2 Interesting Articles: D'Antoni Rips Phx Mgmt and Boris to Knicks?

[Cheesebeef]

Uhh what do you say to the guy when he wants a huge extension and you have no interest in giving it to him?

"Yeah Shawn, you're great, you're worth 20 million a year, but we'll only offer you 7?"

completely agree.

gimp makes it out like Marion was just walking by and Kerr said "Hey Matrix! You're overpaid!" Give me a break. He was under-playing his current salary and wanted MORE in an extension and Kerr was supposed to say what? Good lord people. Gimp, you've got to give it a rest. I even saw you blame Kerr for getting Banks and not getting Salmons in another thread when Kerr was still announcing games for TNT and DA was the GM. Kerr isn't any GM of the Year candidate but DA had his flaws and they were big ones.

Sarverkerr and DA were all complicit in our failure to win a chip.

 

[nowagimp]

completely agree.

gimp makes it out like Marion was just walking by and Kerr said "Hey Matrix! You're overpaid!" Give me a break. He was under-playing his current salary and wanted MORE in an extension and Kerr was supposed to say what? Good lord people. Gimp, you've got to give it a rest. I even saw you blame Kerr for getting Banks and not getting Salmons in another thread when Kerr was still announcing games for TNT and DA was the GM. Kerr isn't any GM of the Year candidate but DA had his flaws and they were big ones.

Sarverkerr and DA were all complicit in our failure to win a chip.

Need it spelled out cheese? Just tell the guy you cant fit the salary under the cap and still improve the bench. No need to tell him he is not as good as he thinks he is. Pretty simple really, Im suprised it wasnt obvious to you.

 

[Rab]

Need it spelled out cheese? Just tell the guy you cant fit the salary under the cap and still improve the bench. No need to tell him he is not as good as he thinks he is. Pretty simple really, Im suprised it wasnt obvious to you.

I have my doubts that he straight up told Shawn that he's overpaid, and not as good as his salary warrants.

 

[Covert Rain]

No need to tell him he is not as good as he thinks he is.

Have to agree with this. There is more then one way to send a message to a player. It appears (based on this one sided interivew) that didn't take place. Again, it's not like players have not stayed for the same reasons before.

Honestly if Kerr had said "Marion...we know you want Max but we can only pay you this because of our future plans. If you don't think that is fair then we might have to explore our options". That is a much better message then..."your not woth that much" no matter how you might phrase that. If someone could tell me how you say that nicely...I would like to hear it.

I would be curious to know if this is actually true and Kerr was just an bafoon or if this is just D'Atnoni's version.

 

[nowagimp]

Have to agree with this. There is more then one way to send a message to a player. It appears (based on this one sided interivew) that didn't take place. Again, it's not like players have not stayed for the same reasons before.

Honestly if Kerr had said "Marion...we know you want Max but we can only pay you this because of our future plans. If you don't think that is fair then we might have to explore our options". That is a much better message then..."your not woth that much" no matter how you might phrase that. If someone could tell me how you say that nicely...I would like to hear it.

I would be curious to know if this is actually true and Kerr was just an bafoon or if this is just D'Atnoni's version.

I dont mind losing marion as much as JJ, and they(sarver/griff?) appeared to do the same damn thing to JJ, got personal with him. Elton Brand ditched the clips apparently over a little tif as well. Pro BBallers have to be handled differently than other people, you cant adopt the arrogant attitude of "crushing them like a bug".

 

[HooverDam]

You gotta be kidding me? I have been a Suns fan for more than 30 years. We have had a great "journey" but no titles. I have enjoyed the team. I loved D Antoni's team, but do you want a coach that is content with something less than a title?

Where did you get that he was content? He's proud of his accomplishments, as he should be. He was in the 90th percentile of teams, if most people were in the 90th percentile in their field they'd be thrilled. There's FAR too much emphasis in sports but on the silly notion of 'if you're not first, your last.' Ricky Bobby eventually learned it wasn't true, I wish all sports fan would too.

I'm not a huge Kerr fan and I don't like Sarver at all, but D Antoni has some flaws. He was so stubborn he refused to use his bench. We watched year after year while Steve Nash literally burned out in the playoffs. That San Antonio series revealed other serious coaching flaws.

I agree, D'Antoni did have flaws, but he was still the best coach available to coach this team. I always knew what I'd get with D'Antoni, an affable guy who always had a good quote, and super fun teams. Sure he's not Phil Jackson (in terms of titles), but neither are most coaches.

Kerr asked him to go deeper on the bench and play a little more D. We ALL wanted that. If a coach can't take a little advice from his GM, there is a problem.

None of us know what went on behind the scenes, so Im not going to speculate. But I do understand D'Antoni feeling frustrated with a guy who has exactly zero qualifications to do his job telling a very successful coach how to run things.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Need it spelled out cheese? Just tell the guy you cant fit the salary under the cap and still improve the bench. No need to tell him he is not as good as he thinks he is. Pretty simple really, Im suprised it wasnt obvious to you.

the above is so pollyanish it's astounding to me. Do you think the first thing you said wasn't part of what was told to him? And when Marion's bitching and moaning about a lack of respect and asking for 20 million to show him that respect, you think the "can't fit..." yada was going to make a difference to him?

good lord. the above is fantasy land, the same fantasy land where apparently Kerr was responsible for signing Banks and not getting Salmons even though DA was in charge for both of those FA deals.

 

[nowagimp]

the above is so pollyanish it's astounding to me. Do you think the first thing you said wasn't part of what was told to him? And when Marion's bitching and moaning about a lack of respect and asking for 20 million to show him that respect, you think the "can't fit..." yada was going to make a difference to him?

good lord. the above is fantasy land, the same fantasy land where apparently Kerr was responsible for signing Banks and not getting Salmons even though DA was in charge for both of those FA deals.

Gee cheese can you get the banks and salmons statement out of your system, or are you gonna live off it all year? Is it a broken record thing or what? Are you so young that youve never seen high management bully someone in negotiation to bad effect? Well that wont work in the NBA, guarateed contracts, cant fire em, cant bully them.

 

[Chaz]

Please forgive me as I've only been about half paying attention, but is there little doubt that Sarver/Kerr/Porter are going to turn this team into the Spurs 2.0, with the slow, methodical play?

You have to play to the strength of the personnel. I think we saw in the first 20 games that they team is not well constructed to play like the Spurs. They will need to find their own identity and it seems Porter is willing to adjust as needed.

The Suns have almost always been a fastbreak team with good guard play and I would expect that more or less to continue. That doesn't preclude anyone from playing solid defensive fundamentals, rebounding the ball, and developing/using the bench.

 

[HooverDam]

Sorry, but I agree the Suns have not done anything other then entertain until we bring a title home.

Huh? Isn't that the point of sports to be entertained? What else do you want? Sure, a good team is more entertaining than a bad one, and a championship team is more entertaining than a goo team, but thats all it is, levels of entertainment. Its not like if the Suns win a title it cures cancer in the city of Phoenix or something.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

This is a disturbing thread but im glad the marion drama was confirmed.

Anyone blaming Kerr for Marion feeling under appreciated must not have been following this team for the last 4 years. Expecting Kerr to abide by marion's fragile, over inflated ego is ridiculous, and anyone who thinks their extension discussion started out with "youre not as good as you think you are" must be huffing paint. That's how it ended folks, not started. When a 12 million dollar player is making 17, and asks for 20, why in the WORLD would you expect a GM to cater to his emotions. This is a money negotiation, not a personality review. If marion is going to act like an ignorant businessman in a budget discussion, he is not going to get what he wants. Period.

Anyone mad that Dantoni isnt here anymore and thinks we could have won it all this season with him has also not been following this team for the last 4 years.

Whatever happened has happened because a new GM saw changes needed to be made and a few regular pieces of the puzzle didnt want to budge from their old thought processes.

 

[Covert Rain]

Huh? Isn't that the point of sports to be entertained? What else do you want? Sure, a good team is more entertaining than a bad one, and a championship team is more entertaining than a goo team, but thats all it is, levels of entertainment. Its not like if the Suns win a title it cures cancer in the city of Phoenix or something.

That is part of it. The other is having the satifaction to call your team a champion. After all, what is more entertaining then winning a title? It's no secret the every teams goal is to win a title. If your team never reaches that goal...it's dissapointing...not entertaining.

 

[FArting]

Sarver was on Gambo and Ash earlier explaining the situation with D Antoni.

 

[HooverDam]

That is part of it. The other is having the satifaction to call your team a champion. After all, what is more entertaining then winning a title? It's no secret the every teams goal is to win a title. If your team never reaches that goal...it's dissapointing...not entertaining.

The slipping up and not attaining the goal though is what will make the eventual title even sweeter. As much as I love the D'backs and all, that 2001 title didn't really feel 'real' in some ways. Ive been waiting my whole life for the Suns and ASU football or basketball to win a title, so when they eventually do, itll be even sweeter.

But, if I were a GM owner, Id never fire a guy because he was an elite level coach and didn't win it all, if there wasn't a clearly better coach out there. And clearly, there wasn't anyone better out there. But whatever, once Kerr was hired, we probably all saw this coming.

 

[Covert Rain]

The slipping up and not attaining the goal though is what will make the eventual title even sweeter. As much as I love the D'backs and all, that 2001 title didn't really feel 'real' in some ways. Ive been waiting my whole life for the Suns and ASU football or basketball to win a title, so when they eventually do, itll be even sweeter.

But, if I were a GM owner, Id never fire a guy because he was an elite level coach and didn't win it all, if there wasn't a clearly better coach out there. And clearly, there wasn't anyone better out there. But whatever, once Kerr was hired, we probably all saw this coming.

As long as Suns fans have waited it will be so sweet I will pass out from the sugar rush. Sooner or later fans have a right to be dissapointed and sick of "getting close" or "being entertained". If I wanted close I would just play horseshoes. The D-Backs title felt so real for me and they have already succeeded where the Suns have failed in a shorter period of time.

D'Antoni might have been best available but that doesn't mean we should have kept him. IMO we got what we were going to get out of him. I don't fault the Suns for trying. I fault the Suns for their evaluation of potential candidates and Sarvers admitted hiring factor of our next coach being the dollar amount we have to pay that next coach.

 

[abomb]

Sarver was on Gambo and Ash earlier explaining the situation with D Antoni.

and?

 

[Brianellsworth]

Sarver was on Gambo and Ash earlier explaining the situation with D Antoni.

Yes please do expand a little on this comment.

 

[cly2tw]

You have to play to the strength of the personnel. I think we saw in the first 20 games that they team is not well constructed to play like the Spurs. They will need to find their own identity and it seems Porter is willing to adjust as needed.

Well, apparently the players particular Bell and probly Nash too didn't try hard enough to make it work. If somebody wanted one style forced on this team, and some others prefer something else, the condition of Suns team in the first 20 games is a prime example for what to expect.

Playing with Nash, nobody thought JJ or Dirk could become the dominant players they are now, because they never had a chance to work on it! And it's no coincidence that Nash's attitude turned sour the moment Porter wanted to have him more off the ball.

 

[Ninjafish]

Here's a post on phxsuns.net giving a summary of Gambo & Ash. Very interesting. By SpecialSauce.

LOTS of interesting info on Gambo & Ash today.

First Gambo said that with 100% certainty Raja Bell's agent requested a trade a little over a week ago.

Then they had Sarver on, and he talked about the D'Antoni article. He responded in the following ways:

First of all, he had nothing but good things to say about D'Antoni as a person and coach.

He said that when D'Antoni decided to step down as GM, he told him that he would give him final say in who he hires as GM. D'Antoni gave his blessing with Kerr.

That summer, they interviewed coaches once Iavaroni left, and Kerr and Sarver wanted Tom Thibadeau (sp?), but Mike wanted to hire his brother instead. They went with his brother, Tom went to Boston to coach the league's best D and won the 'ship.

He said no personnel decisions were made unless they got Mike's approval 100%. He said that he and Mike were txting during the Superbowl ecstatic about the Shaq trade.

In regards to the Marion situation, he said that what happened was as follows: Marion sat with Kerr and asked "Do you think I'm a max contract player?" Kerr responded "The market determines that, but in my honest opinion I think the only max players in the league are KG, Kobe and Duncan." Marion scoffed at that and wanted a max extension.

In regards to winning a 'ship being the only goal, he said that is totally false and he had spoken multiple times with Mike to get rid of that thought. He said that he was completely happy with Mike's job as a coach but at the same time the goal is always to improve.

In regards to the punishing the players for being late, etc. He said that he and Kerr spoke with Mike about it because players were complaining about certain players always showing up late, etc.

In regards to the demands following the postseason, he said that the ONLY demand ever made of Mike was that they were going to bring in a defensive assistant coach. He said "Really, we gave Mike authority on everything. Mike did not like having a boss at all after being his own GM, but what's the point of even having a GM if they have no say in anything?"
He said that the rest of the pressures Mike brought onto himself, they never demanded anything else from him.

As far as Monday, he said that he still considers Mike a friend and they had a great relationship and he would be happy to speak with him.

I didn't know Raja requested the trade. If that's true, it changes some of my feelings on it.

 

[nowagimp]

Here's a post on phxsuns.net giving a summary of Gambo & Ash. Very interesting. By SpecialSauce.



I didn't know Raja requested the trade. If that's true, it changes some of my feelings on it.

sarvers comment:

"whats the point in having a GM if he has no say in anything?"

Well ask Phil Jackson if Mitch Kupchak tells him how to handle his players. Ask Greg Popovich if RC Buford tells him how to practice with his players. The best coaches arent told how to practice or coach by the GM's in the top organizations. I doubt Larry Brown is being told by MJ how to coach either, since MJ doesnt have a clue how to coach. the same could be said of Kerr, he doesnt have a clue how to coach, and unlike Buford and kupchak, the jury is out on whether he nows how to GM, but the JRich trade is a good start.

 

[Covert Rain]

Here's a post on phxsuns.net giving a summary of Gambo & Ash. Very interesting. By SpecialSauce.



I didn't know Raja requested the trade. If that's true, it changes some of my feelings on it.

If this is true it also adds some credibility that D'Anotoni was losing the team. Sounds like the inmates were running the asylum. It's not the first time it's been mentioned that some players were tuning D'Antoni out and blew him off at times. Sounds like there was no attempt at disciplining players and D'Antoni in todays article said "it was too late".

WTF? It's never too late. Your the freaking coach.

 

[green machine]

and?

Yes please do expand a little on this comment.

http://www.ktar.com/sports/

At the top of the page there is a link to the interview, you can listen to it in its entirety there.

 

[green machine]

sarvers comment:

"whats the point in having a GM if he has no say in anything?"

Well ask Phil Jackson if Mitch Kupchak tells him how to handle his players. Ask Greg Popovich if RC Buford tells him how to practice with his players. The best coaches arent told how to practice or coach by the GM's in the top organizations. I doubt Larry Brown is being told by MJ how to coach either, since MJ doesnt have a clue how to coach. the same could be said of Kerr, he doesnt have a clue how to coach, and unlike Buford and kupchak, the jury is out on whether he nows how to GM, but the JRich trade is a good start.

Well, Popovich was the GM before becoming the coach, right?

And I have to believe that Phil didn't have complete autonomy until he started winning titles. Once D'Antoni reaches that level, I'm sure he'd have a lot more leeway and say into how things are run.

 

[Griffin]

He was so stubborn he refused to use his bench. We watched year after year while Steve Nash literally burned out in the playoffs.

Is Porter also refusing to use his bench? Why doesn't Lopez play more? Why doesn't Dragic play more? Our use of bench this season is not much different than seasons past, yet it was supposed to have been much deeper. And Nash is again playing heavy minutes, especially in the victories.

 

[Covert Rain]

Is Porter also refusing to use his bench? Why doesn't Lopez play more? Why doesn't Dragic play more? Our use of bench this season is not much different than seasons past, yet it was supposed to have been much deeper. And Nash is again playing heavy minutes, especially in the victories.

At least I am seeing our guys get off the bench. It might not be consistant but they do. It was typical for D'Antoni to have a player not see the light of day for more then a month.