2008 NFL Draft

[SuperSpck]

Wow, with all the clamoring for Adrian Peterson a couple of weeks ago, to see the notion of a fast back quickly abandoned is quite surprising. What the team offense needs to complete the Steelers West that Whiz seems to be looking at is an effective (sorry JJ) speed back ala Parker to complement James in the Bus role.

Here's some guys I'm trying to learn more about, but whom I'm interested in:

Tim Hightower, Richmond

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Jalen Parmele, Toledo

[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Adrain Smith, Bethel

[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Danny Woodhead[/SIZE][/FONT], Chadron State

[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Chris Johnson[/SIZE][/FONT] , East Carolina


[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]All that said, it's exciting, but WAAY to early for this thread. Mostly I'm still waiting for playoffs.
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[Gee!]

I smell a slight bit of homerism with all this Antoine Cason talk.

Like you dont have homerism with Miami or FL players.. ok dude..

 

[dogpoo32]

Like you dont have homerism with Miami or FL players.. ok dude..

Rolle WAS a stud, Cason is a stud. Only time will tell. The Cards have to pick Cason if he is there. Rolle was supposed to be an amazing corner, it didn't work out. Dust off and try again. Can't pass this one up.

 

[Gee!]

Rolle WAS a stud, Cason is a stud. Only time will tell. The Cards have to pick Cason if he is there. Rolle was supposed to be an amazing corner, it didn't work out. Dust off and try again. Can't pass this one up.

Exactly.. But Cason is everything Rolle wants to be..

I know Imma UofA fan, and it might off some folks.. But cmon.. UofA turns out good defensive players.. Chris McAlister, Tedy ya know.. Cason fits right in line with that.. Every five or so years the Wildcats have a stud, and Cason is the next one.. Cason is a true corner.. Even Sun Devil fans arent disagreeing.. Which should tell people something..

 

[82CardsGrad]

Exactly.. But Cason is everything Rolle wants to be..

I know Imma UofA fan, and it might off some folks.. But cmon.. UofA turns out good defensive players.. Chris McAlister, Tedy ya know.. Cason fits right in line with that.. Every five or so years the Wildcats have a stud, and Cason is the next one.. Cason is a true corner.. Even Sun Devil fans arent disagreeing.. Which should tell people something..

Lance Briggs?

 

[Gee!]

Lance Briggs?

See, defense.. UofA only produces defensive players.. Although I wouldnt put Briggs on the level of Tedy or McAlister, he's still adequete..

 

[82CardsGrad]

See, defense.. UofA only produces defensive players.. Although I wouldnt put Briggs on the level of Tedy or McAlister, he's still adequete..

 

[Vermont Maverick]

I refuse to even think about this now.

The goal is to be picking no higher than 21, and I don't care who that is.

 

[slanidrac16]

Heres the problem I have with the draft. Teams pick for need and then expect the player to fill that need immediately. Thats a huge mistake. If your team has a glaring need you go out and fill it with a free agent. The hole is then filled.
There are only a small percentage of rookies that come into the NFL and have a huge impact. I have no problem with this Cason kid if you think he is that good.

 

[slanidrac16]

Heres the problem with the draft. Teams make the mistake of drafting for need and then expecting a rookie to fill that role. If your team has a glaring need then that should be addressed in free agency. NOW your hole is filled. Rookies should not be expected to contribute from day one especially if you believe your team is a real contender for a playoff spot. A team like the Rams or Miami are in a position to let a rookie learn on the fly. I would like to think we are finally in a position not to want to do that.

Asomugha should be a guy we go after. Hole filled. I would still be happy if we were to draft Cason if he is the best athlete available.

CB has been a problem with this team since AW left. It is one area of the team that needs to be addressed and finally fixed this next off season.

 

[Matt L]

I agree with slanic. I just read more about jonathan stewart for ORE, and if we are picking later in the draft and he is there. i say take him!

 

[Big Deal]

Darrin from Bewitched(either one) would be an upgrade to Rolle at this point.

3/5

 

[Shogun]

Exactly.. But Cason is everything Rolle wants to be..

Pssh. Again with this selective/hindsight talk. Unlike Rolle, Cason isn't even the best corner in his draft (which is shaping up to be a doozy BTW), so all this "have to take him" talk is ridiculous.

I laugh at how people condemn Rolle for his average speed, yet praise a guy who is VERY similar just because he's local. Antoine Cason is basically an Dante Hughes clone with a hair more athleticism. Still not as Rolle coming out.

I like him, but he's overrated.

 

[cardsfanmd]

I agree with slanic. I just read more about jonathan stewart for ORE, and if we are picking later in the draft and he is there. i say take him!

Yeah, that kid is a stud.

 

[Shogun]

How many INT's did Rolle have in his college career? The answer is 5 and he played more as a freshman by far than the average freshman CB at Miami. Rolle had 183 tackles in his college career, and only 5 picks, I don't know why anybody is surprised that in his NFL career he's a good tackler who's not that good in coverage?

Cason has 4 picks already this year, and had 10 in his first 3 years so he's going to have approximately triple the number of picks Rolle did in college.

Totally different type of player Rolle is a guy who makes a lot of tackles and was a very effective blitz guy, Cason is a guy who's better in coverage.

AGAIN with this selective hindsight.

What does the amount of games matter? When Rolle played (not started) in the eight games as a freshman, you act as if he caught 3 of the 5 that year. Cason has started every game since he got to Arizona, which totals to be more overall appearances. Soooo, I'm really not seeing your point with that one.

Miami corners routinely play @ LOS. That's the type of the defense we play. Why are you going to penalize him for that? Are you also going to blame Rolle for not getting interceptions because hardly NO ONE threw at him in college while at the same time praising one player who stats could be attributed to a pass happy conference?

You don't draft a player who shut people down with BNR play routinely and put him 10 feet off everytime expecting the same results. I don't care who it is, you're setting him up for failure.

 

[joeshmo]

Pssh. Again with this selective/hindsight talk. Unlike Rolle, Cason isn't even the best corner in his draft (which is shaping up to be a doozy BTW), so all this "have to take him" talk is ridiculous.

I laugh at how people condemn Rolle for his average speed, yet praise a guy who is VERY similar just because he's local. Antoine Cason is basically an Dante Hughes clone with a hair more athleticism. Still not as Rolle coming out.

I like him, but he's overrated.

Talk about selective. Cason is an all american 4x100 relay sprinter this past Spring. He is also a punt returner. If Rolle has just average speed then Cason has good speed minimum.

I agree on the usage of Rolle and why he hasnt done well in the NFL, but to say the Cason has similar speed is you doing exactly what you are blaming others of doing, being selective or revisionist.

 

[Russ Smith]

AGAIN with this selective hindsight.

What does the amount of games matter? When Rolle played (not started) in the eight games as a freshman, you act as if he caught 3 of the 5 that year. Cason has started every game since he got to Arizona, which totals to be more overall appearances. Soooo, I'm really not seeing your point with that one.

Miami corners routinely play @ LOS. That's the type of the defense we play. Why are you going to penalize him for that? Are you also going to blame Rolle for not getting interceptions because hardly NO ONE threw at him in college while at the same time praising one player who stats could be attributed to a pass happy conference?

You don't draft a player who shut people down with BNR play routinely and put him 10 feet off everytime expecting the same results. I don't care who it is, you're setting him up for failure.

Well I think you're being selective because you're a Miami fan. My main objection to Rolle before the draft was he's a bump and run corner coming into a league that is making reducing allowed contact a point of emphasis. In the first minicamps he was in all we heard over and over was this kid is going to set an NFL record for penalties if he doesn't adjust to how they call contact in the NFL now.

I don't think it's a coincidence they had him playing so far off, first off, Solomon was an idiot. Secondly, they apparently watched him enough in practice to know if he played tight it would be a parade of flags for holding, PI and illegal contact. They also correctly noted that when he's not able to play that physically, NFL WR's were able to get off the LOS against him and then his lack of turn and run quickness/speed was a huge problem. Solomon is gone, and he still plays further off the WR than any other CB on the roster.
Pendy is still here do we REALLY believe that Pendy is just not very smart and hasn't realized yet that he's putting Rolle at a disadvantage? Isn't it just possible that Rolle himself chooses to back off because of his problems?

I didn't really get the act like he caught 3 of the 5 as a freshman comment my point was despite playing very early for a Miami CB(which would indicate they thought he was REALLY good), he never got a lot of picks. he played on some teams with terrific talent in the secondary(Taylor), some very good pass rushes. Basically the people don't throw at him thing came from their matchup with Pitt where he held Fitz in check and as has been mentioned over and over, Miami had something like 12 sacks that day. There are a LOT of college CB's who can cover a WR when the QB is getting sacked that often. Maybe Miami does like to play their CB's that way but I would argue it's not working because of late they haven't exactly had success with their CB's translating well to the NFL? Rolle, Rumph and Buchanon none of them have exactly panned out in the NFL so maybe Miami should rethink how they use CB's in their defense?

In general CB's who get a lot of INT's in college do so for a reason, it usually means they have pretty good hands(Rolle's hands are terrible he's dropped more picks than he's made by far). It means they might be able to play the ball in the air well(Rolle doesn't) and it means they are willing to take chances instead of let the guy catch it and then tackle him.

I'm not saying Cason will be the next Champ Bailey but he has done enough in college to suggest that he might be a better cover CB in the NFL than Rolle, because he has actually been USED as a cover CB in college and done quite well at it.

I don't live in arizona by the way I have no home bias to Cason beyond he's the guy that DeSean Jackson of Cal says is easily the best CB he's faced in college since he's been at Cal.

 

[Shogun]

Talk about selective. Cason is an all american 4x100 relay sprinter this past Spring. He is also a punt returner. If Rolle has just average speed then Cason has good speed minimum.

Straight-line speed =/= football speed. I just don't see it - him running on the track team be darned.

 

[joeshmo]

Straight-line speed =/= football speed. I just don't see it - him running on the track team be darned.

Which is why I added his Punt return skill. Being that punt returners have to be more shifty then straight line speed. How about the fact that he averages 30+ yards per INT return. He has hips to go along with that straight line speed.

 

[Shogun]

Well I think you're being selective because you're a Miami fan. My main objection to Rolle before the draft was he's a bump and run corner coming into a league that is making reducing allowed contact a point of emphasis. In the first minicamps he was in all we heard over and over was this kid is going to set an NFL record for penalties if he doesn't adjust to how they call contact in the NFL now.

I've watched him longer than most have so of course I have feelings involved. I have to be selective because no one seems to remember how good he was coming out of the draft and no one gives him any respect.

I don't think it's a coincidence they had him playing so far off, first off, Solomon was an idiot. Secondly, they apparently watched him enough in practice to know if he played tight it would be a parade of flags for holding, PI and illegal contact. They also correctly noted that when he's not able to play that physically, NFL WR's were able to get off the LOS against him and then his lack of turn and run quickness/speed was a huge problem. Solomon is gone, and he still plays further off the WR than any other CB on the roster.

Pendy is still here do we REALLY believe that Pendy is just not very smart and hasn't realized yet that he's putting Rolle at a disadvantage? Isn't it just possible that Rolle himself chooses to back off because of his problems?

I could have told you the bolded part myself. Physicality is the name of his game, not finess.

Maybe Miami does like to play their CB's that way but I would argue it's not working because of late they haven't exactly had success with their CB's translating well to the NFL? Rolle, Rumph and Buchanon none of them have exactly panned out in the NFL so maybe Miami should rethink how they use CB's in their defense?

They were all first rounders and some of the best corners to ever come out the school. What is there to re-think? Buchanon WAS awesome with the Raiders, but he was on the outs in Oakland, asked to be traded and unfortunately lost to the injury bug in Houston. He's back on the come-up now with TB, and we can go back and forth over Rolle and how he is being totally misused (potential for penalties or not). Rumph had a VERY bad transition, but with that said, he was never on the other two's talent level.

In general CB's who get a lot of INT's in college do so for a reason, it usually means they have pretty good hands(Rolle's hands are terrible he's dropped more picks than he's made by far). It means they might be able to play the ball in the air well(Rolle doesn't) and it means they are willing to take chances instead of let the guy catch it and then tackle him.

I never said Rolle had good hands, and again, how do you expect him to be able to take chances when you constantly play him outside of what he is comfortable doing and excels at?

I'm not saying Cason will be the next Champ Bailey but he has done enough in college to suggest that he might be a better cover CB in the NFL than Rolle, because he has actually been USED as a cover CB in college and done quite well at it.

Rolle is a cover corner - just a cover 2. But if you want to compare the two playing off their man 10 yards - then yes, Cason is a better at that than he is.

I don't live in arizona by the way I have no home bias to Cason beyond he's the guy that DeSean Jackson of Cal says is easily the best CB he's faced in college since he's been at Cal.[/quote]I have a massive woody for Jackson, but does that speak more for the fact that Cason is that good - or the fact he hasn't faced that many quality corners? Looking at the teams he played, I'd have to say the latter.

 

[Russ Smith]

I've watched him longer than most have so of course I have feelings involved. I have to be selective because no one seems to remember how good he was coming out of the draft and no one gives him any respect.

I could have told you the bolded part myself. Physicality is the name of his game, not finess.

They were all first rounders and some of the best corners to ever come out the school. What is there to re-think? Buchanon WAS awesome with the Raiders, but he was on the outs in Oakland, asked to be traded and unfortunately lost to the injury bug in Houston. He's back on the come-up now with TB, and we can go back and forth over Rolle and how he is being totally misused (potential for penalties or not). Rumph had a VERY bad transition, but with that said, he was never on the other two's talent level.

I never said Rolle had good hands, and again, how do you expect him to be able to take chances when you constantly play him outside of what he is comfortable doing and excels at?
Rolle is a cover corner - just a cover 2. But if you want to compare the two playing off their man 10 yards - then yes, Cason is a better at that than he is.

I don't live in arizona by the way I have no home bias to Cason beyond he's the guy that DeSean Jackson of Cal says is easily the best CB he's faced in college since he's been at Cal.

I have a massive woody for Jackson, but does that speak more for the fact that Cason is that good - or the fact he hasn't faced that many quality corners? Looking at the teams he played, I'd have to say the latter.[/QUOTE]

I guess I'm puzzled as to exactly how you think the Cards should be playing Rolle? The NFL doesn't allow the kind of contact he got away with at Miami. That was my whole complaint when he was drafted we just picked a guy to play CB who's entire game is based on something the NFL has announced they're doing away with. It's like taking a PG who's a great dribbler but palms the hell out of the ball the same year the NBA announces we're no longer allowing palming its a point of emphasis this year to call it. We knew in minicamp Rolle was in trouble because of all the reports that when they brought in refs Rolle was getting flagged over and over.


He has to learn to play CB the way the NFL currently calls it, or change positions.

My point on how Miami plays their CB's is that their CB's aren't doing very well in the NFL so their approach isn't working. I think you'll find most Raider fans and anybody who lives in the bay area and saw Buchanon play a lot would disagree with your "awesome" claim. Buchanon was a terrific punt returner and made some big plays, pick sixes, he had very good hands and he was aggressive. He also got beat more than any CB I have ever seen that had his level of athletic ability, he was so aggressive teams baited him into going for picks and then burned him. And he was infamous for stupid penalties. He had the one bizarre game where he had a punt return TD, an INT return TD allowed like 3 TD passes and had a crucial personal foul late that cost them the game. After that game Tim Brown said "Philip giveth and Philip taketh away." He is/was a phenomenal athlete but he's never been even a good NFL CB because he got beat so often gambling.

Maybe he's better now I haven't seen him play this year I know he was hurt alot the last few years.

Exciting as hell but for a guy with his skill level is was astonishing how often he got beat in Oakland.

 

[john h]

I was looking over the prospect for the first round and this class looks stacked. At least 4 excellent RB's a couple of good QB's, and a ton of CB's. I think no matter where we pick it would be hard to miss in this draft.

A couple of good 1st rounders in my mind are the QB from Kentucky. I have watched several of his games and he can flat fire the ball on target. I doubt he is a sleeper but he will be taken sooner than later. McFadden here in Arkansas is breaking records but not as good as last year as teams are doubling up on him. I think he has already past 1000 yards. The guy that people may be overlooking is McFadden's running mate Felix Jones. He is running wild as a RB, kickoff, and punt returner. Really really fast.

 

[CardLogic]

Maybe Miami does like to play their CB's that way but I would argue it's not working because of late they haven't exactly had success with their CB's translating well to the NFL?

My point on how Miami plays their CB's is that their CB's aren't doing very well in the NFL so their approach isn't working.

I agree with everything your saying on this topic, Russ; except for the statements quoted.

Why should U of Miami change their CB technique? It works for them under NCAA rules and refereeing standards. Unless you consider college football's main function to be a minor league system for the NFL; which some people do, I am not one of them; Miami has no need to change. Their approach is working for them.

Rather, NFL personnel staff need to be aware that because a player had a good career as a CB at Miami doesn't mean his skill set will carry over to being an NFL CB. I think this is what you are really saying, isn't it?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Thomas, from USC, is a better prospect than Cason,imo. He's bigger and faster. Malcolm Jenkins,if he comes out is probably the best prospect. Shogun, how good is Calais Campbell from Miami. He's got tremendous size and numbers.Can he play a 3-4 DE.

 

[Russ Smith]

I agree with everything your saying on this topic, Russ; except for the statements quoted.

Why should U of Miami change their CB technique? It works for them under NCAA rules and refereeing standards. Unless you consider college football's main function to be a minor league system for the NFL; which some people do, I am not one of them; Miami has no need to change. Their approach is working for them.

Rather, NFL personnel staff need to be aware that because a player had a good career as a CB at Miami doesn't mean his skill set will carry over to being an NFL CB. I think this is what you are really saying, isn't it?

I mean strictly for NFL development. Miami's not that good these days but it's not the defense it's the offense. It works in college but their CB's
that get to the NFL aren't excelling.

I just don't see the point of saying remember how good Rolle was in college because he's not in college anymore and they won't let you play like that in the NFL.

He's in the wrong era they just don't allow the contact right now.