Passing attack????

[slanidrac16]

Let’s face it. We stink at throwing the ball. I can’t really pin it down to one reason.
1. Okay, we are definite Built to run the ball. One would think then that the play action would lead to open receivers. It doesn’t seem to be happening.
2. Petzing. We run a very conservative offense. We can move the ball but we don’t seem to have the plays or the balls to go downfield even when we have the defense set up. Long drives are nice but 1 or 2 penalties blows the plan. Why such a lack of deep balls. Remember Arians theory, 6 shots per game? What is ours? One every other game? And when we do it always seems to be right near the sidelines?
3. Gannon. Is this what he wants? Long drives, eat up the clock, and hope the defense keeps them out of the end zone?
4. Murray. 13 tds in 12 games. Really? Defenses know how to contain him and this offense. Sure we get the occasional scramble and off script play but is he or can he be more than this? Shouldn’t he have more yards? I repeat 13 tds???
5. Play design? Why does it seem every pass to our Wr have a db within a yard of the Wr? Can our Wr just not get separation? Is the ball coming out to late? Are we not seeing the open wr?
6. Our Wr’s? MHJ was supposed to be this precise route runner which would need precise timing. That doesn’t seem to be happening. Thus every catch seems contested. Same could be the same for Wilson. Is it a lack of the ability to read zones and open areas? I'm not buying they aren’t fast enough. See Rice and Fitz.
7. A combination of all the above.

This offense only works when there are no mistakes. No penalties. No dropped balls. No sacks. No offensive line breakdowns. We are very weak playing behind the sticks and off schedule. Our passing attack scares NOBODY, thus it allows defenses to play up close and pressure Kyler or at the very least show pressure.

This offense has to change if we are going to win. You simply can’t play perfect mistake free football on every drive. What’s it going to take?

 

[BirdGangThing]

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[slanidrac16]

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Absolutely correct. Qbr doesn’t add up to a dominating qb. Would this offense be different if we had a qb like Love or Mayfield? Is Kyler the problem or a victim of the scheme?

 

[BirdGangThing]

Absolutely correct. Qbr doesn’t add up to a dominating qb. Would this offense be different if we had a qb like Love or Mayfield? Is Kyler the problem or a victim of the scheme?

kyler > mayfield all day especially sunday

 

[SoonerLou]

Conservative OC
Lack of YAC WR
Lack of Deep Threat/Speed
Kyler not a rhythmic passer
Very young Wrs

 

[Chopper0080]

kyler > mayfield all day especially sunday

Disagree. I think they are very comparable.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Disagree. I think they are very comparable.

if you'd take baker over kyler we can just agree to disagree and move on - because no

 

[Stout]

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Those charts say a lot.

 

[Stout]

Disagree. I think they are very comparable.

Edge goes to Mayfield for coming up clutch in some key games and getting a playoff win.

As an aside, no one here said "Let's get rid of Kyler for Baker."

 

[Chopper0080]

Conservative OC
Lack of YAC WR
Lack of Deep Threat/Speed
Kyler not a rhythmic passer
Very young Wrs

Conservative OC
Conservative HC
Conservative QB
Very young WRs
Lack of time and rhythm passer
Lack of volume in the pass game

 

[Chopper0080]

if you'd take baker over kyler we can just agree to disagree and move on - because no

They are comparable players. Not sure what you have seen from Kyler that makes you believe there is a significant difference between the two.

 

[BirdGangThing]

lol i gotta quit posting while working

 

[slanidrac16]

kyler > mayfield all day especially sunday

Hmm. Mayfield has thrown for 400 more yards and twice as many touchdowns. He was also missing Evans for a while and Godwin for the year. You seem quite adamant about this. Why so?

 

[slanidrac16]

It appears “ All the above” is the consensus.

 

[Russ Smith]

A lot of it is we play 3 TE's so much and one of those TE's has I think 2 catches all year, he's really an OL playing TE.

On the TD pass to Marv against the Vikings, there's film now of Petzing diagramming that play and he admits the TD was "improv from Marv and Kyler." They were trying to throw somewhere else, in particular a screen to Conner but Minnesota had it covered so Kyler got outside the pocket, directed Marv into the corner and hit him for the TD.

In a later part in the same thing he talks about the PI on the long pass to Zay Jones, that was improv too, Zay wasn't supposed to be running that route but he read the coverage and realized there wasn't a safety so he took off deep and Kyler put it right there, would have been a TD if not for the PI. So the 2 best passing plays of the game against the Vikings were both complete improv

 

[cardpa]

I don't think this staff trusts Murray enough to run a wide open passing attack. Run the ball, keep it close and not let Murray make mistakes.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't think this staff trusts Murray enough to run a wide open passing attack. Run the ball, keep it close and not let Murray make mistakes.

I don't think they trust the offense to do that. Look at how often we've seen guys running the wrong routes, with a limited attack. Go wide open 4 WR throwing the ball all the time with a young WR group is just asking for trouble.

Note, in the same video where Petzing admitted the TD pass was "improv" he said there were 2 back shoulders in this game that Marv was slow to react to. I thought the first one was on Murray, as did Olsen who on air said he thought it was thrown too soon but Petzing said there were 2 that Marv didn't pick up fast enough. I don't know if that was one of them or if there were 2 others.

Also saw Frank Sanders online explain why he thinks Dortch is out of the rotation. He showed 2 plays the play where we threw him a screen with blocking in front and he danced laterally and got 4 yards, Sanders said if he just sticks his foot in the ground and goes it's blocked for 10 yards easily, you can actually see one of the TE's yelling at him to do just that after the play. ON another one he just stopped on a route and Kyler ended up bailing on the pocket, forget the play, but the coaches were yelling at him before he even got to the sideline on that one. Sanders said if you look Kyler is in the process of getting ready to throw the ball to Dortch when he stops, said nothing makes a QB more angry than a WR giving up on a route.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't think they trust the offense to do that. Look at how often we've seen guys running the wrong routes, with a limited attack. Go wide open 4 WR throwing the ball all the time with a young WR group is just asking for trouble.

Note, in the same video where Petzing admitted the TD pass was "improv" he said there were 2 back shoulders in this game that Marv was slow to react to. I thought the first one was on Murray, as did Olsen who on air said he thought it was thrown too soon but Petzing said there were 2 that Marv didn't pick up fast enough. I don't know if that was one of them or if there were 2 others.

Also saw Frank Sanders online explain why he thinks Dortch is out of the rotation. He showed 2 plays the play where we threw him a screen with blocking in front and he danced laterally and got 4 yards, Sanders said if he just sticks his foot in the ground and goes it's blocked for 10 yards easily, you can actually see one of the TE's yelling at him to do just that after the play. ON another one he just stopped on a route and Kyler ended up bailing on the pocket, forget the play, but the coaches were yelling at him before he even got to the sideline on that one. Sanders said if you look Kyler is in the process of getting ready to throw the ball to Dortch when he stops, said nothing makes a QB more angry than a WR giving up on a route.

An easy argument that the WR coaching is deficient.

 

[Russ Smith]

An easy argument that the WR coaching is deficient.

I also think the NFL is just different. If we had guys running wide open all the time it would be less important but in our system where we try to get the ball out quickly guys are mostly getting contested catches. So the back shoulder and option routes are really important, Kyler is throwing to guys that aren't wide open so he's putting the ball on the side he thinks is more open, if the Wr isn't on the same page it's dangerous.

 

[phillycard]

A lot of it is we play 3 TE's so much and one of those TE's has I think 2 catches all year, he's really an OL playing TE.

On the TD pass to Marv against the Vikings, there's film now of Petzing diagramming that play and he admits the TD was "improv from Marv and Kyler." They were trying to throw somewhere else, in particular a screen to Conner but Minnesota had it covered so Kyler got outside the pocket, directed Marv into the corner and hit him for the TD.

In a later part in the same thing he talks about the PI on the long pass to Zay Jones, that was improv too, Zay wasn't supposed to be running that route but he read the coverage and realized there wasn't a safety so he took off deep and Kyler put it right there, would have been a TD if not for the PI. So the 2 best passing plays of the game against the Vikings were both complete improv

This is VERY disturbing.

 

[Goodyear Card]

My opinion.
Kyler still cannot read a defense. He needs to do a better job reading the defense presnap. He is late finding the open receiver. He needs to throw receivers open instead of waiting for the receiver to get open and then throw the ball. DB are too fast in the NFL and will close the gap if you throw late.

His deep ball is not good. He had a great deep ball when throwing to Hopkins, but Hopkins was great at jump balls. Maybe Harrison will be that player someday but not today.

Some of Kyler stats are good because most of his completions are 5 yards or less.

The OL has regressed. Although they were never great, they did Kyler enough time to throw or run early in the season. Seattle did a great job of containing Kyler. Whenever he went to run there was a Seattle defender waiting for him.

I know I have put most the blame on Kyler and I know he is not the only problem on the team. Would he better with more experienced WR and a better OL. Of course he would. However, he was the #1 pick, he is in his 6th year, and he makes $ 45M a year. He should be performing better and leading the offense.

 

[HairZach]

kyler > mayfield all day especially sunday

That was true 3 years ago, but Mayfield's game has taken a significant step forward. I think he's been a lot better than Kyler these last two years.

 

[Russ Smith]

My opinion.
Kyler still cannot read a defense. He needs to do a better job reading the defense presnap. He is late finding the open receiver. He needs to throw receivers open instead of waiting for the receiver to get open and then throw the ball. DB are too fast in the NFL and will close the gap if you throw late.

His deep ball is not good. He had a great deep ball when throwing to Hopkins, but Hopkins was great at jump balls. Maybe Harrison will be that player someday but not today.

Some of Kyler stats are good because most of his completions are 5 yards or less.

The OL has regressed. Although they were never great, they did Kyler enough time to throw or run early in the season. Seattle did a great job of containing Kyler. Whenever he went to run there was a Seattle defender waiting for him.

I know I have put most the blame on Kyler and I know he is not the only problem on the team. Would he better with more experienced WR and a better OL. Of course he would. However, he was the #1 pick, he is in his 6th year, and he makes $ 45M a year. He should be performing better and leading the offense.

The anticipation thing is definitely an issue with Kyler and some of it is also related to trust. That's what Frank Sanders said the one thing a WR can do that will piss off a QB really quickly is stop on routes because if you're throwing to a spot and the Wr stops and it gets picked, everyone blames the QB.

And Frank is not a Kyler fan boy I've heard him a few times criticize Kyler for putting receivers into a big hit by not placing the ball in the safe spot for example.

 

[DaHilg]

Let’s face it. We stink at throwing the ball. I can’t really pin it down to one reason.
1. Okay, we are definite Built to run the ball. One would think then that the play action would lead to open receivers. It doesn’t seem to be happening.
2. Petzing. We run a very conservative offense. We can move the ball but we don’t seem to have the plays or the balls to go downfield even when we have the defense set up. Long drives are nice but 1 or 2 penalties blows the plan. Why such a lack of deep balls. Remember Arians theory, 6 shots per game? What is ours? One every other game? And when we do it always seems to be right near the sidelines?
3. Gannon. Is this what he wants? Long drives, eat up the clock, and hope the defense keeps them out of the end zone?
4. Murray. 13 tds in 12 games. Really? Defenses know how to contain him and this offense. Sure we get the occasional scramble and off script play but is he or can he be more than this? Shouldn’t he have more yards? I repeat 13 tds???
5. Play design? Why does it seem every pass to our Wr have a db within a yard of the Wr? Can our Wr just not get separation? Is the ball coming out to late? Are we not seeing the open wr?
6. Our Wr’s? MHJ was supposed to be this precise route runner which would need precise timing. That doesn’t seem to be happening. Thus every catch seems contested. Same could be the same for Wilson. Is it a lack of the ability to read zones and open areas? I'm not buying they aren’t fast enough. See Rice and Fitz.
7. A combination of all the above.

This offense only works when there are no mistakes. No penalties. No dropped balls. No sacks. No offensive line breakdowns. We are very weak playing behind the sticks and off schedule. Our passing attack scares NOBODY, thus it allows defenses to play up close and pressure Kyler or at the very least show pressure.

This offense has to change if we are going to win. You simply can’t play perfect mistake free football on every drive. What’s it going to take?

Great post..

 

[DaHilg]

Those charts say a lot.

Yes - a lot about the scheme we are running for sure