Uncalled For Media Anger

[BritCard]

I just don't know where the data is "for a 6th year QB." I try to lump all QBs in after their second contract and hold them to the same standard. Kyler's clearly better than his fellow sixth-year QBs Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins (RIP), and Drew Lock.

He's better than Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen from the 2018 draft class was in their sixth year, but not Baker Mayfield (some will quibble with this), Josh Allen, and Lamar Jackson.

From the 2017 draft class he's better than Mitch Trubisky was in his sixth year, but not Patrick Mahomes. I don't know how much you want to fight about where he compares with Deshaun Watson in his suspension-shortened sixth season, but I fully expect Kyler to be better in his seventh season than Watson was.

From the 2016 draft class Jaren Goff had been traded and was going 3-10-1 with the Lions and passing for fewer than 3300 yards, 19 TDs, and 8 INTs. Carson Wentz had also been traded and was going 9-8 for the Colts on his way to becoming a Journeyman QB. Kyler's way, way better than 2016 first-rounder Paxton Lynch.

From the 2015 draft class, Jamis Winston was starting zero games for the New Orleans Saints in his sixth season, after creating the 30-30 club for TD passes and INTs the previous season with Bruce Arians. Fellow top draft pick Marcus Mariota was also starting zero games in the beginning of his two-year stay in Las Vegas where he'd start zero total games.

I get people being mad that Kyler isn't Lamar, Allen, or Patrick Mahomes. In a lot of ways those are his peers. But he's obviously at or near the top of the next group of guys.

I was simply using 6th year to highlight he's a vet and he's had enough time.

As I said, at core traditional QB skills he's one of the worst in the league.

 

[BritCard]

It's just comparing two different things, different standards, etc., etc. @BritCard says Kyler is bad for a sixth-year QB. That's obviously not the case; he's better than eleven of the past fifteen QBs in their sixth years.

But among 2024's starting QBs? He ranks 14th in yards, eighth in completion percentage, sixth in success rate, 19th in YPA, 16th in passer rating, and fifth in total QBR. That reads mid to me.

Among QBs who have earned a second contract, my qualitative ranking places him in the fourth tier, below MVP candidates and playoff QBs. He's in the same group as Tua, Derek Carr, and Trevor Lawrence.

Tua is better.

Put it this way, all the vet QBs behind him in rankings are guys their teams would replace.

 

[oaken1]

Question. What makes you like the GM so much? It is still early, but it is starting to look like the GM made the wrong decision to trade out of Will Anderson and drafted the wrong WR in the first round.

He has also swung and miss on FAs more than he has hit this year.

I have also seen your posts of not being a believer in Darius Robinson and not liking that pick. Well….take a guess who drafted him?

Has Monti added some talent? Sure, but that’s such a low-bar to where Keim left it at until Monti’s arrival.

I just don’t understand where all of this assurance is coming from when it comes to Monti.

He didn't make the wrong decision to trade away from Anderson.
He got Paris and Darius... a starting left tackle alone is worth any but the very best pass rusher.. Darius has 2 games,...or 3, whatever..he is learning and already has shown he can handle double teams and collaps the pocket.
Paris has had a couple rough games but let's not kid ourselves, the dude has been solid and would likely start on about 25 other teams...those who know the game best place very high value on guys who can protect the 50mill franchise from guys like Will Anderson and Paris is one of those guys.
Trading the rights to a flashy young 12 sack a year guy is hard to swallow... but doing it to get stronger in the trenches on both sides of the ball is absolutely the right choice.
We all want to drive a Ferrari...but it's the 1 ton Cummins crew cab that gets the job done and allows us to get the Ferrari.
Because your flashy pass rusher isn't winning a single game for you if your opponent can run up the middle all day long.

 

[oaken1]

I just don't know where the data is "for a 6th year QB." I try to lump all QBs in after their second contract and hold them to the same standard. Kyler's clearly better than his fellow sixth-year QBs Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins (RIP), and Drew Lock.

He's better than Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen from the 2018 draft class was in their sixth year, but not Baker Mayfield (some will quibble with this), Josh Allen, and Lamar Jackson.

From the 2017 draft class he's better than Mitch Trubisky was in his sixth year, but not Patrick Mahomes. I don't know how much you want to fight about where he compares with Deshaun Watson in his suspension-shortened sixth season, but I fully expect Kyler to be better in his seventh season than Watson was.

From the 2016 draft class Jaren Goff had been traded and was going 3-10-1 with the Lions and passing for fewer than 3300 yards, 19 TDs, and 8 INTs. Carson Wentz had also been traded and was going 9-8 for the Colts on his way to becoming a Journeyman QB. Kyler's way, way better than 2016 first-rounder Paxton Lynch.

From the 2015 draft class, Jamis Winston was starting zero games for the New Orleans Saints in his sixth season, after creating the 30-30 club for TD passes and INTs the previous season with Bruce Arians. Fellow top draft pick Marcus Mariota was also starting zero games in the beginning of his two-year stay in Las Vegas where he'd start zero total games.

I get people being mad that Kyler isn't Lamar, Allen, or Patrick Mahomes. In a lot of ways those are his peers. But he's obviously at or near the top of the next group of guys.

My issue with kyler is simple. One game he plays like an mvp then the next he looks like a third stringer who just got called up.
Early in the season he strings together good games with moments of brilliance. But late in the season he strings together games with somewhat competent play peppered with moments of unbelievable buffoonery...
And regardless of how he has been playing, if the current game has a chance to clinch playoff seeding, playoff spot, division championship, or a WC slot...we get a plethora of absolute shyte on field decisions supported by piss poor body language on the sidelines and he turtles up on his teammates....he folds like a lawn chair...he chokes. Hard.
We have all seen guys overcome choking in the playoffs after a few years. But choking to make the playoffs??... we already saw who he is when we get there...

He ain't the guy for us. Sure, when you average out his decent occasionally great play from September through early November with his terrible chokage from early November through december...he averages out to a decent QB ...
But the kid could pass for 5000 yards and 60 TDs in the first half of the season...and will still come in and choke away any game with pressure by bad decisions and piss poor play.

 

[Cardinal88]

I say HOGWASH! I’ve spent thousands of dollars each year for a product that isn’t giving me anything back.

I guess I’m the fool and everyone who sells their season tickets are the smart fans.

 

[D-Dogg]

Ugh...I get that everything...literally EVERYTHING, must be perfect in order for Kyler to succeed, but that's just not reality. Top-tier QB's routinely overcome systemic imperfection, especially in games late in the season and in particular against inferior teams. These QB's find a way, period. Maybe they call critical audibles at the line, or make a post-snap read that proves pivotal. Maybe they use their feet to secure key first downs. Perhaps they make "that throw" that needed to be made in a seriously tight window, or make a throw or two where only his receiver can make a play on the ball.
I am by far an MHJ apologist... kid has a ton of work to do. But, I remember seeing at least 2, maybe 3 throws by Kyler that were not thrown in the optimal place and one in particular, late in the game when the Cards were backed deep in their own territory, where Kyler was late getting the ball to MHJ who was open for a second but because the ball was late and wasn't thrown with mustard we know Murray has, the CB was able to close and break up the play.

These excuses as to why Kyler always...as in not rarely, but always fails in late season critical games and moments, are so tiring to read. And sadly, for as long as Kyler remains a Cardinal, the excuses will be the instant, on-replay response we'll continue to read here. Oh well...

Why is everything kyler 100% the problem or 100% not?

He's PART of the problem. Nothing said in what you quoted is incorrect. He carries blame, but ffs, we are lousy with issues that NOBODY is gonna come in and light it up with. BFFR.

 

[phillycard]

It's just the way we're limping over the finish line that's so difficult to accept.

This division being so mid is what hurts me. Just 1 or 2 games that we lost in horrific fashion, you turn those to wins and we take this division running away.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's amazing how much better Sam Darnold got when he had really good receivers, a functional O-line and good coaching. Would Kyler improve under the same conditions? Would Daniel Jones?

No and no

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The problem is, he's not going anywhere next year, and even if we could miracle that, there's nobody in this draft to bring in. So you could journeyman someone behind him to take the reins in 2026 when we draft the elusive QBOF with some mid first or 2nd round pick, and the cycle of firing everyone and starting over begins again.

I've seen this film before, and I didn't like the ending.

It’s our life as cardinals fans. I’m okay sacrificing next season to get out from kyler and hoping for a stud in the 2026 draft. Monti and gannon haven’t convinced me that we need to retain them, so if they’re sacrificed to expunge kyler, so be it.

 

[DutchmanAZ]

Thanks Harry and I agree with most of what (and others) have written. I've seen improvement from last year as a casual fan. I expected them to be pretty bad this year before the season started, and was suprised at their wins out of the gate. I never expected them to make the playoffs. The team isn't there yet and doesn't deserve to be there. I wouldn't mind the losing as much if the team played clean and executed without stupid penalties. Yesterday was a kick in the nuts (and I won a $5 personal bet with a friend on it) just because of how they lost it. Kyler turtles it seems...receivers can't catch what they arguably should/could, and the injuries didn't help. Defense was decent and has been all year. Our offense hasn't been bad either and would be better if not for the already mentioned items.

 

[Broseph]

Eh, they deserve it; the collapses against Seattle and Carolina are directly on the coaching staff, blowing sunshine up our @sses. JG and the staff didn't have these guys ready to play or motivated; JG seems to lack the ability to motivate his players, which is concerning. He's 11-21 as an HC, and if we have another subpar season, I think it's time to move in another direction.

 

[daves]

Petzing get's a lot of crap but the scheme is fine, there are routes downfield, there are guys open.

I'm sure there are, but I wouldn't be surprised if Murray's inability or unwillingness to throw the ball more than 15 yards downfield has forced Petzing to compress the route trees. No sense designing plays with everyone running deep if Murray is just gonna check down every time.

I suspect that's why Kingsbury's offense was so heavy on WR screens at the end. It didn't start that way.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm sure there are, but I wouldn't be surprised if Murray's inability our unwillingness to throw the ball more than 15 yards downfield has forced Petzing to compress the route trees. No sense designing plays with everyone running deep if Murray is just gonna check down every time.

I suspect that's why Kingsbury's offense was so heavy on WR screens at the end. It didn't start that way.

All of this.

 

[PACardsFan]

I read all the over the top reactions to the Cards’ loss this Sunday. Of course none of us are happy. Still you’d think the Cards’ coaching staff deceived or betrayed everyone. In my opinion I think we should be congratulating them for giving us meaningful December games. It’s been awhile. Put aside the fact that the Cards, with an offense focused on running, finished the game with their top 3 RBs disabled. Do you doubt that had Connor not been injured the Cards likely win the game? I’ll conceded they played badly, but how many teams lose to inferior opponents at some point? The timing was bad, but the injury list was unreal. You could almost put together a starting lineup from that list. Murray played poorly. Is that really news? I’m okay with disappointment. Some frustration is reasonable. Verbal assault is over the top. How many predicted this team to be fighting for a playoff spot in December?

This year was progress. With a good offseason the Cards will be positioned for bigger things. This team gave us an exciting year. They had some gutsy finishes and were fun to watch for the most part. I’m just saying let’s not let the disappointment get out of proportion with the accomplishments. Maybe some distance will yield more perspective. I’d rather look forward to an offseason that promises to be result changing. I’m sure some will attack this post as glass half full rhetoric. For me it’s about getting real about this season as a whole.

Agree 100%. Another great post Harry! It’s never easy to get eliminated when you’re so close, but this team was NEVER going to be a finished product this year. I’ve preached all year that you cannot attain sustained success overnight. The Cardinals are on a great path, and I’m extremely confident that MOJG will get there. And yes, without all the injuries this week, they would have won on Sunday.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Why is everything kyler 100% the problem or 100% not?

He's PART of the problem. Nothing said in what you quoted is incorrect. He carries blame, but ffs, we are lousy with issues that NOBODY is gonna come in and light it up with. BFFR.

I actually said in a different post that Kyler is one among many issues that need to be addressed.

The convo about Kyler being a franchise QB is an ever-present and totally legit convo any day of the week.
When you’re a first round, #1 overall pick who was re-signed to a mega deal, well… all of that brings a ton of spotlight, as it should.

 

[82CardsGrad]

It's just comparing two different things, different standards, etc., etc. @BritCard says Kyler is bad for a sixth-year QB. That's obviously not the case; he's better than eleven of the past fifteen QBs in their sixth years.

But among 2024's starting QBs? He ranks 14th in yards, eighth in completion percentage, sixth in success rate, 19th in YPA, 16th in passer rating, and fifth in total QBR. That reads mid to me.

Among QBs who have earned a second contract, my qualitative ranking places him in the fourth tier, below MVP candidates and playoff QBs. He's in the same group as Tua, Derek Carr, and Trevor Lawrence.

I don’t have the energy to devote to Kyler anymore… but I’d sure love to know how many other first round QB’s, let alone a top-10 pick and certainly #1 overall picks who went on to earn a MASSIVE second contract, were “mid?”
And IMHO, calling Kyler “mid” borders on being quite generous.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

When you have your #1 receiver drop easy passes, fail to run routes/adjust that cost TD's and drives, an OC that couldn't figure out that the Panthers D was stacking the box in the second half and switch to play action, and working behind an OL that was missing key starters, along with some atrocious refereeing (again) it is an uphill battle.

So far, this draft appears to be an absolute disaster. Monti thought he was outsmarting everyone by stacking up as many picks as possible. Most of them seem to be abysmal disappointments. And I am not just talking Harrison and Robinson: from the trade down for Max Melton down, all of the picks other than Tip Reiman have disappointed. Maybe Monti isn’t the genius he thinks he is. He also failed free agency

 

[D-Dogg]

I actually said in a different post that Kyler is one among many issues that need to be addressed.

The convo about Kyler being a franchise QB is an ever-present and totally legit convo any day of the week.
When you’re a first round, #1 overall pick who was re-signed to a mega deal, well… all of that brings a ton of spotlight, as it should.

Sure, but ffs you can't even give him a quarter of question or call someone else out without the yay or nay crew thinking asinine kyler poo.

 

[D-Dogg]

It’s our life as cardinals fans. I’m okay sacrificing next season to get out from kyler and hoping for a stud in the 2026 draft. Monti and gannon haven’t convinced me that we need to retain them, so if they’re sacrificed to expunge kyler, so be it.

Where does that leave us? Back here in 4 years, again, same arguments. I'm tired of firing everyone being the "solution" with this franchise. It isn't working.

 

[82CardsGrad]

It isn't working.

What is?

 

[D-Dogg]

What is?

Sucking my wallet dry.

 

[Minski]

Don’t understand why Petzing gets a free pass from some. He makes some of the most predictable calls I have ever seen and doesn’t seem to adapt at all. All the WRs appear to have regressed in his system. How McBride is forgotten about for long periods of games is crazy, also he’s done nothing to help our WR when he is clearly struggling.

He needs to go imho

 

[BritCard]

I'm sure there are, but I wouldn't be surprised if Murray's inability or unwillingness to throw the ball more than 15 yards downfield has forced Petzing to compress the route trees. No sense designing plays with everyone running deep if Murray is just gonna check down every time.

I suspect that's why Kingsbury's offense was so heavy on WR screens at the end. It didn't start that way.

Absolutely. How many times can an OC watch him miss an open receiver or the pass be off by 3 yards before you think the odds are too low to make it worthwhile?

I have no doubt Petzing is trying to keep the calls within Kyler's wheelhouse.

 

[Chopper0080]

Don’t understand why Petzing gets a free pass from some. He makes some of the most predictable calls I have ever seen and doesn’t seem to adapt at all. All the WRs appear to have regressed in his system. How McBride is forgotten about for long periods of games is crazy, also he’s done nothing to help our WR when he is clearly struggling.

He needs to go imho

It probably depends on your view of Kyler. It's tough for an OC to be "good" when his QB is "mid" to bad". So if you think Kyler is not good, it isn't realistic to be overly critical of the OC.

Look at Kliff and the criticism his offense got. The key to fixing Kyler was putting him in a "pro" offense and getting him away from Kliff. Yet here we are. Kliff's offense looks great with Daniels, and Kyler continues to struggle. It doesn't matter what deep routes Petzing calls, if Kyler doesn't want to throw it deep, he won't. Every defense knows McBride is the focal point. If Kyler can't figure out how to get him the ball...teams can take him away.

 

[D-Dogg]

It probably depends on your view of Kyler. It's tough for an OC to be "good" when his QB is "mid" to bad". So if you think Kyler is not good, it isn't realistic to be overly critical of the OC.

Look at Kliff and the criticism his offense got. The key to fixing Kyler was putting him in a "pro" offense and getting him away from Kliff. Yet here we are. Kliff's offense looks great with Daniels, and Kyler continues to struggle. It doesn't matter what deep routes Petzing calls, if Kyler doesn't want to throw it deep, he won't. Every defense knows McBride is the focal point. If Kyler can't figure out how to get him the ball...teams can take him away.

Kliff isn't running what he did here. Not even close. He adapted at USC with Caleb.

KK is a good OC, bad HC, and terrible HC/OC. I gave that guy a lot of grace here.