2004 draft/possible trades

[creed]

Originally posted by slinslin
Wally isn't even playing so far because he is injured.

Well Marbury is playing for our side and he scored 30 pts, 9 assists, and 7 rebounds last night. Remember that when you consider tossing him and Marion at Minny for KG


You guys miss the point....Point is Marion isnt that overpaid...Point is Marion has good value. The grass is always greener on the other side folks....dont learn it the hard way. Marbury and Marion are a vital part of this team. They arnt well coached and to me they arnt being used as effectively as they could be. We've had some stupid coaches and it shows!

 

[slinslin]

Not 2004 draft but probably someone to keep an eye on.

http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6981

 

[slinslin]

Here is a bold trade proposal

Phoenix trades

Jake Voshkul
Joe Johnson
Trybanski
Top 7 protected 2004 pick if necessary or Clevelands pick, depends on how high the Wizards still are on Kwame.

Phoenix receives
Kwame Brown



Lineup

White/Williams
Kwame/Googs/Archibald
Marion/ - pickup- Dermarr Johnson
Penny/Jacobsen
Marbury/Barbosa

When healthy

Kwame/White/Williams
Amare/Zarko/Googs
Marion/Zarko/Dermarr
Penny/Jacobsen
Marbury/Barbosa


Reasoning? Kwame has talent and in my opinion simply needs change to succeed.
He is also capable of playing both PF and C equally well in the West which fixes the Suns needs for a center and backup PF.

 

[cly2tw]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I think other teams would be weary of Shawn Marion's contract. I certainly don't think he is major trade bait.

Joe Mama

I agree. It's why I liked the Insider trade proposal of trading him for Wallace.

The main point is not how good a SF Marion is. It's about whether with 10 mil. we could get player(s) that better fit this team's core of Amare and Steph in the long run.

 

[George O'Brien]

I thought this was going to be a serious thread. Garnett is making $27.8 million this year. Next year his contract drops to $16 million and then rises to $24 million by 08/09. He is not going anywhere.

Rather than worrying about fantasy trades like JJ for T Mac, etc. I am more interested in knowing if there is somone who is very unhappy with the team he is playing on AND is a proven star. Deals like for Barkley came because he wanted out. Penny got traded because he and the Orlando management were at odds.

Another approach is to find someone who hidden on someone's bench. For example, if you want a deal that might be interesting, it would be to deal for Darko Milicic of Detroit. Milicic is getting no minutes and there is little doubt that Mehmet Okur is the guy Detroit expects to be their center of the future. At 7'1" and 253, Milicic has great skills as a shooter and could become a dominant player SOMEDAY.

To get Milicic would require giving up the First (projected to be a lotter pick) and at least two other players.

One other Detroit center mihgt be available. Zeljko Rebraca is listed at 7'257 and is considered a good interior defender and rebounder. He shot over 50% from the field his first two years and is at 4.5% this year. He is on the last year of his contract at $4.2 million. His rebounds per minute is He is playing under 9 minutes a game, so unless his health is a huge risk, he might be a good pickup up if the price is right.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I agree with you JC on the scottie pippen comparison. The only difference is we don't have a player who will dominate every night for Shawn to play alongside.

Steph hasn't really been consistant on the scoring this year, and Amare is a year or two away.

However, I think he will play nicely with his team once everyone developes.


Anyways, what the hell happened to this thread. I thought it was for the draft.

ABout a star player who is unhappy like Barkley was. Tmac is by far the most likely canidate. He is tired of having to carry the team completely night in and night out. He recognizes Orlando is going no where fast with its financial situation. He has an opt out after next season I believe. If orlando believes he will use it, they may actually be willing to trade him.

However, it will be very expensive talent wise to aquire him.


Milic is getting no minutes because that is what Larry Brown and Joe Dumars wanted all along. Big men usually come around slower, and they want to coach him in practice extensively before letting the media rape him for mistakes on the court. They have the luxary of bringing him around slowly, and it will likely pay off. He is definitely not available.


Pick wise, I havent looked at the draft possibilities that much this year yet, but if we land in the 5-9 range I say we try and package JJ and the pick for the rigts to Okafor.

 

[elindholm]

The McGrady dream is sort of fun to think about, except ... wouldn't the Suns be awfully hesitant to gamble on another injury-prone superstar guard from Orlando?

 

[George O'Brien]

wouldn't the Suns be awfully hesitant to gamble on another injury-prone superstar

One guy I had not heard of before is a high school kid from Korea which have him at 18. Unlike most of the players being considered, he is tall, strong, and agile: http://nbadraft.net/index.asp

Ha Seung-Jin
Birthdate: 8/4/85
NBA Position: Center
Class: HS Senior
Ht: 7-3
Wt: 305
Hometown: Seoul, Korea
High School: Yongesi University


NBA Comparison:

Ha Sueng-Jin has Yao Ming like qualities, with enormous size, good dexterity and composure. His touch on his shot is good, making Ha another Asian bigman sensation. Plus he has the quickness and size to be a shot blocker and a defensive presence. Ha will be able to break new ground as the first Korean player to ever play in the NBA. Ha has stated that he will declare for the 2004 NBA draft. One very encouraging note is that Ha can play a game all the way through without getting winded. Which is impressive considering his age and enormous size. Possibly most astounding is that X-rays reveal that he is still growing!

On Jan 30th SFX group went to South Korea and tested Seung-jin's agility, ball-handling skills and shooting ability over two days. Seung-jin was given rave reviews by the group. Before the change in the NBA's International eligibility rule, Ha was not eligible for the 2003 NBA Draft. He planned to stay in South Korea for another year while he earned his high school degree. After which he would head to the the United States to train. No word on whether Ha's plans have changed due to the change in the rule, however it's likely that Ha will stay with the plan and train for the 2004 draft. If all goes well, Ha Seung-jin will be the first Korean to make it to the NBA. As a sophomore he led his high school team to a 22-0 record, averaging 27 points and 10 rebounds per game. He has led his team to four championship titles including one at the National Sports Festival in Cheju last November.

Basketball in his genes: Ha's father, Dong-ki who is 6-6 tall, was a former member of the Korean National team that placed second at the 1978 Bangkok Asian Games. Ha's sister, also an astonishing 6-6, had a successful basketball career.

Lee Yun-hwan (Seung-jin's High School coach) on Ha:
"Even with such imposing height, he is nimble and shrewd, keying rallies at both ends of the court. He can play a game all the way through without losing his wind."

"After building his frame to perfect condition, he will become a competitive player in the U.S. As you can see, he is still growing. He has enormous potential", said Choun Soo-gil, an Internet sports columnist and webmaster for the Korea Basketball Association.

Injury concerns: Players of Seung-jin's size are prime candidates for knee and foot injuries. With injuries having ended or limited the careers of countless bigmen including Ralph Sampson, Gheorge Muresan, Arvydas Sabonis, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, and others. Both Ha's father and sister had successful basketball careers end prematurely due to injury. Staying healthy appears to be the biggest area of concern for him. "Health is the most important thing which my son should keep in mind," said Ha's 6-6 father Dong-ki.

Ha on his future:
"I will prevail on the court to realize what my father failed to accomplish. It's time for me to concentrate on practicing."

-----------------------------------------------------------
http://nbadraft.net/index.asp

ProBasketball About has him rated as the 8th pick, yet HoopsHype and Inside Hoops do not have him listed in the first round.

 

[slinslin]

Look at possibly the top 3 highschool kids

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/dwighthoward.asp
http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/randolphmorris.asp
http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/joshsmith.asp

All of them from Georgia.

Randolph Morris sounds very interessting. 6'10 and 245 and at the time they created that profile he was not even 17. Look at that picture...

I heard some people comparing his style to Tim Duncan while they compare Dwight Howard to Kevin Garnett.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
Look at possibly the top 3 highschool kids

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/dwighthoward.asp
http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/randolphmorris.asp
http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/joshsmith.asp

All of them from Georgia.

Randolph Morris sounds very interessting. 6'10 and 245 and at the time they created that profile he was not even 17. Look at that picture...

I heard some people comparing his style to Tim Duncan while they compare Dwight Howard to Kevin Garnett.

I can't say I'm all that excited about any of these guys. If the Suns get a lottery pick, they should get someone who would fill a need. None of them are big enough to be a solution at center. At power forward, these guys lack the physical presence of Amare nor the experienced skill level of Zarko.

 

[devilalum]

This thread depresses me.

I thought this was going to be the year the SUns started their run to the title. Maybe get a 5th or 6th seed, make a trade for the final piece during the off season and jump into the elite next year.

Instead it seems like they're going to have to start over. They don't have the right pieces, back to the drawing board AGAIN.

The main problem I see is that the Suns went from about 65mph to 70mph and about 3 other teams jumped pass them going 80.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by devilalum
This thread depresses me.

I thought this was going to be the year the SUns started their run to the title. Maybe get a 5th or 6th seed, make a trade for the final piece during the off season and jump into the elite next year.

Instead it seems like they're going to have to start over. They don't have the right pieces, back to the drawing board AGAIN.

The main problem I see is that the Suns went from about 65mph to 70mph and about 3 other teams jumped pass them going 80.

It has been a disappointing season, but the Sun has been making progress. The problem is that only the Kings have been able to win consistently without their top player. For example, the Mavs lost 4 in a row without Dirk and the Spurs were very ineffective when Duncan was injured. The Suns without Amare and Zarko simply lack the talent to be a playoff team.

On the plus side, the Suns are beginning to play as a team on offense. JJ is beginning to play like he did late last season, Barbosa shows great progress, Jacobsen is much better than last year, White has given the team inside toughness, and Marion is finally playing well after a slow start. Except for the Seattle game, the Suns have been playing better defense. But without Amare and Zarko, it is simply not enough to win.

Next year the Suns could be a contender with basically the same people as their younger guys get more experience. One or two role playes may be all it will take, but mostly they will need to be heatlhy.

 

[Joe Mama]

It doesn't help that since the coaching change the Suns have played all upper echelon teams. The only teams under .500 were the Clippers and the sonics. Well, they played the Clippers a game after Brand returned to action, and the Clippers set played very well since then. They beat the Sonics the first game in Phoenix in overtime, and the sonics got their star, Ray Allen, back in the other game. Both of those teams are better than their records.

Let's see what happens in this extract against more reasonable competition.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

Actually I just checked out Diogu's averages for this season. I knew he was playing very well but his stats are way more impressive than I thought.

25ppg 9rpg 1apg 2bpg 58%FG 40%3s 1.96 points per shot


Iguodala had his 2nd triple double of the season tonight, btw.

He now has 2 in UofA history.

Jason Kidd had 4 at California.

It was the 18th triple double in the pac10 since 1987.

Zarko's friend Radenovic had 17 and 9 in his debut for UofA.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
Actually I just checked out Diogu's averages for this season. I knew he was playing very well but his stats are way more impressive than I thought.

25ppg 9rpg 1apg 2bpg 58%FG 40%3s 1.96 points per shot

Diogu's stats are all the more impressive in that he does not have a strong a set of teammates as he did last year. I hope he hangs around long enough to build the ASU program.

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Diogu's stats are all the more impressive in that he does not have a strong a set of teammates as he did last year. I hope he hangs around long enough to build the ASU program.

Totally disagree with that. This years ASU team is more talented and athletic than last years. Only thing that last years team had was that they were together for 4 years.

This years team has been inconsistent, but you can see the potential of a few of their guys. The tilt with UofA is going to be fun to watch.

Diogu being triple-teamed half the game... makes his stats all that more impressive.

 

[George O'Brien]

Dan Gadzuric

Has anyone seen Dan Gadzuric of the Bucks play? His contract is up this summer and his box score is not that bad:

7.2 ppg, 53.4% from the field, 5.9 rpg. 1.79 blocks per game in 19.2 minutes per game. He's listed as 6'11" 240 with a great wing span. He's making under $600,000.

His numbers are comparable to those of Mehmet Okur of Detroit:

7.6 ppg, 41.7% from the field, 7.2 rpg, 1.0 blocks per game in 23.3 minutes per game. Mehmet is listed at 6'11" 249.

Any thoughts?

 

[SirStefan32]

Dan would be a very good back up for Amare and Jake.

 

[Chaplin]

I disagree. While his statistics make him look pretty good for a team with unskilled personnel (with exceptions of course), those numbers would undoubtedly fall, even as much as half, if Gadzuric played in the Western Conference.

No thanks. I didn't like him and UCLA and I wouldn't like him on the Suns--his value in the East is a lot different than his value in the West.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
Dan would be a very good back up for Amare and Jake.

I agree.
Furthermore (as a broken record) I repeat that he (and Prince) would have been a better pick than Jacobsen.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I disagree. While his statistics make him look pretty good for a team with unskilled personnel (with exceptions of course), those numbers would undoubtedly fall, even as much as half, if Gadzuric played in the Western Conference.

No thanks. I didn't like him and UCLA and I wouldn't like him on the Suns--his value in the East is a lot different than his value in the West.

That's why I asked. The thing that got my attention was that he is a shot blocker, but I know many shot blockers are not good defenders overall.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by elindholm
Marion compared to Garnett is an absolute BARGAIN. Garnett isn't worth two Marions and thats what it works out to.

I'd much rather have Garnett than two Marions. I've been watching the Wolves a fair amount this season, and Garnett is unbelievably good. Right now I'd say he's the best player in the league.

I love Garnett. I agree that he is either the best "overall" player in the NBA or close to it. However, his contract is a terrible burden to the Timberwolves. How many times have they made it out of the first round of the playoffs? (never) The reason why is they don't have the money to spend to get players around Garnett to help him. No one, including Garnett, can win a championship alone and His contract makes it impossible for them to win with him. I would never want Garnet for his salary. The only way that he will ever win a championship is if he does the Magic Johnson thing and reworks his contract to get players around him. I don't see that happening because why would any player ask to make less money? Never happens, and I don't think that Garnett will do that. There just aren't any more Magic Johnsons in the NBA (ie players that are more concerned about championships then money).

 

[scotsman13]

i'll just go over a couple points that have been made on this topic.

marbury and marion for garrett:
this trade would be dumb. first of all you are giving up over 40+ points, 11+ rebounds, 8+ assist, 3+ steals, and 1.5+ blocks for a player who has never been able to get his team out of the first round of the playoffs.

garrett is a great player who has a lot of skills but when it comes down to doing what needs to be done during the playoffs he has never been able to do it.

trade marion:
marion is a better player all the way around then some of the people that a lot of you have thought to trade him for. marion does so much more then wallace it isnt even funny and he doesnt come with the bagage that wallace does. but wallace makes more money. marion is a player that will make the perfect 3rd player on this team behind amare and marbury in the next couple years.

one thing that i think is funny some of the same people that are saying that marion is over paid averaging 19 points and 9 boards at the small forward spot, this is a player who has averaged 20 and 10 at times in his career. and these are very rare players at the power forward spot or center but to get that out of a small forward is amazing.

draft:
if for some reason the suns are in the lottery again this year i would say that we should be looking for a big man who is very raw but with a good mind set. a person who you can let take some time to develop. right now this team is looking to be about 10 deep. marbury, marion, amare, jj, barbosa, zarko, jake, white, harvey, and penny. that leaves casey, trybanski, and williams out of the loop.

now i would love for the suns to be able to move hardaway in the expantion draft or for him to opt out of the last 2 years of his contract. the suns ready need to be looking at a 8 man rotation of marbury, jj, marion, amare and white with barbosa, zarko and jake coming off the bench.

kwame brown:
kwame brown equals an early derrick coleman. lots of skill and no heart. barkley once say that DC had the skill to be the best power forward in the nba, but not the heart. it is the same with kwame lots of skills and no heart. he has now had a change in coaches that was going to give him every chance to progress (eddie jordan). and he still hasnt shown any heart.

 

[boisesuns]

i'm not sure about the draft. are we going keep relaoding? at some point, we need to establish a core(it seems like we have a good one now) and build around it with role players and vets that compliment our core. i know we are a run and gun team, but a smart veteran who can come in and hit shots or play defense would do wonders for the suns. especially when we have the "4th quarter frank" symptoms

experience can go along way in the close games. i like the youth movement, but i think we can eventually compliment it better.

 

[elindholm]

No one, including Garnett, can win a championship alone and His contract makes it impossible for them to win with him.

Garnett has a monster salary this year, but starting next year, he makes just a little more than Marbury.

2004-05: Garnett $16 million, Marbury $14.6 million
2005-06: Garnett $18, Marbury $16.4
2006-07: Garnett $20, Marbury $18.3

And so on. Both are signed through 2008-09.

Is Garnett's contract really hindering the Wolves any more than Marbury's is hindering the Suns? Over the last few years, including this one, sure. But after that, no way. Compared to most stars in the league, Garnett is a virtual bargain starting next year.

Minnesota's only bad contract is Szczerbiak's. Cassell and Olowokandi are both cheap, and everyone else (including Sprewell) is expiring this year or next.

I'd say that Minnesota is in much better shape than Phoenix right now, and a large part of that is because Garnett agreed to a reasonable extension -- something the Suns, apparently, never gave either Marion or Marbury the chance to do, preferring instead to overpay them at the first available opportunity.