Suns @ Heat Saturday game thread, December 7th, 2024

[Covert Rain]

This is why the KD trade was made. This is what games looked like with just D Book as the primary scorer.

This. Book cannot be a number one on this team if you have any hopes of a title.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This. Book cannot be a number one on this team if you have any hopes of a title.

It’s questionable if Book can even be a good enough 2 for a legit title team. He’s not elite at anything. Your number 2 usually has to be a great leader in addition to being elite at something, whether that’s D or O.

 

[GatorAZ]

The Suns under Frank Vogel were 9th in NET rating. They were 5-3 in games KD missed and didn’t have two upgrades at PG. Wild.

 

[Superbone]

Start of the third quarter, Suns came out at a leisurely jog, while Miami was sprinting. The difference in the game.

That happens quite often lately. The third quarter is last year's fourth quarter.

 

[Superbone]

We moved our 4th quarter woes up to the 3rd.

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Borg

 

[hcsilla]

The problem is that the Suns are one of the (if not the) most unathletic teams in the NBA.

Only Durant, Dunn and Okogie qualify as above average athletes, everyone else is an average one at the best.

Besides the Jones-Beal-Booker trio is awfully undersized. It is enough to put a bit taller and more athletic (which are easy tasks) defenders on them and if the shooters around them do not hit their contested or uncontested 3P-s, then their offense is in trouble.
Add the non-existing interior defense and you get the recipe of being easily beaten even by mediocre teams.

Durant's presence significantly upgrades the interior defense and the one-on-one scoring ability vs. anyone but by not that much that the Suns should be considered as a contender team.

 

[Phrazbit]

Devin Booker cannot elevate a team of minimum contract castoffs, a couple rookies who cannot score and a dude on the worst contract in basketball.

This is clearly his fault.

The lesson we're actually learning is that when you build the most top heavy team in league history, you probably shouldn't build it around dudes who cannot stay upright for more than a few weeks at a time.

 

[Proximo]

Did you see the Suns prior to Chris Paul and Jae Crowder?

Yes, well just the year before cp3.

I’m not saying book alone was enough to win, but sometimes he was.

This year he has difficulty getting a decent shot off, he never used to have that problem. Since he can’t manage to get a decent shot he now is just trying to draw fouls, but he’s no longer a star so the refs aren’t giving him the cheap calls.

 

[Proximo]

Devin Booker cannot elevate a team of minimum contract castoffs, a couple rookies who cannot score and a dude on the worst contract in basketball.

This is clearly his fault.

The lesson we're actually learning is that when you build the most top heavy team in league history, you probably shouldn't build it around dudes who cannot stay upright for more than a few weeks at a time.

which is why I said repeatedly the only move is to trade KD and hope to get some first rounders for him. This team cannot compete and the older he gets the less value we get in return.

 

[Proximo]

I would hope, but do you think he would backtrack on the decisions he has made?

I guess changing GMs might be the easiest, but it's hard to undo what has been done with few assets.

No, I don’t unfortunately. KD is his signature move and he is going to be in denial, probably until the team is completely screwed.

 

[Proximo]

This. Book cannot be a number one on this team if you have any hopes of a title.

Have all of you forgotten the finals year?

Book was practically scoring 40 a game and he was our number 1.

I don’t know what happened to him, but he was a legit number 1 that playoffs.

 

[leclerc]

If Bradley Beal is the heart of the team it explains a lot. Watching the game in the second quarter he is jogging around going through the motions. Shots are short, not going to the hole, not sprinting back on defence. Yep, that's 50 mill per year right there.

He's great when he's on but that is not every day, to say it frankly.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Devin Booker cannot elevate a team of minimum contract castoffs, a couple rookies who cannot score and a dude on the worst contract in basketball.

This is clearly his fault.

The lesson we're actually learning is that when you build the most top heavy team in league history, you probably shouldn't build it around dudes who cannot stay upright for more than a few weeks at a time.

As usual, nothing is ever Devin Booker fault… even in a game where EVERY role player around him elevates their game and he stinks on ice… again.

No one’s asking Booker to carry this team sans KD to championship level basketball… or even playoff contender level. We’re just asking that a Booker led team not look worse than the freaking Washington Wizards every time KD’s out this season. Because that is what they look like in KD’s absence as Booker shows himself to be one of the biggest empty calorie players in this league so far, sadly mirroring what he was back before CP3 or even Rubio ran the team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Have all of you forgotten the finals year?

Book was practically scoring 40 a game and he was our number 1.

In what universe is 27 ppg practically 40 a game?

I don’t know what happened to him, but he was a legit number 1 that playoffs.

Book wasn’t the #1 of that team. That’s like saying Amare was the #1 of the Nash teams. CP3 was the unquestioned #1 of that team and its leader, not to mention that 2021 team got the biggest breaks, continually in every round, all post-season and he still couldn’t win the title. The moment the wheels fell off for CP3 in the Milwaukee series, we cratered a 2-0 lead. That wasn’t a coincidence. Nor was it coincidence that the same thing happened in 2022.

 

[Carolinacacti]

I’m not even going to talk about Books defense.

 

[Superbone]

All this extreme Booker talk is just fan frustration. It's not all his fault like some here like to say. He is what he is. He's not a superstar on a Kobe/Doncic/Jokic level. He's a very talented scorer and loyal player but he can't single-handedly break double teams. In fact, he doesn't handle them well. He holds onto the ball too long. He needs to start getting rid of it much sooner but he doesn't seem to be making any progress in that regard.

The coach should be helping with this. This should be a focus right now on how to handle double teams and to make plays to get him open. He is much better one-on-one but still not a premier ball handler.

And then defensively, this team is horrible. Other teams seem to be able to score at will. Is that all Booker's fault too? We don't seem to have the intensity on defense that other teams do. Is some of that personnel? Yes, but it doesn't excuse lack of effort on that end or better defensive schemes from the coaches.

Booker needs some help. He can't do it all alone. This team has a lot of issues and Booker isn't a player that can put it all on his back and single-handedly break double teams. He is more a 1B than a 1A. That's why he is so much better with a Chris Paul or a Kevin Durant. Until people learn this, they will continue to be frustrated and blame Booker for everything. Does he have some responsibility in all this? Of course he does. He's getting paid the super max or whatever it is. He needs to figure out how to better handle these double teams among other things.

 

[Cheesebeef]

All this extreme Booker talk is just fan frustration. It's not all his fault like some here like to say. He is what he is. He's not a superstar on a Kobe/Doncic/Jokic level. He's a very talented scorer and loyal player but he can't single-handedly break double teams. In fact, he doesn't handle them well. He holds onto the ball too long. He needs to start getting rid of it much sooner but he doesn't seem to be making any progress in that regard.

The coach should be helping with this. This should be a focus right now on how to handle double teams and to make plays to get him open. He is much better one-on-one but still not a premier ball handler.

And then defensively, this team is horrible. Other teams seem to be able to score at will. Is that all Booker's fault too? We don't seem to have the intensity on defense that other teams do. Is some of that personnel? Yes, but it doesn't excuse lack of effort on that end or better defensive schemes from the coaches.

Booker needs some help. He can't do it all alone. This team has a lot of issues and Booker isn't a player that can put it all on his back and single-handedly break double teams. He is more a 1B than a 1A. That's why he is so much better with a Chris Paul or a Kevin Durant. Until people learn this, they will continue to be frustrated and blame Booker for everything. Does he have some responsibility in all this? Of course he does. He's getting paid the super max or whatever it is. He needs to figure out how to better handle these double teams among other things.

Stop twisting arguments. No one is saying it's all his fault. It's also KD's complete and utter inability to stay healthy. And Beal's odious contract and mid-play to go with it.

But the harsh reality is Booker is not a floor raiser as a player and that's disappointing and ultimately limits this team even when totally healthy... which will be pretty much never.

 

[Covert Rain]

In what universe is 27 ppg practically 40 a game?



Book wasn’t the #1 of that team. That’s like saying Amare was the #1 of the Nash teams. CP3 was the unquestioned #1 of that team and its leader, not to mention that 2021 team got the biggest breaks, continually in every round, all post-season and he still couldn’t win the title. The moment the wheels fell off for CP3 in the Milwaukee series, we cratered a 2-0 lead. That wasn’t a coincidence. Nor was it coincidence that the same thing happened in 2022.

This.

 

[Phrazbit]

Such an inane debate.

The entire logic behind the KD trade was that THIS IS WHO BOOKER IS. However, KD isn't the guy, he has never been the guy, he will never be the guy. This isn't a Booker problem. Booker is a great shooting guard, one of the best in the league... even Kobe's teams were trash when he didn't have support.

The team is in the state it's in because they made an idiotic, short sighted trade on a totally unreliable player. Booker isn't a guy who can drag a team around by himself, we know this... we leveraged the team so bad in the KD trade that we don't even have a "team" if KD isn't playing, we've got Booker and a bunch of castoffs, some of which we've deliberately overpaid with some pie in the sky notion that it makes them more tradeable.

The KD trade did massive damage to the team's ability to compete, the Beal and Nurkic trades doubled down on that terrible decision. We are getting a glimpse of the what the next 6 or 7 years have in store, right now.

 

[Superbone]

We are getting a glimpse of the what the next 6 or 7 years have in store, right now.

Then sign me up! I hope that's not true!

 

[Covert Rain]

Such an inane debate.

The entire logic behind the KD trade was that THIS IS WHO BOOKER IS. However, KD isn't the guy, he has never been the guy, he will never be the guy. This isn't a Booker problem. Booker is a great shooting guard, one of the best in the league... even Kobe's teams were trash when he didn't have support.

The team is in the state it's in because they made an idiotic, short sighted trade on a totally unreliable player. Booker isn't a guy who can drag a team around by himself, we know this... we leveraged the team so bad in the KD trade that we don't even have a "team" if KD isn't playing, we've got Booker and a bunch of castoffs, some of which we've deliberately overpaid with some pie in the sky notion that it makes them more tradeable.

The KD trade did massive damage to the team's ability to compete, the Beal and Nurkic trades doubled down on that terrible decision. We are getting a glimpse of the what the next 6 or 7 years have in store, right now.

These seems to contradict some prevailing thoughts even posted here. The KD trade was advertised as a 1A 1B type scenario. There was media and fans alike repeating the idea this was still Booker's team and that KD would compliment Book. Almost everything @Cheesebeef said was spot on.

I won't debate the state of the team when we don't have our players available to play. That's obvious. However, there is ZERO and I mean zero doubt that Book should be playing better IMO. So many people here have been asking "what is wrong with Book" even when they were all out there. Book is playing more minutes and down in PPG, FG%, 3PT%, and Assists. He just doesn't look right or is lost in Bud's system. That has NOTHING to do with the KD trade.

When the team is missing Beal or KD in the lineup the margin of error is razor thin. For the Suns to have any shot of winning games when those guys are out Book has to be on top of his game. Having said that, I think many of us have stated that if this team fails this season it's going to be because of health and/or the bench still being subpar.

 

[Yuma]

These seems to contradict some prevailing thoughts even posted here. The KD trade was advertised as a 1A 1B type scenario. There was media and fans alike repeating the idea this was still Booker's team and that KD would compliment Book. Almost everything @Cheesebeef said was spot on.

I won't debate the state of the team when we don't have our players available to play. That's obvious. However, there is ZERO and I mean zero doubt that Book should be playing better IMO. So many people here have been asking "what is wrong with Book" even when they were all out there. Book is playing more minutes and down in PPG, FG%, 3PT%, and Assists. He just doesn't look right or is lost in Bud's system. That has NOTHING to do with the KD trade.

When the team is missing Beal or KD in the lineup the margin of error is razor thin. For the Suns to have any shot of winning games when those guys are out Book has to be on top of his game. Having said that, I think many of us have stated that if this team fails this season it's going to be because of health and/or the bench still being subpar.

I feel like there's no synchronicity with this team. I think it's not too far out to think the firepower we have with scorers on this team, we should be the number one scoring team in the NBA. At least top 5. We all know our defense will be our weakness.

For as gifted talent as we have on offense, we have WAY too many turns overs. We are basically handing the ball back to the other team 20 times a game and letting them have a chance to out score us. I thought with the two low turn over PGs we acquired this off season, these numbers would be way better.

I don't know if it is coaching, but if this was football, we would be talking about how our team is playing the wrong scheme. We can all see that we are leaving points in the game, giving away opportunities with turn overs, and at times we cannot get into the paint or find open shots. I hope Coach Bud changes things up. He's tried every lineup almost possible. You would think he would have an inkling of what to do with this team by now.

 

[Mainstreet]

These seems to contradict some prevailing thoughts even posted here. The KD trade was advertised as a 1A 1B type scenario. There was media and fans alike repeating the idea this was still Booker's team and that KD would compliment Book. Almost everything @Cheesebeef said was spot on.

I won't debate the state of the team when we don't have our players available to play. That's obvious. However, there is ZERO and I mean zero doubt that Book should be playing better IMO. So many people here have been asking "what is wrong with Book" even when they were all out there. Book is playing more minutes and down in PPG, FG%, 3PT%, and Assists. He just doesn't look right or is lost in Bud's system. That has NOTHING to do with the KD trade.

When the team is missing Beal or KD in the lineup the margin of error is razor thin. For the Suns to have any shot of winning games when those guys are out Book has to be on top of his game. Having said that, I think many of us have stated that if this team fails this season it's going to be because of health and/or the bench still being subpar.

I will take the guys who show up for work.

Booker has played in all 23 game. Durant has only played in 13 games, Beal 15 and Nurkic 16.

 

[Covert Rain]

I will take the guys who show up for work.

Booker has played in all 23 game. Durant has only played in 13 games, Beal 15 and Nurkic 16.

I would too but that's not the point. Booker is one of my all-time favorite Suns. Doesn't mean we can't recognize something isn't right. I don't know for sure what it is but there is something.

 

[Mainstreet]

I would too but that's not the point. Booker is one of my all-time favorite Suns. Doesn't mean we can't recognize something isn't right. I don't know for sure what it is but there is something.

I think we can all agree, there is something definitely wrong with the Suns.

IMO, the GM tried to shortcut the process with quick fixes.