2006 Cardinals: Coaching Regimens

[Pariah]

it wouldn't have acheived anything

That basically means the Bidwills have given up. If they've given up, how can they expect the players, and more importantly, the fans to stick with the program?

That's what it would have achieved--the sense that being 1-7 IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. By keeping the status quo, the message they've sent is one of "oh, well. There's always next year.

Maybe that doesn't show up in the record books this year, maybe it does. But it sure as heck would show up in the lockeroom (which, by all acounts is pretty chaotic and confrontational right now).

 

[Pariah]

Where is that message coming from ?

I seriously doubt MB is ending that message

That message is coming from inaction on the part of ownership.

Not all messages come in a memo.

 

[kerouac9]

Where is that message coming from ?

I seriously doubt MB is ending that message

Definitely Rod "We were not 1 or 2 players away" Graves.

But turning off the tap in free agency after the Edge signing didn't send a message that we were doing everything possible to succeed this season.

Sitting on $10 million in cap space (regardless of the reason) at the beginning of the season didn't send that message.

Actions count a lot more than words do, and the players understand that they got black shoes and not a better offensive tackle or weakside linebacker in free agency.

 

[az1965]

So, why was Denny so successful in Minnesota???

a) There has been speculation that he rode his assistants. How can someone do that for several years so successfully?

b) There also have been speculation that Denny did not bring in anyone significant here so he can keep total control and can call all shots as has been the case with Rowen where Rowen claims that Denny at times took over play calling. So Denny did not do this in Minnesota?

The above two seem to contradict each other. So what is it? I'm just trying to honestly understand what has happenned as I do believe that overall coaching and team readiness has been really poor. Was Minnesota an anomaly? I can understand 2-3 years of that but 8/10 years cannot be considered an anomaly, right?

 

[ajcardfan]

So, why was Denny so successful in Minnesota???

a) There has been speculation that he rode his assistants. How can someone do that for several years so successfully?

b) There also have been speculation that Denny did not bring in anyone significant here so he can keep total control and can call all shots as has been the case with Rowen where Rowen claims that Denny at times took over play calling. So Denny did not do this in Minnesota?

The above two seem to contradict each other. So what is it? I'm just trying to honestly understand what has happenned as I do believe that overall coaching and team readiness has been really poor. Was Minnesota an anomaly? I can understand 2-3 years of that but 8/10 years cannot be considered an anomaly, right?

I'm starting to think once a coach or player puts on a hat with this on it, their IQ drops 50 points instantly.

 

[az1965]

I'm starting to think once a coach or player puts on a hat with this on it, their IQ drops 50 points instantly.

hard to argue...

 

[Mitch]

So, why was Denny so successful in Minnesota???

a) There has been speculation that he rode his assistants. How can someone do that for several years so successfully?

b) There also have been speculation that Denny did not bring in anyone significant here so he can keep total control and can call all shots as has been the case with Rowen where Rowen claims that Denny at times took over play calling. So Denny did not do this in Minnesota?

The above two seem to contradict each other. So what is it? I'm just trying to honestly understand what has happenned as I do believe that overall coaching and team readiness has been really poor. Was Minnesota an anomaly? I can understand 2-3 years of that but 8/10 years cannot be considered an anomaly, right?

Here's a possible answer:

1. The NFC Central during the Green years was pitiful, except for some of the Green Bay teams. That's a real advantage if a team can count on 4 easy wins a year...they only have to play .500 in the other games to go 10-6.

2. Cris Carter..."all he does is catch touchdowns"...was as clutch a WR in tight situations as there ever was. Take Carter off those teams and who knows? Having Randy Moss on the other side...and Jake Reed...man, that trio was unstoppable, at a time when teams were far less prepared to defend the 3 WR system...now teams are much better prepared, as nickel backs are much more talented and the schemes are much more sophisticated.

3. Notice how many times Green's teams self-destructed in playoff games...one year Green's team coasted through the NFC Central and lost to the Giants 41-0 in the playoffs...which seems very odd for any playoff team to get that soundly trounced, especially a high seed.

4. The OCs and DCs Denny had have turned out to be very good HCs...Billick (a Super Bowl win) and Dungee (this year?)...

And look at how well Billick is doing calling the plays now for the Ravens? Something DG has refused to do, even though he fired the OC. Interstingly, did you see Cris Carter's recent column where he claimed that DG wouldn't call the plays...and said, "he never has."

Carter said this because he knows how hands-off DG is.

 

[az1965]

Interesting thoughts, Mitch...

4. The OCs and DCs Denny had have turned out to be very good HCs...Billick (a Super Bowl win) and Dungee (this year?)...

So these were not "yes men" to Denny like there is claim that he has brought in Arizona? I know there were similar issues highlighted when Denny was hired about Halgrave, Solomon,... Maybe Denny lucked out in Minny with his OC's and DC's and not so much here in AZ.

Interstingly, did you see Cris Carter's recent column where he claimed that DG wouldn't call the plays...and said, "he never has."

Carter said this because he knows how hands-off DG is.

Wow, this is as first-hand info as you can get... amazing.

 

[nidan]

But turning off the tap in free agency after the Edge signing

Total and utter speculation

Sitting on $10 million in cap space (regardless of the reason) at the beginning of the season didn't send that message.

Depends on if you wanted to be resigned

Actions count a lot more than words do, and the players understand that they got black shoes and not a better offensive tackle or weakside linebacker in free agency.

Sure and you know we could have had ... who ? In reality you just believe that BB Snr resfused to sign anybody else to save cash.

The facts do not support your position. He has spent that cash, hence he was not trying to be cheap. You just think it should have been spenty differently.

 

[nidan]

Guys the bottom line here is simple.

If you want to say that he Cardinals should have spent their cap money eariler, fine.

However suggesting it was because the Cardinals are cheap just doesn't hold up. They have now spent the bulk of theitr cap cash, hence it follows they were not saving it to be cheap/pay off stadium costs etc.

You can argue that it would have been better to spend it in FA, maybe so but there really wasn't many to spend it on that were not past their prime and would have come here.

You basic point thast the Cardinals are being cheap is proven wrong as they have spent just about all of it by my calculations.

 

[Mitch]

Interesting thoughts, Mitch...

So these were not "yes men" to Denny like there is claim that he has brought in Arizona? I know there were similar issues highlighted when Denny was hired about Halgrave, Solomon,... Maybe Denny lucked out in Minny with his OC's and DC's and not so much here in AZ.

Wow, this is as first-hand info as you can get... amazing.

The thing is...Denny's OCs and DCs have the autonomy to call their own shots...what coordinators wouldn't want that?

 

[kerouac9]

:sigh:

Total and utter speculation

Bolstered by multiple independent media reports as well as the obvious.

Depends on if you wanted to be resigned

At the expense of winning football games? Do you want a guy who's more concerned with getting his than winning games?

Sure and you know we could have had ... who ? In reality you just believe that BB Snr resfused to sign anybody else to save cash.

The facts do not support your position. He has spent that cash, hence he was not trying to be cheap. You just think it should have been spenty differently.

LBs: Will Witherspoon. Akin Ayodele. David Thornton. Scott Fujita. Ken Amato. Nai'il Diggs. Keith Adam. Sam Cowart. Ben Leber. All of these guys would have at most pushed for starting spots and at least would have provided depth so that we wouldn't have had to start Calvin Pace in Week 1.

OT: Kevin Shaffer. Stockar MacDougle. Kenyatta Walker. Tom Ashworth. Mike Pearson. Mike Williams. Orlando Brown. Damion McIntosh. Todd Steussie. Torrin Tucker. Ephrain Salaam. Again, these guys aren't world beaters, but you know that our backup LT that we brought to camp was Fred Wakefield.

No matter how many times people post lists like this, you seem to ignore them.

My post didn't assert that the Cards were cheap. They spend money, and they do most offseasons. I think they're stupid about football decisions and don't spend money wisely and that they don't care about winning--at least as their number one priority. I think that the evidence tends to support these conclusions, and I note (again) that you don't offer any support to your own opinion. If you have any, I think we'd love to hear the reasoning.

 

[nidan]

What is their #1 priority then ?

It isn't saving cash as they have spent it

As for your list, you said it yourself, those guys aren't world beaters backups/depth at best. Depth might help but it would not have cured our OL woes.

 

[kerouac9]

What is their #1 priority then ?

It isn't saving cash as they have spent it

As for your list, you said it yourself, those guys aren't world beaters backups/depth at best. Depth might help but it would not have cured our OL woes.

OT depth would have helped in that you could try Leonard Davis at LG again. And you could move Reggie Wells to C and not leave Oliver Ross out there to fail. But we'll never know, will we?

And LB depth would have helped because we wouldn't have started Pace and we wouldn't have started Orlando Huff, for sure. We probably could have landed another depth cornerback so we wouldn't have had to start Matt Ware or Robert Tate. We wouldn't have had to play Darryl Blackstock so much when James Darling went down.

I think that the Cards' #1 priority is making money. They have a long and recent history of trying to make the "big splash" to keep fans interested while ignoring the little things that teams do to get better in the offseason. Signing Edge then ignoring depth. Signing a flashy HC and then limiting his budget for assistant coaches. Making headline-grabbing re-signings while the team is 1-6. Signing Emmitt Smith for way, way more than was his value on the open market. Doing the same thing for Kurt Warner. These are things that are designed to get the fan buying tickets (preferably season tickets) and then finishing up after the stadium is as full as you're going to get it.

 

[Pariah]

You basic point thast the Cardinals are being cheap is proven wrong as they have spent just about all of it by my calculations.

They're either cheap or stupid. Personally, I think cheap is the lesser of two evils. Please try to keep that in mind when I infer that the Bidwills have a tight grip on the team wallet. I'm going easy on them.

And, btw, if they'd spent more money on the OL this past offseason they could have signed DD and Hayes tomorrow and been just fine with the cap space situation.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Here's a possible answer:

1. The NFC Central during the Green years was pitiful, except for some of the Green Bay teams. That's a real advantage if a team can count on 4 easy wins a year...they only have to play .500 in the other games to go 10-6.

Walter, your case would so be emboldened if you didn't constantly make ridiculous statements as part of your evidence.

You do realize that during the 90's, the Lions made the playoffs SIX times, mostly throughout the early 90-mid 90s and then the Bucs took over for them when they fell apart and came of age making the playoffs 3 of 4 years at the end of the decade and all of this while the Packers were CONTINUALLY in the playoffs during that decade? And this doesn't even count the Bears who went 11-5 both in 1990 and 1991 (making the playoffs) and then went 9-7 in 1994 and 1995 (making the playoffs in 1995)

Basically, out of 6 playoff teams, more often than not, HALF OF THEM came from the NFC Central throughout the 90's. How that possibly makes the NFC Central "pitiful" is beyond me.

Can you explain how a division which regularly got at least 1/3 of all playoff teams, and more often than not 1/2 of all playoff teams in the NFC was "pitiful"?

That's not to say DG's still a good coach. He should have been fired yesterday as far as I'm concerned, but he was a good coach back in the day and no amount of nitpicking or flat out makign things up is going to change that. Sometimes, the game just passes people by. That and IMO the addition of horrendous managment limiting who he could hire/stocking the team with talent is the reason he's been horrendous here.

 

[Renz]

Walter, your case would so be emboldened if you didn't constantly make ridiculous statements as part of your evidence.

You do realize that during the 90's, the Lions made the playoffs SIX times, mostly throughout the early 90-mid 90s and then the Bucs took over for them when they fell apart and came of age making the playoffs 3 of 4 years at the end of the decade and all of this while the Packers were CONTINUALLY in the playoffs during that decade?

Basically, out of 6 playoff teams, more often than not, HALF OF THEM came from the NFC Central throughout the 90's. How that possibly makes the NFC Central "pitiful" is beyond me.

Can you explain how a division which regularly got at least 1/3 of all playoff teams, and more often than not 1/2 of all playoff teams in the NFC was "pitiful"?

That's not to say DG's still a good coach. He should have been fired yesterday as far as I'm concerned, but he was a good coach back in the day and no amount of nitpicking or flat out makign things up is going to change that. Sometimes, the game just passes people by. That and IMO the addition of horrendous managment limiting who he could hire/stocking the team with talent is the reason he's been horrendous here.

Good analysis. Green has sucked here, but I just shake my head when people say he was "lucky" in Minnesota. No one makes the playoffs 8 times in 10 years out of "luck".

Green "was" a good coach, just not for us.

 

[SuperSpck]

Originally Posted by Mitch
Here's a possible answer:

1. The NFC Central during the Green years was pitiful, except for some of the Green Bay teams. That's a real advantage if a team can count on 4 easy wins a year...they only have to play .500 in the other games to go 10-6.

The NFC West during the Green years is typically considered the worst in football (3 years running!)

 

[Cheesebeef]

You basic point thast the Cardinals are being cheap is proven wrong as they have spent just about all of it by my calculations.

you're not a math major are you Nidan?

apparently, we sit on almost 4 million dollars under the cap for the rest of the year. How 4 MILLION DOLLARS is "just about spending" all of it.

good call though. No - the Bidwills aren't cheap or stupid and the reason we've been horrific for 50 years isn't because of either or those two rweason also... riiiiiiiiiiight!

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/1107cardsnb1107.html

and you can't tell me that the Defense wouldn't have been beter with a Will Witherspoon and Will Allen/R.W. McQuarters (all of which had interviews planned which were mysteriously cancelled after we signed Edge) back there instead of Mackage-esque crap with Huff/Pace or Matt Ware getting playing time - or if they weren't so cheap and instead of re-signing their own trash in Reggie Wells, they took that money and along with the boatload of cash they already have, at least ATTEMPTED to sign Hutch.

give me a break Nidan. "According tomy calculations" - must be the same calculator Rod Graves used when saying we've spent to the cap and beyond this year.