain't winning the superbowl this year, I hate to say...

The best long term strategy for this team is the get Marv as many touches in as many different situations as possible.

That doesn't mean Kyler should be throwing into double coverage but otherwise get him the ball as much as we can.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

These kinds of games are why we get on Kyler, Crimson. He has this kind of game too often. We are not going to win many games when he plays like this, when he tries to force it where he shouldn't. He has the physical skills to force those kinds of plays, but only sometimes. Usually they're killers.

He's been great for one game, and good for half of game 1 and the very start of this one. He's been pretty terrible outside of that. We need more consistency out of him. Still, this long into his career.

Yeah I'm not really sure what to make of this game from an offensive perspective Stout. Very puzzling.

Like I said, Murray took a step back yesterday for sure, but equally concerning is the lack of production from our running game. Conner (I guess another one of your favorite whipping boys haha) with under 2 YPC. And there were some other things on offense to fret about.

But, I will say we've played probably two of the better teams in the NFL. Two very good/maybe great defenses. I think DET deserves some credit for good personnel and a good game plan.

All is not lost, and let's see what happens this upcoming week vs. the Commanders.

 

[Russ Smith]

Nabers is built different but I think Marv will be elite in year two. People can blame Petzing but he doesn’t draw up plays that are supposed to be thrown into double coverage. Kyler has to go thru this progressions better.

Agreed but I also think the gameplan yesterday was to get the ball out quickly because they were concerned about having to block Hutch with a bouncer from a nightclub playing RT.

There were multiple plays where the ball had to come out really quickly, in fact in several instances Kyler didn't even have time to dump to the RB.

But Kyler locked on and was throwing to his primary read even when doubled.

 

[PJ1]

Counterpoint, we should force the ball to MHJ.

We ain't winning the superbowl this year, I hate to say...

The best long term strategy for this team is the get Marv as many touches in as many different situations as possible.

That doesn't mean Kyler should be throwing into double coverage but otherwise get him the ball as much as we can.

Kind of agree here. The pick in the endzone was under thrown. Never gave MHJ a chance on that one.

 

[BirdGangThing]

haven't looked it up but I'm guessing about 4 of mhj's 10 completions came after running his route - with murray scrambling and mhj working to get open - you're not going to have a high completion percentage in these scenarios but again it'll only get better

 

[Crimson Warrior]

haven't looked it up but I'm guessing about 4 of mhj's 10 completions came after running his route - with murray scrambling and mhj working to get open - you're not going to have a high completion percentage in these scenarios but again it'll only get better

Yeah. Yesterday was by no means a disaster. K1 didn't throw four picks or anything. That was his first interception of the season. MHJ maybe left a catch or two or on the field, but looked silky smooth otherwise.

I think we were maybe little hung over from the huge win last week, plus ran into a defensive buzz saw. A DET team desperate to keep it's superbowl trajectory on track.

I fully expect the offense to bounce back next week.

 

[oaken1]

What character is that?

sub six foot...the rascal

 

[oaken1]

Yeah I'm not really sure what to make of this game from an offensive perspective Stout. Very puzzling.

Like I said, Murray took a step back yesterday for sure, but equally concerning is the lack of production from our running game. Conner (I guess another one of your favorite whipping boys haha) with under 2 YPC. And there were some other things on offense to fret about.

But, I will say we've played probably two of the better teams in the NFL. Two very good/maybe great defenses. I think DET deserves some credit for good personnel and a good game plan.

All is not lost, and let's see what happens this upcoming week vs. the Commanders.

Ive seen predictions of a Detroit/Buffalo super bowl...so right now Im chalking a lot up to the idea we have played two very good teams..and buffalo in 35mph winds....and if we are being even half way honest we could have won either...and with all the bullshyte, absolutely should have won the Detroit game.
a month ago most would have been cool with the thought we were 1-2 with a barely loss to the bills at this point in the season. a get right game against the commies,...and 2-2 doesnt look that bad with Darius Robinson coming back, and Zay Jones coming back a week later.
But I am concerned about the deafening silence surrounding Jonah Williams

 

[BritCard]

Yeah I'm not really sure what to make of this game from an offensive perspective Stout. Very puzzling.

Like I said, Murray took a step back yesterday for sure, but equally concerning is the lack of production from our running game. Conner (I guess another one of your favorite whipping boys haha) with under 2 YPC. And there were some other things on offense to fret about.

But, I will say we've played probably two of the better teams in the NFL. Two very good/maybe great defenses. I think DET deserves some credit for good personnel and a good game plan.

All is not lost, and let's see what happens this upcoming week vs. the Commanders.

What I took away from this game is that Petzing needs a better plan B.

His plan A is very good, maybe even great, but the recipe to stopping this offense is to stop the run and when the happens he doesn't seem to have anything but "Let's keep trying, maybe it will change".

Kyler said in his presser that they played a lot of man coverage, in which case, why didn't we give Kyler more designed runs? He had 5 for 45 yards, most of them in Q1. Run Kyler more to force them out of man. Hit the TE's more who are covered by CB4's or LB's. McBride had only 3 for 25 and Higgin 1 for 11. If you can't run through their D line run around it, use more short passes to Conner or more screens.

There was a lot Petzing did well because, while it wasn't apparent, he was scheming a lot to cope with Barton at RT, but he needs to have a better plan B for when teams are set up for plan A.

I also learned Kyler isn't so good vs man coverage.

 

[MadCardDisease]

When Kyler forced the ball to MHJr in the Endzone and it was intercepted, that was all on Kyler. Kyler failed to read the CB dropping to double MHJr with the safety which allowed Wilson to come wide open where the CB vacated. If Kyler doesn't force the ball to MHJr and makes the correct throw, it's a 20 yard pass for a 1st down to Michael Wilson.

HIGHLIGHT: Joseph denies deep pass with INT in end zone

 

[Stout]

What I took away from this game is that Petzing needs a better plan B.

His plan A is very good, maybe even great, but the recipe to stopping this offense is to stop the run and when the happens he doesn't seem to have anything but "Let's keep trying, maybe it will change".

Kyler said in his presser that they played a lot of man coverage, in which case, why didn't we give Kyler more designed runs? He had 5 for 45 yards, most of them in Q1. Run Kyler more to force them out of man. Hit the TE's more who are covered by CB4's or LB's. McBride had only 3 for 25 and Higgin 1 for 11. If you can't run through their D line run around it, use more short passes to Conner or more screens.

There was a lot Petzing did well because while it wasn't apparent he was scheming a lot to cope with Barton at RT, but he needs to have a better plan B for when teams are set up for plan A.

I also learned Kyler isn't so good vs man coverage.

Hard agree with this. I'll add in that he clams up as a play caller at really stupid times. First possession of the second half against the Bills. After the INT yesterday.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

MHJ just needs to get better at attacking the ball. The ball he failed to bring in near the goal line yesterday was because he was letting the ball come all the way to him and that allowed the defender to get a hand in there. He was in front of the defender so there is no way the defender gets a hand on it if MHJ extends to the ball.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There were a rumors about him not beign a good player to add to your locker room before the draft.

Links, stories, GM comments?

 

[Cheesebeef]

What I took away from this game is that Petzing needs a better plan B.

His plan A is very good, maybe even great, but the recipe to stopping this offense is to stop the run and when the happens he doesn't seem to have anything but "Let's keep trying, maybe it will change".

This is what some of us were talking about when we’d say Petzig isn’t good at second half adjustments. The offense routinely looks good or at least decent in the first half of games, even when they had the Rocket Scientist playing QB last year. But once defensive coordinators adjust at half, Petzig struggles a lot to counter.

Hopefully we can chalk that up to his relative youth as an OC and that he gets better over time. But we’ve now seen 2 out of 3 games where the offense scored 3 and 6 points after halftime, after scoring 17 and 7 (not impressive in its own right) respectively.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

What I took away from this game is that Petzing needs a better plan B.

His plan A is very good, maybe even great, but the recipe to stopping this offense is to stop the run and when the happens he doesn't seem to have anything but "Let's keep trying, maybe it will change".

Kyler said in his presser that they played a lot of man coverage, in which case, why didn't we give Kyler more designed runs? He had 5 for 45 yards, most of them in Q1. Run Kyler more to force them out of man. Hit the TE's more who are covered by CB4's or LB's. McBride had only 3 for 25 and Higgin 1 for 11. If you can't run through their D line run around it, use more short passes to Conner or more screens.

There was a lot Petzing did well because, while it wasn't apparent, he was scheming a lot to cope with Barton at RT, but he needs to have a better plan B for when teams are set up for plan A.

I also learned Kyler isn't so good vs man coverage.

I don't know that much about NFL x's and o's to really comment on DP's schemes and playing calling, but not being effective on offense in the 2nd half of games has happened a few too many times so far under DP. I hope he gets is sorted out!

I also agree with you about designed runs for K1. He was our only viable running threat yesterday, gashing DET badly in the Q1. Then it disappeared except for the desperation 3rd down and long, option keep near our goal line.

We so needed a spark in the 2nd half yesterday, and something to slow down their pass rush. Should have seen at least three or four more rollouts/QB keeps.


and no it wasn't the ankle, because he ran fine on a designed run right after the play where he got stepped on.

 

[602 Native]

What I took away from this game is that Petzing needs a better plan B.

His plan A is very good, maybe even great, but the recipe to stopping this offense is to stop the run and when the happens he doesn't seem to have anything but "Let's keep trying, maybe it will change".

Kyler said in his presser that they played a lot of man coverage, in which case, why didn't we give Kyler more designed runs? He had 5 for 45 yards, most of them in Q1. Run Kyler more to force them out of man. Hit the TE's more who are covered by CB4's or LB's. McBride had only 3 for 25 and Higgin 1 for 11. If you can't run through their D line run around it, use more short passes to Conner or more screens.

There was a lot Petzing did well because, while it wasn't apparent, he was scheming a lot to cope with Barton at RT, but he needs to have a better plan B for when teams are set up for plan A.

I also learned Kyler isn't so good vs man coverage.

Thank you for an actually good critique.

 

[THESMEL]

What I took away from this game is that Petzing needs a better plan B.

His plan A is very good, maybe even great, but the recipe to stopping this offense is to stop the run and when the happens he doesn't seem to have anything but "Let's keep trying, maybe it will change".

Kyler said in his presser that they played a lot of man coverage, in which case, why didn't we give Kyler more designed runs? He had 5 for 45 yards, most of them in Q1. Run Kyler more to force them out of man. Hit the TE's more who are covered by CB4's or LB's. McBride had only 3 for 25 and Higgin 1 for 11. If you can't run through their D line run around it, use more short passes to Conner or more screens.

There was a lot Petzing did well because, while it wasn't apparent, he was scheming a lot to cope with Barton at RT, but he needs to have a better plan B for when teams are set up for plan A.

I also learned Kyler isn't so good vs man coverage.

No runs in a a close game in the 4th 1/4 - Conner had 9 total. That is unacceptable, even if they don’t get the yards, that’s not a failed plan, that’s an abandoned plan!
Seen that by cards and coaches for the last 2 decades.

Remember MNM, EDGE wasn’t getting the yards, but it kept the bears in check, until cards blew themselves up.

 

[602 Native]

No runs in a a close game in the 4th 1/4 - Conner had 9 total. That is unacceptable, even if they don’t get the yards, that’s not a failed plan, that’s an abandoned plan!
Seen that by cards and coaches for the last 2 decades.

Remember MNM, EDGE wasn’t getting the yards, but it kept the bears in check, until cards blew themselves up.

JC finished at 1.9ypc. That is absolutely terrible.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Marvin is fine and defenses are already game planning for him.

The play he missed that no one is mentioning is in the first half where the ball was a little high and to his left that he got his hands but didn’t pull it in. Thats a play he needs to make. That was a TD.

The play people are talking about was a play he could make but the DB made a nice play too.

The int was all on Murray and a terrible throw.

 

[WisconsinCard]

When Kyler forced the ball to MHJr in the Endzone and it was intercepted, that was all on Kyler. Kyler failed to read the CB dropping to double MHJr with the safety which allowed Wilson to come wide open where the CB vacated. If Kyler doesn't force the ball to MHJr and makes the correct throw, it's a 20 yard pass for a 1st down to Michael Wilson.

HIGHLIGHT: Joseph denies deep pass with INT in end zone

Or he could have just as easily have thrown Wilson open. But that is not one of his strongest suits

 

[ajcardfan]

The question is would DHop make those catches?

Or any other #1 WR?

I think he would've made some of them. No doubt about it. Even the INT DHop might have drawn a penalty or outjumped him. But would DHop have made those catches in his first three games of a rookie? I have no idea.

They will get better as time goes on.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

The lazy route running was on full display. It makes me wonder how close this kid is to losing his confidence. It may be time to have his father come in and talk to him. In addition, if the Cardinals knew that they were going to go with an offense that didnt play to MHJ’s skill set, why did they draft him? Was it simply pressure from the fan base and the GM?

 

[Jetstream Green]

Would be really cool if we had a WR getting open not named Harrison or Wilson, who got more than ten yards down the field when the ball was thrown to them

 

[HairZach]

The lazy route running was on full display. It makes me wonder how close this kid is to losing his confidence. It may be time to have his father come in and talk to him. In addition, if the Cardinals knew that they were going to go with an offense that didnt play to MHJ’s skill set, why did they draft him? Was it simply pressure from the fan base and the GM?

His skills should translate to this offense. Sure WRs aren't the focal point but we still want to be able to throw the ball. If he was as talented as advertised he would be worth it. He had 12 targets today and I think all 6 incompletions were Marvin's fault.

He's still good, but not nearly as good as guys like Lamb, Puka, Nabers, JJ, or Chase. Right now Marvin is playing on the same tier as guys like Christian Kirk. I think our offense would be lights out if we had Nabers or Bowers instead.

 

[slanidrac16]

I’m wondering about our route design. Is it too vanilla. I swear we never seem to have a defender more than a yard away from our receivers.