Clean House- K1, JG, MO

[unseenaz]

Guys, they are not going to get rid of anyone. Nobody. It's going to be "We made progress, we are sticking with the plan, etc"

You’re right about moving on from people but “we made progress” is blatantly wrong

 

[ajcardfan]

You’re right about moving on from people but “we made progress” is blatantly wrong

That is what we are going to hear. That will be the spin.

 

[ajcardfan]

I just looked this up and can hardly believe it about the offense.

After today, our offense is #11 in total yards and our defense is number 20.

At the end of last season we were number 25 and 26 respectively. This is why we will hear the "stick with the plan". I almost guarantee it. No big changes coming.

 

[TJ]

K1 is the only one that needs to go. JG is trying to cook with dollar store ingredients and had us in playoff contention until today. Let’s see how aggressive Monti can be next offseason

 

[Russ Smith]

One problem with your plan. If The same Qb this offense will still be a problem.

right as stated if we can improve there do it. I just am not convinced anybody will take his contract and make it worthwhile. I also am not interested in a complete do over I don't think there's a QB in this draft you can win with as a rookie so if we trade Kyler, we HAVE to get a QB in trade or FA who can start from day 1.

 

[Russ Smith]

I just looked this up and can hardly believe it about the offense.

After today, our offense is #11 in total yards and our defense is number 20.

At the end of last season we were number 25 and 26 respectively. This is why we will hear the "stick with the plan". I almost guarantee it. No big changes coming.

And really until the bye we were as good as anybody in the league at scoring TD's in the redzone.

 

[ajcardfan]

And really until the bye we were as good as anybody in the league at scoring TD's in the redzone.

I don't pay much attention to stats. But I was truly surprised we are one spot outside the top 10 in offensive yards. Stats are deceiving because we are not a top 10 offense.

 

[Card4Life]

Been going on forever. If my father wasn’t transferred from New Jersey to St Louis in 1967 I could have avoided all of this pain. Just never ends.

Ha! I feel your pain brother. I was born in 1967 in St. Louis and have been following the Cardinals as far back as my memories go. Moved to Texas in 1976 and watched every game that was on tv (they were in the NFC East back then, so I saw quite a few of them with the Cowboys being in the same division). Once the NFL ticket came out in 1994, I've seen just about every game. It's an illness I just cant shake...

 

[602 Native]

Offensive yards are meaningless if you can’t score against good teams.

We haven’t done that this season at all.

 

[ajcardfan]

Little recognized yesterday we started Pappoe over Barnes which was kind of interesting. When Wilson got hurt, Barnes played most of game against NE. He has more experience than Pappoe.

Unfortunately, Pappoe rarely was in position to do anything. While we are at it, Darius Robinson got shoved around a lot. Very disappointing, and they were part of the problem yesterday. Hell, Ben Stille should be starting over Darius if you just want to talk about who plays better rather than draft pick status.

 

[phillycard]

Why would I support a team I have zero connection with? I support the local teams because they support the community.

Heck 602, let me chime in a bit. YOU make the connection. I do get your point totally on the issue of supporting a team that left your city and how they support the community. Would I still follow the Sixers, Phillies, Flyers if any of them left Philly? I don't know. But having followed the Cards from St. Louis to Arizona, my loyalty is with the team. Maybe me being a fan from Philly lessens my connection but I don't think so, nor do I care what people think about me being a Cards fan out of state. I love the Cardinals more than any of my other sports teams so I'm in until they are no more. At the end of the day, most of these franchises are just an offer of a new stadium and tax breaks away from leaving for greener pastures so it is what it is.

 

[PDXChris]

I was watching something the other day about the Bears and how their perpetual rebuild started with the firing of Jerry Angelo after the 2011 season when George McCaskey took over as Chairmen of the team.

2012 - Hired Phil Emery, George made him keep Lovie Smith and Jay Cutler
2013 - Fired Lovie for Marc Trestman to help Jay Cutler. Emery now has his hand picked coach, but neither have their QB
2015 - Emery is fired for Ryan Pace and Pace fires Trestman for John Fox, but Fox is stuck with Cutler, so again, neither have their QB
2017 - Pace moves on from Cutler and drafts Mitchell Trubisky, against the wishes of Fox who wanted Mahomes, so Fox does not have his QB
2018 - Pace fires Fox and hired Matt Nagy and again Nagy does not have his QB
2020 - Pace trades for Nick Foles and Trubisky is benched until Foles gets hurt
2021 - Pace drafts Fields and now Pace and Nagy have their QB
2022 - Pace is fired for Poles, who hires Matt Eberflus to replace Nagy and again, the HC does not have his QB
2024 - Poles drafts Caleb Williams and Poles and Eberflus have their QB
2025 - Poles will hire a new coach who again will not have their QB

My point? Monti and Gannon have a vision and are laying a solid foundation. They deserve to choose their QB and see what they can do. I know we can't move on from Kyler until after next season, but I am all in on drafting a QB this off season and letting him compete with Kyler. Best case, maybe Kyler develops some trade value. Worst case, we cut him after next season. Lets not become the Bears.

 

[kerouac9]

Monti and Gannon have a vision and are laying a solid foundation.

Citation needed on this.

 

[Cheesebeef]

My point? Monti and Gannon have a vision and are laying a solid foundation.

What exactly is this vision? Build thru the draft… while blowing their first two picks to try and get major impact makers, going for quantity over quality in the draft, while building an offensive system stuck in the 1960’s that revolves around a 30 year old running back with a defense that has no playmakers on it and can’t rush the passer?

Seriously… what is this vision?

 

[kerouac9]

I'm not calling for Monti and Gannon (or even Petzing) to be fired, but this leadership group is 11-21 so far with a -123 point differential. They don't really "deserve" the benefit of the doubt at this point, much less faith to continue to implement the program.

 

[PDXChris]

Citation needed on this.

Over 30 players that will be on the team next year that we hand picked by Monti or extended by Monti. This looks like a solid foundation to me. We have glaring holes at Edge (1 impact player needed), DL (2 impact players needed), WR (2 impact players needed), OL (would love to upgrade over Brown) and QB.

83.5 Million in Cap Space for 2025

First Draft
1 Paris Johnson - Until the injury, hadn’t missed a healthy snap and can play both tackle spots fairly well
2 BJ Ojulari - Probably a bust at this point
3 Garrett Williams - Best CB on the roster right now
3 Michael Wilson - Solid #3 WR, #2 on a bad team
4 Jon Gaines - Backup center, Fro's possible replacement
5 Clayton Tune - Won the backup spot over Riddler, who is starting in Vegas
5 Owen Pappoe - Solid special teams player and backup
6 Kei'Trel Clark - Played some, probably the odd man out next season unless SMB is cut
6 Dante Stills - Solid rotational play

Second Draft
1 Marvin Harrison Jr. - TBD on impact, but disappointing season
1 Darius Robinson - Injuries slowed his start, but playing more and more
2 Max Melton - Getting better as the season goes
3 Trey Benson - Slow start, but looks like an NFL RB
3 Isaiah Adams - Moved into the RG starting spot
3 Tip Reiman - Great blocker and showed a few signs he can catch
3 Elijah Jones - TBD
4 Dadrion Taylor-Demerson - Looks good when given opportunity
5 Xavier Thomas - Had moments, back of the rotation guy
5 Christian Jones - Project
6 Tejhaun Palmer - PS Project
7 Jaden Davis - PS Project

Good signings
Dallas
Higgins
Ryland
Starling Thomas
Kyzir White (need to be extended)
Mack Wilson
Ray Lopez
Evan Brown
Naquan Jones


Good Re-signing
Beachum

In season trade
Browning (needs to be re-signed)

Extended
Fro
Baker
Conner
Collins

Meh Signing
Zach Pascal
L.J. Collier
Krys Barnes

Between Meh and Bad based on injuries, but hopefully changes next year
Jonah Williams

Bad signing
Bilal Nichols
Justin Jones
Sean Murphy-Bunting
Chris Moore
Zay Jones

If this team doesn't win a playoff game next year, then the heat is on!

 

[BulldogCard]

The quarterback is the need. Time to get that piece. The team looks pretty decent actually except the qb play. They need a pass rusher, DT. The draft for a DT, then FA for the pass rusher, receiver and cb.

 

[kerouac9]

Over 30 players that will be on the team next year that we hand picked by Monti or extended by Monti. This looks like a solid foundation to me.

A solid foundation that's resulted in a 7-8 record and +2 point differential. I'm not sure there aren't 25+ franchises around the NFL that expect to return 30 or more players the next season. Your bar is exceptionally low.

Monti extended Keim's players? Congratulations! Our best three players on offense (Conner, Kyler, and McBride) are all Keim's players. Our best player on defense (Budda) is a Keim player.

Do you expect Monti and Gannon to fold on all their draft picks and free agents after one season? Meanwhile, guys this front office ushered out the door (Byron Murphy, Zach Allen, and DeAndre Hopkins) have shown to still be useful NFL players.

 

[PDXChris]

A solid foundation that's resulted in a 7-8 record and +2 point differential. I'm not sure there aren't 25+ franchises around the NFL that expect to return 30 or more players the next season. Your bar is exceptionally low.

Monti extended Keim's players? Congratulations! Our best three players on offense (Conner, Kyler, and McBride) are all Keim's players. Our best player on defense (Budda) is a Keim player.

Do you expect Monti and Gannon to fold on all their draft picks and free agents after one season? Meanwhile, guys this front office ushered out the door (Byron Murphy, Zach Allen, and DeAndre Hopkins) have shown to still be useful NFL players.

2023
Tore the roster down and started to build a foundation
4-13 -125 point differential

2024
Added more players to establish a solid foundation
7-8 +2 point differential
Removed pretty much all dead money

Forced to trade for Browning when Monti openly admitted they were ahead of schedule for the rebuild

And yes, he gets credit for bringing back key players from Kiem. They waited to see how they fit and then showed the team wanted them here. He didn't make impulsive decisions to keep players that don't fit what they are building.

Anf oh yeah, hearing the Murphy/Allen complaints again. Two players that we have no idea if they even wanted to be here and part of a rebuild. Would I like them here now, of course!

Again, if we don't improve this offseason and win at least one playoff game, then they deserve to be on the hot seat, but I'm excited to see this team take the next step next year.

Our rebuild feels very similar to this.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[kerouac9]

2023
Tore the roster down and started to build a foundation
4-13 -125 point differential

2024
Added more players to establish a solid foundation
7-8 +2 point differential
Removed pretty much all dead money

Forced to trade for Browning when Moti openly admitted they were ahead of schedule for the rebuild

And yes, he gets credit for bringing back key players from Kiem. They waited to see how they fit and then showed the team wanted them here. He didn't make impulsive decisions to keep players that don't fit what they are building.

Anf oh yeah, hearing the Murphy/Allen complaints again. Two players that we habe no idea if they even wanted to be here and part of a rebuild. Would I like them here now, of course!

Again, if we don't improve this offseason and win at least one playoff game, then they deserve to be on the hit seat, but I'm excited to see this team take the next step next year.

Tearing down the roster was a choice. The Chargers and Broncos are actually making the playoffs and having winning seasons without tearing anything down and still absorbing dead money.

In a vacuum, you're swallowing the story that Monti and Gannon are definitely telling Bidwill right now. In reality, the 4-13 roster and -125-point differential is a choice.

The Chargers are 9-6 with a +54 point differential in the first year of their rebuild. They have more than $59 million in dead cap money.

The Broncos are 17-15 over two seasons. This year they have a +82 point differential. They also have more than $90 million in dead cap.

The Commies are 10-5 this season with a +84 point differential.

I'm hesitant to declare these teams fixed or anything, but they're obviously much further along in their building process because they made the decision that they weren't going to be bad on purpose in year one.

 

[Cheesebeef]

2023
Tore the roster down and started to build a foundation
4-13 -125 point differential

2024
Added more players to establish a solid foundation
7-8 +2 point differential
Removed pretty much all dead money

Forced to trade for Browning when Moti openly admitted they were ahead of schedule for the rebuild

And yes, he gets credit for bringing back key players from Kiem. They waited to see how they fit and then showed the team wanted them here. He didn't make impulsive decisions to keep players that don't fit what they are building.

Anf oh yeah, hearing the Murphy/Allen complaints again. Two players that we habe no idea if they even wanted to be here and part of a rebuild. Would I like them here now, of course!

Again, if we don't improve this offseason and win at least one playoff game, then they deserve to be on the hit seat, but I'm excited to see this team take the next step next year.

Our rebuild feels very similar to this.

You must be registered for see images attach

STOP. Just STOP using Detroit as the example.

In Detroit’s second half of their second year, they went on a complete year and established their franchise QB.

In Gaggon/Monti’s second year, we’ve ended the season with a pathetic collapse and confirmed that we absolutely do not have a franchise QB.

The two trajectories are vastly different .

The Lions were ANSWERING questions in their second season. The Cardinals are asking the same damn questions when they came in TWO YEARS AGO.

 

[Bobster]

When you take a step back and realize that the first half of the season included a one-point win over the 49ers when they had no kicker, a two-point win over the Chargers on a FG as the clock expired, a one-point win over the Dolphins on a FG as time expired, you realize they very easily could have been 3-7 at the bye week.

There was a lot of optimism when they were 6-4, but in reality they are a rebuilding team who have had as many close wins (3) as close loses (3).

If you had said before the season that this team would be 7-8 with hopes of a winning record this year, most of us would have been ecstatic with that.

 

[kerouac9]

If you had said before the season that this team would be 7-8 with hopes of a winning record this year, most of us would have been ecstatic with that.

Actually that would have been the expected outcome

 

[PDXChris]

Tearing down the roster was a choice. The Chargers and Broncos are actually making the playoffs and having winning seasons without tearing anything down and still absorbing dead money.

In a vacuum, you're swallowing the story that Monti and Gannon are definitely telling Bidwill right now. In reality, the 4-13 roster and -125-point differential is a choice.

The Chargers are 9-6 with a +54 point differential in the first year of their rebuild. They have more than $59 million in dead cap money.

The Broncos are 17-15 over two seasons. This year they have a +82 point differential. They also have more than $90 million in dead cap.

The Commies are 10-5 this season with a +84 point differential.

I'm hesitant to declare these teams fixed or anything, but they're obviously much further along in their building process because they made the decision that they weren't going to be bad on purpose in year one.

Those are all great examples and we'll see if they have long term sustainability. The Chargers and Broncos both hired HOF coaches, which is a big deal. The Commanders got the best QB in the draft and have felt a QB away for several years now.

Time will tell. I'd rather tear it down and start over after what we saw from Keim with both KK and Wilks. We've been doing patch work quick fixes for 20 years and I'm ready to try something new and happy with where we're going. I'm also on the "dump Kyler club" now too.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Actually that would have been the expected outcome

Agreed. The easiest leap for most teams is from gawd awful to mediocre. You literally have to just not be awful. In a league built for parity that’s the easiest step. And if this team loses out (which it easily could) a step from 4 wins to 7 is just that, meeting expectations. If you can’t make that step you’re just terrible at your job.

To think otherwise is a loser s mentality. I get it, we’re all cards fans, so we’ve been conditioned to have low standards. But to think finishing 3 games under .500 would be something to be ecstatic about is not how most nfl fans would react.