1998 All over again

[Buckybird]

You can't lump these two players into being the entire defense either though. With Bucky's methodology Michael Adams is worth 5 mil. a year because he forced the turn over.

Big play are important, but the truth lies between the people who say they suck and our defense was horrible with them, so who cares and the people who see the walls crumbling.

1)Rolle & Dansby are starters, Adams is a nickle man.

2)since our defense was so bad, we should replace all 11 starters on waivers with your methodology because they contributed just as much as the 2 starters lost

 

[Shane]

Slight point to disagree. You could overpay both (not by just a little) and they would have stayed. But I don't think that is the best thing you can do. Assign a value to a player and stay as close to that number as you can, then be correct in that number. That is what smart teams do.

That is what this smart team did. Bottom line is those guys were givin similar contracts in front of them and still chose to leave. The FO did their job IMO.

 

[Gee!]

Get a grip doctor.. This board is getting dumber by the minute..

 

[Buckybird]

Get a grip doctor.. This board is getting dumber by the minute..

maybe we're getting drunker

 

[Buckybird]

That is what this smart team did. Bottom line is those guys were givin similar contracts in front of them and still chose to leave. The FO did their job IMO.

after free agency began with Los & Rolle had just been axed, just a little too late. But thats how RG or Mr B operate apparently

 

[CardinalChris]

1)Rolle & Dansby are starters, Adams is a nickle man.

2)since our defense was so bad, we should replace all 11 starters on waivers with your methodology because they contributed just as much as the 2 starters lost

1) Right, but the argument was they made the play so we should pay them. That player evaluation methodology is flawed and the Adams example shows it.

2) Nope, but just like they were not to blame for our poor showings, they were not the only talent on defense. What 'methodology of mine are you referring to that I claim we should get rid of all 11 defensive players? I don't agree with those that say "no loss, we gave up X points to Green Bay" Different poster.

 

[Shane]

after free agency began with Los & Rolle had just been axed, just a little too late

Nope been trying to sign Dansby for 3 years he wanted nothing to do with it. Was close to a deal last year and he fired his agent. The writing is clear as day he didnt want to be here and there is nothing that could be done. PERIOD!

Rolle you had to wait and see what type of player he would turn into at S. Since he was a BUST at what we drafted him for.

 

[CardinalChris]

after free agency began with Los & Rolle had just been axed, just a little too late. But thats how RG or Mr B operate apparently

Drinking makes sense!! That contract was offered last year, and we have NO idea when they offered the 8.5 per year 20 mil bonus to him. I can't imagine it was today that they first offered that to him.

And NO WAY you pay Rolle 12 million this year. Every team would have done the same, it is not a 'Cardinal way to do business'

 

[Duckjake]

Really? Rolle started in 2007 at safety? Seems like we replaced a couple. Eric Green didn't start? Rod Hood wasn't replaced last year? go from the beginning of the year to the next, not end of one year, beginning of next. Players developed and are slid up during the season and should be accounted for. I bet we replace, on average 2-4 starters from year to year. Right now we need to find 4. Tough, yes. Jump off a cliff tough? No.

Really? What? Read my post.

No rookie was in the lineup on opening day 2008 and the only guy who wasn't on the team in 2007 that started was Travis LaBoy and he was still in a rotation with Berry.


What does the position Rolle played have to do with that? Also was Eric Green not on the team in 2007?

 

[CardinalChris]

Really? What? Read my post.

No rookie was in the lineup on opening day 2008 and the only guy who wasn't on the team in 2007 that started was Travis LaBoy and he was still in a rotation with Berry.


What does the position Rolle played have to do with that? Also was Eric Green not on the team in 2007?

My mistake. Misread. Now do you agree we change 2-4 starters a year from start to finish? We seem to be running just barely over that pace, and one of them (wells over hightower) is an upgrade. Heck Gandy's replacement and Haggans over (take your pick) Okeafor or Berry as a starter are probably considered more production.

Or was my misquote the only point you got from my post?

 

[CardinalChris]

But as I reread it I have a question.

How did "They replace zero starters in 2008 and won the NFC Championship." when Matt Leinart, Al Johnson, Calvin Pace, Darryl Blackstock, and Terrence Holt (meaning Rolle now started at FS) start 2007 and were replaced opening day 2008?

 

[doctor]

Gee why dont you get a grip....give me a holler come December next year and see where we are at.....I have been a Cardinal fan longer than you have been alive....hell I have t-shirts older than you.

 

[Lorenzo]

I wouldn't panic just yet, but I wouldn't be happy about players leaving. FA is always like this with guys getting huge deals on the first days. teams will overreach to ensure they get a particular guy.

I would be most concerned about Leinart.

 

[Catfish]

What we lost were 'Me First' players. We will replace them with 'Team Players' who won't cost an arm and a leg to keep, nor will they have their mouths running all the time about getting more money. Good teams lose good players, that is inevitable. We will come out of this a better team than we were with these guys, and do it for less money than they wanted. If we continue to replace losses with players like Rhodes, who is as good or better than Rolle, and doesn't cost as much, will be fine. If we replace need with FA's we are ahead of the game, because then we can draft BPA across the board to grow new talent and depth. I am liking this a lot.

 

[Tyler]

Gee why dont you get a grip....give me a holler come December next year and see where we are at.....I have been a Cardinal fan longer than you have been alive....hell I have t-shirts older than you.

That doesnt make you better than any of us. All it does is make you an OLD WHINEY ASS BITCH.

 

[English on tour]

Even if we get Foote and Porter we need a Very good draft too see us not lose ground in my opinion. The hags and rams will be better than last year and the niners are deffo on the rise, add to that they have two first rounders and have not really lost anyone its going to be hard to threepeat.

This said we are not the Cards of old, i am convinced of it and if the last couple of years have told my anything it is to trust Whiz knows the right thing to do. Would I take a one year blip of finishing second to make the playoffs the next couple of years...yes I would, of course rather we dont have that blip but i might happen.

 

[CardLogic]

That doesnt make you better than any of us. All it does is make you an OLD WHINEY ASS BITCH.

This is not in accordance with the standards of this site.

 

[chickenhead]

Shane makes a good point: they didn't want to be here. The only way to overcome that was to overpay significantly. Overpaying to placate? A recipe for disaster. And what happens when other holes need filling but we can't address it because we're handcuffed to the contracts of overpaid players? Especially once those players were no longer in contract years? There's a chance that the "step down" we're looking at won't be that much different than the production of Dansby and Rolle after they got what they wanted.

 

[Catfish]

I don't see this as 1998 all over again. Back then we lost good players, and had no money, and no viable plan to replace them with.

This year we lost good players too. We pretty much know who our starting QB is, and the staff seems to think he is capable of doing the job they want. They have observed him for 3 years now and should be able to make that call. Meanwhile, they are bringing in people to look at in FA, even at QB to be backups and replacements for lost players.

We have already replaced our lost FS with one who is probably better, and who cost us less.

We have plans to bring in WILB, OLB, NT, C/G, in Free Agency, and they are planning on finding a trainee QB in the Draft somewhere later.

They have also said that they would like to create more depth with talent from the draft, and they know that if they fill needs with FA signings, they can take BPA in the draft. That is how you build depth. There was no such plan, (or money available) in 1998.

 

[Buckybird]

I don't see this as 1998 all over again. Back then we lost good players, and had no money, and no viable plan to replace them with.

This year we lost good players too. We pretty much know who our starting QB is, and the staff seems to think he is capable of doing the job they want. They have observed him for 3 years now and should be able to make that call. Meanwhile, they are bringing in people to look at in FA, even at QB to be backups and replacements for lost players.

We have already replaced our lost FS with one who is probably better, and who cost us less.

We have plans to bring in WILB, OLB, NT, C/G, in Free Agency, and they are planning on finding a trainee QB in the Draft somewhere later.

They have also said that they would like to create more depth with talent from the draft, and they know that if they fill needs with FA signings, they can take BPA in the draft. That is how you build depth. There was no such plan, (or money available) in 1998.

it's only a plan if everything works out record wise

 

[JeffGollin]

...we are losing so much talent and youth its unbelievable. And to replace these guys through the draft is going to take time if you hit on the picks...

Whoah Nellie! Warner and (if as predicted we don't bring them back) Berry and Okeafor are AARP-eligible. They were bound to go sooner or later.

That leaves Dansby, Boldin and Rolle. Big names to be sure - but we're losing essentially 3 players in their prime - it's not as if a gazillion players are flying out the door.

Times have changed. In this modern world of free-agency and salary caps, you can't keep everyone.

To put this in perspective, I did an analysis of USA Today's list of players and their salaries throughout the league. I realize there are glitches in the way USA Today compiled the data, but by and large, it gives you an idea of what various players earned in 2009.

It turns out that 31.4% of the $111,000,000 Cardinal salary total was tied up in just four players - Warner, Dansby, Boldin and Rolle. When you see that, you can understand why, sometimes, something has to give.

The question we should be asking ourselves is: What are we doing to make up for these departures? And the Cardinal FO is gradually providing the answers. Will they replace Warner with another Warner? Or a Dansby with another Dansby? Probably not (though we can try to plug the leaks the best we can). But there will be other, younger players who will be developed (like the way Calais Campbell stepped up and replaced Antonio Smith) and/or drafted. And they'll come in and replenish the talent on the roster.

It's an inexact science, but the cycle continues and we have to hope Rod, Michael and Wiz can stay on top of it.