2004 draft/possible trades

[Joe Mama]

I'm starting this thread because it was being discussed on last month's game thread. I wouldn't count on any trades in the near future. I don't think the Phoenix management wants to scrap their whole plan when it is obvious that their biggest problem right now is injuries.

The incredible disparity between the two NBA conferences really sucks. And it really doesn't look like it's going to get any better anytime soon. In fact it will get worse next year when New Orleans moves to the Western Conference and is replaced in the east by an expansion team. Some of these teams who were crap couple of years ago are finally starting to play better with their high draft picks maturing a little bit. I don't doubt that the LA Clippers would be right up there in the playoff picture if Brand had been healthy all season. Back to the topic at hand...

I figure the Phoenix Suns will probably be drafting 5-12 in 2004. Once Amare and Zarko return to the lineup I figure the Suns are at least a .500 team. It will almost certainly be too late for them to make the playoffs, but I don't think they'll end up with one of the five worst records in the NBA.

I think the Suns will either trade the pick for or draft somebody who can help immediately. This is not a team to develop for the distant future. It's a team that should be competing sooner than later. I'm not sure who that is, but it seems like that Pavel guy is quite a project.

Joe Mama

 

[tobiazz]

I know the Suns have a few injuries right now, but they should not be 8-15 when they have two Max players on the floor. That tells me they are two "barely" max players. This team would not be 8-15 if the two max players were Shaq + Kobe or McGrady + Duncan. It is clearly important to get the _right_ max players.

I *really* like the core guys on this team, but maybe it isn't the right core. I can't imagine trading Marbs for any other PG. I think there are only 1-3 PG's that could possibly run this team better than Marbs, so I say keep him. Marion is great and a unique player, but I can think of several players who may fit the team better (Garnett, McGrady, Pierce, etc). I think his talents would be a little easier to replace than Marbs'. SF may be the least important position and we have Zarko, who WILL be a very good player, waiting. Marion is fun to watch, but I prefer players who can put up 45+ pts once in a while. If we could somehow package Marion +JJ/Penny/a center/picks/etc for a sweet SG, C, or even PF, that would be the only scenario to justify his departure.

I see this future lineup:

White/Jake
Stouds
Zarko
Marion
Marbury

Wouldn't one of the following theoretical lineups look nicer? If Marion moves to SG since we have another good SF and no good SG, his rebounding won't be as useful and his speed won't be as special.

White
Stouds
Zarko
Pierce/Artest (or another good SG)
Marbury

Brand (or another good PF/C)
Stouds
Zarko
not-JJ
Marbury


Basically, before trading any of these players, we need a real coach, like Carlisle or Brown so that the players actually get to play to their skills. They really fu*ked up by hanging on to FJ this off season. And maybe they screwed up by maxing Marion, but I can't fault them for that.

 

[elindholm]

After this season, Marion will be due to make $69.2 million over the next five years. If his performance this year ends up looking like even a tiny step backward, I think it is very unlikely that any team would accept him in a trade without wanting to dump garbage in return.

I don't see any realistic way to improve the team by busting up the "big three," unless Stoudemire turns into a bust before his rookie deal is up. Both Marbury and Marion have enormous contracts, and neither of them is looking like a franchise player. Most teams out there would consider Marbury and Marion to be overpaid, and the amount they'd be willing to give up in a trade would be correspondingly compromised.

 

[fordronken]

Seeing what Jerry West has been up to, and his technique of acquiring as much talent as possible with the hope of trading it, why didn't we go after Bonzi Wells (Googs and ours + Cleveland's first), say "screw the money" and then try to make a trade in the offesason(including someone like Marion) for another big name star?

 

[SirStefan32]

Nobody in their right mind is going to take Shawn Marion. He is not even worth 50% of what he is making.

 

[tobiazz]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
Nobody in their right mind is going to take Shawn Marion. He is not even worth 50% of what he is making.

Don't be ********. He is *the* best rebounding SF, he is a good defender, and he shoots a pretty good %. He is arguably the best overall SF in the league. If he would just shoot a tad better % and get to the line more.

The problem is that being the best SF is not equivalent to being the best at any other position.

 

[slinslin]

20 games isn't suddenly hurting Shawn Marion's value, that is for sure.

If the Suns were shopping him there would definately be many interessted teams.

 

[creed]

Originally posted by slinslin
20 games isn't suddenly hurting Shawn Marion's value, that is for sure.

If the Suns were shopping him there would definately be many interessted teams.

Absolutely....Marion is an overall very good player. If he's overpaid its not more than a couple mill a season and thats not much by NBA sandards. He's a good guy with a good game and he definately is major trade bait. The only thing getting in the way is his BYC but that might be easier to work with at the end of the season.

If we ended up with a decent/high draft pick and packaged it with Marion who knows what we could get. I'd like to have a great pick and keep Marion but I'm not ruling anything out.

 

[Joe Mama]

I like Shawn Marion. I want him to succeed. He's a very good rebounder for a small forward, but if you put him on a team with a good power forward or center he is going to average about 7 rpg. That's great, but it hardly merits a maximum contract. In fact when I was looking at a list of the best rebounding small forwards when we Shawn Marion, Vince Carter, and Michael Finley are being paid maximum contracts. Those other guys are prolific scorers who can create their own shots, and I'm not sure any team would still give Finley a maximum contract.

I think other teams would be weary of Shawn Marion's contract. I certainly don't think he is major trade bait.

Joe Mama

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I think other teams would be weary of Shawn Marion's contract.

Joe Mama

I think we are weary of Marion's contract. Other teams may be wary of it.

 

[creed]

Originally posted by ASUCHRIS
I think we are weary of Marion's contract. Other teams may be wary of it.

Marion being a little overpaid is no biggie...especially when many other players in the league are overpaid a lot more than Marion. I mean is Garnett worth 25+ Mill a season?? Marion compared to Garnett is an absolute BARGAIN. Garnett isn't worth two Marions and thats what it works out to.


Marion is a young highly productive player. He can rebound/score/steal/shot block and plays good defense. No way do we give up Marion cheaply because he hits a little slump...thats ludicrous

 

[elindholm]

Marion compared to Garnett is an absolute BARGAIN. Garnett isn't worth two Marions and thats what it works out to.

I'd much rather have Garnett than two Marions. I've been watching the Wolves a fair amount this season, and Garnett is unbelievably good. Right now I'd say he's the best player in the league.

 

[newfan101]

Originally posted by elindholm
Marion compared to Garnett is an absolute BARGAIN. Garnett isn't worth two Marions and thats what it works out to.

I'd much rather have Garnett than two Marions. I've been watching the Wolves a fair amount this season, and Garnett is unbelievably good. Right now I'd say he's the best player in the league.

I agree. I'd also rather have Garnett than 15 Cezary Trybanski's.

 

[slinslin]

The only players on our roster that are probaby better than Garnett compared to their contracts are definately Amare Stoudemire and maybe Stephon Marbury.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by elindholm
Marion compared to Garnett is an absolute BARGAIN. Garnett isn't worth two Marions and thats what it works out to.

I'd much rather have Garnett than two Marions. I've been watching the Wolves a fair amount this season, and Garnett is unbelievably good. Right now I'd say he's the best player in the league.

Guys, this analogy is getting a little silly.

I wish we could just talk about players and not so much about salaries. I know the cap affects things and all, but when a player plays great, but no one is happy because he makes too much money, it really takes something away.

Back in the dark ages, when I was in high school, and a Suns fan, we would have been thrilled to have Marion, we certainly wouldn't have worried about salary.

Shawn Marion is (will be) an important part of this team's success, he is the ultimate role player. He fills a stat sheet wherever it is needed. If Amare is out, he immediately grabs 10 plus boards (look at it), or he steals the ball, or scores, or lets others score. That is almost as rare as the "frachise player." Michael Jordan would not have 6 rings without Scottie Pippen. Shawn is a Scottie Pippen type of player. You might not think he is worth it, but the rest of the leagues coaches, gms, and players do.

 

[creed]

Originally posted by elindholm
Marion compared to Garnett is an absolute BARGAIN. Garnett isn't worth two Marions and thats what it works out to.

I'd much rather have Garnett than two Marions. I've been watching the Wolves a fair amount this season, and Garnett is unbelievably good. Right now I'd say he's the best player in the league.

Spin it how you like but I doubt many teams would give 25+ million worth of good players for Garnett. How about this...would you give Marbury and Marion for Garnett? How many teams would give two or more of their best players for KG? Probably only the lousy low talent teams would.....

Point is....I think players being overpaid (by NBA standards) is more the standard than the exception. Marions contract is a minor hinderance at worst....

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by creed
Spin it how you like but I doubt many teams would give 25+ million worth of good players for Garnett. How about this...would you give Marbury and Marion for Garnett? How many teams would give two or more of their best players for KG? Probably only the lousy low talent teams would.....

Point is....I think players being overpaid (by NBA standards) is more the standard than the exception. Marions contract is a minor hinderance at worst....

I would give Marbury and Marion for Garnett, and so would the Phoenix Suns.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

To me it is not a question of money really.

It is wether Shawn Marion is the player that the Suns need right now.

And how he can fit with the growing importance of Amare Stoudemire. He has already been relegated to the 3rd option.

 

[creed]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I would give Marbury and Marion for Garnett, and so would the Phoenix Suns.

Joe Mama

Speak for yourself because the Suns would have no part of that action...ESPECIALLY with a guy named Amare on the team.

 

[slinslin]

I am with Joe Mama. I would have no problem with trading Marbury and Marion for Garnett.

Amare has nothing to do with that. He would be a terrific duo with Garnett.

 

[creed]

Originally posted by slinslin
I am with Joe Mama. I would have no problem with trading Marbury and Marion for Garnett.

Amare has nothing to do with that. He would be a terrific duo with Garnett.

Right....I'm sure Barbosa and Penny at the point would be more than enough....?

Garnett cant even get his own team out fo the first round. And he cant bang down low either.

 

[slinslin]

When you have Zarko, Garnett and Amare in the frontcourt I will more than happily take Joe Johnson, Penny and Barbosa in the backcourt + whatever freeagent scrub with decent enough handle to get the ball up the court and get it into KG's hands.

 

[creed]

Garnett has Spree..Cassell...Wally...and they are only 13-9 record wise. I dont know where you guys are coming from and I'm not sure I want to know. Garnett could never replace the production of Marbury/Marion...or even a hypothetical Marion/Marion combo.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by slinslin
I am with Joe Mama. I would have no problem with trading Marbury and Marion for Garnett.

Amare has nothing to do with that. He would be a terrific duo with Garnett.

As long as we’re fantasizing, I’d take Tim Duncan over KG.

 

[slinslin]

Wally isn't even playing so far because he is injured.