Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[Superbone]

It's weird. The Suns are top 10 in FG% and 3P%. The team is 11th in Free Throw attempts and top 5 in FT%. Normally, if you see a stat line like that? The team is dominate in the NBA. What is killing the Suns besides major lapses in defense? Absolutely no paint game. No inside presence. Last in the NBA in dunks. Last in the NBA in layups. They live and die by the jumper.

Some of us have been hammering this team since jettisoning Atyon to get a legit FC player. Nurk wasn't it. Everybody in the league was saying that the time of the big man was over. Jump shots and 3 point barrages was in. The Suns are proving to be the poster children of that NOT being the case. Notice how everybody in the league is also staying home on Booker. Inside game opens up the outside game and creates space. Their lack of paint presence on either end of the court is crushing this team. We are getting worked in the paint night in and night out by average FC players.

Yeah, and they can never stop anybody on defense and if they do, they allow offensive rebounds until they do score.

 

[Covert Rain]

Since Beal is virtually untradeable and trading Booker would *risk a public relations crisis, I now strongly support trading Durant. His stature in the league, and his championship pedigree, make him frankly more valuable than Booker or Beal. Sufficiently more valuable that Durant could possibly be traded straight up for certain players. In short, a Durant trade is the only helpful trade that could avoid the problem of aggregations being disallowed.

Beal has signaled teams is is open to go to. That doesn't mean it's likely with that monster contract. However, there is not much point to just trading Beal. If you do that, you are pretty much signalling you gave up on this run. If that's the case, why hold onto anybody? It's over. It's done. Time to move on. Also, despite Book having an off year so far, there are a ton of teams that would take him in a heartbeat. There are always teams who feel a player is being misused or is a vitim of that teams operations. Teams watched him in the Olympics. He still has a ton of value IMO.

 

[Mainstreet]

Beal has signaled teams is is open to go to. That doesn't mean it's likely with that monster contract. However, there is not much point to just trading Beal. If you do that, you are pretty much signalling you gave up on this run. If that's the case, why hold onto anybody? It's over. It's done. Time to move on. Also, despite Book having an off year so far, there are a ton of teams that would take him in a heartbeat. There are always teams who feel a player is being misused or is a vitim of that teams operations. Teams watched him in the Olympics. He still has a ton of value IMO.

It depends on the quality of trade offers. Generally, it's better not to panic trade but if the right trade comes along, one has to look at it. If such an offer came along, it could create a domino effect of other trades.

Looking at the other side of the coin, if the Suns could trade for Butler and add a center without seriously mortgaging their future, it might be worth a shot. However, it has to happen soon or another season goes into the dumpster. Since the Suns don't control their future draft picks, it's less risky. The Suns are already paying Beal a huge salary.

 

[Covert Rain]

It depends on the quality of trade offers. Generally, it's better not to panic trade but if the right trade comes along, one has to look at it. If such an offer came along, it could create a domino effect of other trades.

Looking at the other side of the coin, if the Suns could trade for Butler and add a center without seriously mortgaging their future, it might be worth a shot. However, it has to happen soon or another season goes into the dumpster. Since the Suns don't control their future draft picks, it's less risky. The Suns are already paying Beal a huge salary.

Trading for Butler is just as much mortgaging your future as keeping Beal. Reports say Bulter will not go to a team that won't pay him his extension. Plus, the Suns are going to have to throw something else into the mix. Now you are on the hook for two 35+ year olds eating up 100 million in cap. Trading Butler for Beal's contracts is basically a push salary wise.

 

[Hoop Head]

Absolutely; I certainly agree. But do you accept that the Beal problem is virtually unsolvable, due to no one wanting that contract? I do. I believe the Suns have no choice but to swallow the problem. They created it and must live with it. Beal is stuck here. That is why I say that only Durant should be traded. It's not that Durant hasn't done what the team wanted. It's that he's the only one of the three whom another team might trade for straight up.

I agree in part but the bold I disagree with. KD isn't a leader and given his stature and resume, he should be. We're often better without him on the floor because he falls into ISO ball too often. Even when he was injured and we were losing, there was a fight that doesn't exist when he's healthy.

I think getting him and his laid back perspective off the team would help immensely.

So I agree he should be moved but the reasoning is a little different.

 

[Covert Rain]

That's one reason I wouldn't offer Beal anyway for Butler--especially since they don't want Beal! I would offer Durant, not Beal.

I wouldn't bother offering Beal to anyone, because I don't think anyone wants his contract. When you can 't aggregate, it's impossible to trade a contract that nobody wants. So why talk about trading Beal?

You likely are not trading either without a 3rd team getting involved.

 

[Mainstreet]

The idea of trading Durant for Butler is not new. It has already been discussed on the forum with the idea of the Heat throwing in first round drafts picks, so the Suns could make a trade for a 4/5.

However, the Heat's first round picks are mostly obligated going forward.

The Suns would need to get at least one first round pick from Miami to make it worthwhile. However, I doubt the Suns are looking to trade Durant.

 

[Covert Rain]

What, because Durant makes a few million dollars more than Butler? I suppose that's a concern, but I would also suppose that the Heat would still take Durant's contract because Durant has even more stature as a great player than Butler. As far as I can tell, Durant is a player any team would take if they can afford him. I researched it and found out that their contracts are similar enough to allow a straight-up trade. I find a straight-up trade less unlikely than anyone taking Beal. Any GM taking Beal now, after how badly Beal has played, deserves to get fired and to be called an idiot in his local media. But Durant? It would simply be a gamble.

The Suns have shown no desire to trade Durant anyway and are talking extension. It's never going to happen. If they acquire Butler, it's going to be for Beal and would likely be a 3 team trade because you are going to have offer assets to go with that terrible contract. I don't see any scenario where the team goes with Book, Butler and Beal as their big 3.

 

[nashman]

The Suns have shown no desire to trade Durant anyway and are talking extension. It's never going to happen. If they acquire Butler, it's going to be for Beal and would likely be a 3 team trade because you are going to have offer assets to go with that terrible contract. I don't see any scenario where the team goes with Book, Butler and Beal as their big 3.

Good would not be interested in ever seeing that as a big 3 anyway! They need to get a good big Nurk has been a disaster this year and we have no inside presence or rebounding!

 

[Mainstreet]

This is nothing new, but Houston holds three of the Suns unprotected draft picks.

If Phoenix decides to rebuild, they would be an ideal trade partner.

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[Finito]

I remember when I used to go to war online with guys saying Spida was better than Booker.

Meanwhile Mitchell has assumed the leader role and Booker looks like anything but

 

[AzStevenCal]

I remember when I used to go to war online with guys saying Spida was better than Booker.

Meanwhile Mitchell has assumed the leader role and Booker looks like anything but

Forget the Mitchell comparison. I don't know what's happened to Devin but all too often I'm not sure he's even playing like he's in the top 100.

 

[Raindog]

Forget the Mitchell comparison. I don't know what's happened to Devin but all too often I'm not sure he's even playing like he's in the top 100.

The only thing I can speculate about Booker is that playing in the Olympics during the off-season wore him down and he's been out of gas this year.

Since he's not a pure outside shooter, a lot of his game is built around dribble driving and you need a high reserve of energy for that. Missing having the off-season to rest and recuperate from a crazy long regular season could really be impacting him.

At least, we have to hope that's the explanation and it's not that he's just hit the wall career wise.

 

[Phrazbit]

I also think it hurts that Booker and Durant operate in a lot of the same areas, outside and then cutting into the top of the key. They are virtually never both "on" at the same time because they don't compliment each other at all.

Durant's horrendous passing is a serious problem, with all the gravity he has as one of the best shooters, he plays so slowly and passes so terribly that it doesn't really create any extra offense for his teammates.

 

[Phrazbit]

This is nothing new, but Houston holds three of the Suns unprotected draft picks.

If Phoenix decides to rebuild, they would be an ideal trade partner.

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Suns trade away:

Jae Crowder
2023 first round pick
2028 pick swap
Cam Johnson
Mikal Bridges

Suns receive:

Nothing.

This is our current best case result from the Durant trade.

 

[Mainstreet]

Suns trade away:

Jae Crowder
2023 first round pick
2028 pick swap
Cam Johnson
Mikal Bridges

Suns receive:

Nothing.

This is our current best case result from the Durant trade.

There are a lot of ways to look at the trade for Kevin Durant. I prefer to convert the cost in draft picks because it's easy to understand. The Nets have not traded Cam Johnson as yet, so this is not included.

However, as a result of the trade, the Nets currently have received 9 first round draft picks (8 unprotected), a swap and 5 second round picks. That's quite a haul.

 

[Ronin]

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[95pro]

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I know we promised Tyus the starting job, but I think for more versatility and punch we should go with:

Book
Allen
KD
Dunn
X - Center

This might engage Book more, maybe this lineup to start games for 5-6 minutes. This would maximize Allen and Beal. I think Beal can get his anytime, he will not have Book AND KD in his way. This would help Allen get into his rhythm sooner, Book and KD can spread the court and open up shots for him. He did lead the league in % last year, we could try to gain some of those percentages back.

This relegates the moves we made for Jones and Morris, but adding pg's isn't going to help at this point. We might as play to our strengths from last year, both products are ugly, but last year's is better than the current product.

 

[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[clyde2tw]

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Beal is professional. He needs to be used in the proper setting. Given the composition of Suns roster, it's best for the team's success that he is coming from bench. Once Book gets his shooting touch back, there is enough scoring might with our big 3, supported by Tyus and Allen's shooting ability. We just need to play better team D and smart on O.

 

[Hoop Head]

The thing about the Suns' supposed firm desire to extend Durant is: why assume they mean what they say? If they did not want to extend him, why would they admit that? It might harm ticket sales. If fans here are figuring out that Durant's iso-ing style is slow and boring, the front office probably knows it too.

I agree. I haven't bought into that narrative for the fact they could have signed him instead of talking about doing so. That alone raises questions for me. This front office has lied, see Vogel and all the talk of how pivotal Ayton was going to be last year for a recent example. Until it's official, nothing is official.

 

[Ronin]

Sam Cooper

@scooperhoops
·
1h

Grayson Allen 3P% by month:
October: 23%
November: 37%
December: 43%
January: 60%