2011 Draft Thread

[Covert Rain]

I think you're selling him short as a rebounder but I wouldn't bust the bank trying to get him either.

Steve

Not sure that I am selling him short as much as playing the odds. Players rarely improve rebounding from College to the NBA when they are undersized. Even when they are not undersized (i.e. Lopez) many can't match what they did in college.

The last thing this team needs is another undersized PF that will probably struggle at the next level on the boards. I just don't want to gamble a proven commidity for that type of player. The price is too high.

Hell if I was to gamble and could not move up to get Burks then I stand pat and maybe take a chance on Faried. He put up some sick rebounding numbers which were probably overinflated but he showed up in the tourney getting 18 against Florida and 12 against Ohio. He also has a number of double doubles against top 25 teams. You could stay pat and go after Morris who averaged 13.6 Pts and 8.3 RPG and he is a legit 6'10".

Those guys at least have the prospects of further solidifying your rebounding without giving up everything to get Williams at #2.

 

[TJ]

I don't want to see them trade Gortat for anyone is this draft.

Agree. Gortat is on the small list of indispensables on this team. He proved time and time again he is capable of filling to void at center we've had for a very long time. Something RoLo has been very inconsistent at.

Him, Dudley and Nash are part of the solution. We need help everywhere else

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Suns absolutely need to go after that #2 pick. Matt Self brings up the expectations of players picked in the Top 3 but have you actually gone and looked at the Top 3 picks for the past 10 years? Its like a 50% hit rate.

Derrick Williams can be a Sean Marion type player with better moves in the paint and a purer jump shot. But he can absolutely be a 16-18 8 rebound guy out the gate and giev us athleticism on the wing.

And learning from Grant Hill might make that ceiling a lot higher then your considering. Environment plays a big part in development too.

I really believe in the kid. When a guy like Sean Miller says "I have never coached and likely will never coach a kid as good as Derrick Williams" - that makes you take notice. I know I am going to get cited as a homer for saying this but only with Bibby was I sure that a UA player was going to translate well to the NBA. Hes a team guy and works hard. And he plays big in big moments.

Hope the Suns make that trade. A nucleas of Gortat and Williams would be something to build around. And maybe with some money dropping off in 2012 - Deron Williams?

Now I am dreaming. First things first. Lets get Williams.

 

[Covert Rain]

Suns absolutely need to go after that #2 pick. Matt Self brings up the expectations of players picked in the Top 3 but have you actually gone and looked at the Top 3 picks for the past 10 years? Its like a 50% hit rate.

Derrick Williams can be a Sean Marion type player with better moves in the paint and a purer jump shot. But he can absolutely be a 16-18 8 rebound guy out the gate and giev us athleticism on the wing.

And learning from Grant Hill might make that ceiling a lot higher then your considering. Environment plays a big part in development too.

I might just be cynical but I have no confidence the team would use him as a SF which is where he should play in the NBA. I agree that he could be an absolute stud at SF. I didn't mention that above.

I just have no confidence this organization wouldn't use him at PF and perpetuate the small ball play that has plagued this organization forever. Trading away our one and only legit big man for a SF who the Suns pigeon hole at PF would by a typical Suns move IMO.

If we could include Nash in a package to get him....fine. If we could package multiple picks to get him....fine. Just not keen on trading him for our only legit big man which coupled with him play PF would guarantee small ball probably for the next 5 years.

 

[AsUdUdE]

Suns absolutely need to go after that #2 pick. Matt Self brings up the expectations of players picked in the Top 3 but have you actually gone and looked at the Top 3 picks for the past 10 years? Its like a 50% hit rate.

Derrick Williams can be a Sean Marion type player with better moves in the paint and a purer jump shot. But he can absolutely be a 16-18 8 rebound guy out the gate and giev us athleticism on the wing.

And learning from Grant Hill might make that ceiling a lot higher then your considering. Environment plays a big part in development too.

I really believe in the kid. When a guy like Sean Miller says "I have never coached and likely will never coach a kid as good as Derrick Williams" - that makes you take notice. I know I am going to get cited as a homer for saying this but only with Bibby was I sure that a UA player was going to translate well to the NBA. Hes a team guy and works hard. And he plays big in big moments.

Hope the Suns make that trade. A nucleas of Gortat and Williams would be something to build around. And maybe with some money dropping off in 2012 - Deron Williams?

Now I am dreaming. First things first. Lets get Williams.

two problems..

one what would it take to get to the #2 pick...

And two what is the diffeence between Williams and Beasley.. They seem like the same player minus the off-the-court issues...

 

[JCSunsfan]

I might just be cynical but I have no confidence the team would use him as a SF which is where he should play in the NBA. I agree that he could be an absolute stud at SF. I didn't mention that above.

I just have no confidence this organization wouldn't use him at PF and perpetuate the small ball play that has plagued this organization forever. Trading away our one and only legit big man for a SF who the Suns pigeon hole at PF would by a typical Suns move IMO.

If we could include Nash in a package to get him....fine. If we could package multiple picks to get him....fine. Just not keen on trading him for our only legit big man which coupled with him play PF would guarantee small ball probably for the next 5 years.

They would play him along side Frye--a pf that plays outside and a sf that slashes inside. Perfect.

Honestly, having Fry makes picking an undersized pf that rebounds and plays D (like Faried) make sense.

 

[JCSunsfan]

two problems..

one what would it take to get to the #2 pick...

And two what is the diffeence between Williams and Beasley.. They seem like the same player minus the off-the-court issues...

It might be easier to get Beasley from Minny.

 

[mojorizen7]

I might just be cynical but I have no confidence the team would use him as a SF which is where he should play in the NBA. I agree that he could be an absolute stud at SF. I didn't mention that above.

I just have no confidence this organization wouldn't use him at PF and perpetuate the small ball play that has plagued this organization forever. Trading away our one and only legit big man for a SF who the Suns pigeon hole at PF would by a typical Suns move IMO.

If we could include Nash in a package to get him....fine. If we could package multiple picks to get him....fine. Just not keen on trading him for our only legit big man which coupled with him play PF would guarantee small ball probably for the next 5 years.

As usual you & i are on the same page here.

 

[AzStevenCal]

They would play him along side Frye--a pf that plays outside and a sf that slashes inside. Perfect.

Honestly, having Fry makes picking an undersized pf that rebounds and plays D (like Faried) make sense.

That's a good point. I love the kid's attitude and work ethic but I still think 13 is too high for him. I'd be thrilled though if we could trade the 13 for a pick in the low 20's and a future first round pick. In the 20's, Faried would be a nice pick. Unfortunately, his showing in the tourney might make him an earlier target for someone.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

As usual you & i are on the same page here.

I have no inside information but I think you're going to see some big changes in the not-quite-so-near future. I think the immediate future is a little hazy because the organization might feel the need to keep (and overplay) Nash until he's ready to retire or move on but once he's gone I think you'll see us target defense first. In fact, I think we may go overboard in that direction. Honestly, in 3 years, I think we're more likely to look like the Fratello Cavs than the Dantoni Suns. Hopefully, somewhere along the line they'll learn the value of balance.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

G

They would play him along side Frye--a pf that plays outside and a sf that slashes inside. Perfect.

Honestly, having Fry makes picking an undersized pf that rebounds and plays D (like Faried) make sense.

So who would rebound? We would be one of the worst rebounding teams in the league yet again.

 

[AzStevenCal]

G

So who would rebound? We would be one of the worst rebounding teams in the league yet again.

I think he's talking about playing Faried alongside Frye and Gortat. If so, I don't see how we'd be a bad rebounding team. Faried goes after every board like his life depends on it. But even if he's talking about Williams, he'd be an excellent rebounder at the small forward spot.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think he's talking about playing Faried alongside Frye and Gortat. If so, I don't see how we'd be a bad rebounding team. Faried goes after every board like his life depends on it. But even if he's talking about Williams, he'd be an excellent rebounder at the small forward spot.

Steve

that team could rebound, but holy crap would it be the most ineffective offensive front line in the NBA.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think he's talking about playing Faried alongside Frye and Gortat. If so, I don't see how we'd be a bad rebounding team. Faried goes after every board like his life depends on it. But even if he's talking about Williams, he'd be an excellent rebounder at the small forward spot.

Steve

I thought he was talking about Williams. That is who I was talking about when he responded so I am assuming that is what he is referring to unless he changed players on me. The assumption was that Gortat would be included to move up high enough to take Williams. I thought he was saying playing Williams next to Frye. Again, we would be horrid on the boards with no Gortat. Your rebounders would be Lopez/Frye/Williams. Guaranteed bottom dwellers in total rebounds.

If your talking Faried, my earlier post said that if you are going to gamble, stay where you are at, draft Faried. I agreed if your going to draft an undersized PF, give me the guy that is a rebounding monster that I don't have to trade the bank for.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I thought he was talking about Williams. That is who I was talking about when he responded so I am assuming that is what he is referring to unless he changed players on me. The assumption was that Gortat would be included to move up high enough to take Williams. I thought he was saying playing Williams next to Frye. Again, we would be horrid on the boards with no Gortat. Your rebounders would be Lopez/Frye/Williams. Guaranteed bottom dwellers in total rebounds.

If your talking Faried, my earlier post said that if you are going to gamble, stay where you are at, draft Faried. I agreed if your going to draft an undersized PF, give me the guy that is a rebounding monster that I don't have to trade the bank for.

He may well have been talking about Williams, I really wasn't sure. However, I still think that we'd be a much improved rebounding team if we were able to put Williams out there with Frye and Gortat. But yeah, put him out there with Lopez instead of Gortat and we'd have big problems.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

that team could rebound, but holy crap would it be the most ineffective offensive front line in the NBA.

You're right about that. Out of that three, Frye probably has the best post moves and if that doesn't scare you, nothing will. I think Gortat will improve in that area but not enough to make up for the other two.

Steve

 

[Gaddabout]

With Frye and Williams, maybe you could run the double-high post: You'd have to be doubly-high if you post that you like that duo on the floor at the same time, especially on defense.

 

[Cheesebeef]

why are we even talking about Williams? We have NOTHING to trade to get the #2 pick.

 

[AzStevenCal]

why are we even talking about Williams? We have NOTHING to trade to get the #2 pick.

Robin Lopez? Surely his size and his +/- stats are worth something.

Steve

 

[slinslin]

Farried has no business being drafted in the lottery. I don't care how good his rebounding numbers were against weak competition.

He is undersized and has absolutely no offensive skills whatsoever. You do not draft Turiaf, Amundson or Bo Outlaw at #13.

 

[slinslin]

why are we even talking about Williams? We have NOTHING to trade to get the #2 pick.

Gortat and #13. We could even throw in Dudley but I am not sure I would do that.

Minnesota might also be interested in Nash, at least they were mentioned as one team that asked about him several times.

Apparently Minnesota wants veterans for the #2 pick. They are set at the forward spots.

 

[slinslin]

I would be surprised. This is the highest the TW have ever picked and they don't have a first round pick in 2012 (it's now the Clippers). That draft is suppose to be the deepest in talent and they can't get in the lottery even if they suck. Also, that probably means that 2013 will probably be a thin draft class.

So, if they don't use this pick, they probably won't add any significant young talent until 2014. They would be stupid not to use the pick unless they get a fantastic trade. Sucks to be a Twolves fan.

The 2012 draft is overrated and will be the weakest ever by far if they raise the age limit.

Also Minnesota has enough young talent, look at their roster. They want to win games now, that is why they want to trade the pick.

They get little out of drafting Derrick Williams because they have Beasley and they are the same player basically.
They don't get much out of taking a risk with Kanter unless they are sold on him being a bonafide center in the league.

 

[slinslin]

Agree. Gortat is on the small list of indispensables on this team. He proved time and time again he is capable of filling to void at center we've had for a very long time. Something RoLo has been very inconsistent at.

Him, Dudley and Nash are part of the solution. We need help everywhere else

Nobody is indispensable on a team that was so absolutely old and mediocre as we were.

You do not get better by trading Chilldress or Warrick because nobody will take them and give up value for them. It would be us having to give up picks again to move them.

 

[slinslin]

G

So who would rebound? We would be one of the worst rebounding teams in the league yet again.

Huh?

Williams would be one of the best rebounders at the 3.

Asssume we traded Gortat and some sort of combination for Williams.


C - ?
F - Frye
F - Williams
G -
G -

Frye and Williams would make a good forward tandem. They compliment each other pretty well with Channings skillset.

If we could trade for Williams we should go full rebuild though, trade Nash, get additional picks. Put together a young new team around Williams.

Derrick Williams has shown to me at Arizona that he could be a team leader. To install a new defensive focus on this team it is necessary to clean the house first.

 

[Covert Rain]

Robin Lopez? Surely his size and his +/- stats are worth something.

Steve

Huh?

Williams would be one of the best rebounders at the 3.

Asssume we traded Gortat and some sort of combination for Williams.


C - ?
F - Frye
F - Williams
G -
G -

That is alot of assuming. These players are not going to come out of thin air and you are assuming alot. First off he gets fewer rebounds in the NBA IMO. Second, you still have no rebounding at the Center or PF which are more important positions to rebound from. You have basically replaced 10 to 12 rebounds for 8 if he can match what he did in college playing against bigger players. Again, odds are against him.

I will repeat myself. If we trade Gortat for basically Williams, we will be one of the worst rebounding teams in the league.

Frye and Williams would make a good forward tandem. They compliment each other pretty well with Channings skillset.

What skill set? You mean Frye's 3 point shooting? That is all he has. He occasionally will board. He had a 2 week stint where he went to the bucket then regressed to hanging out at the 3. He is a soft player most of the time.

Once teams figure out if they stay at home on Frye with a single player, they will pack the paint for anything Williams tries to do.

If we could trade for Williams we should go full rebuild though, trade Nash, get additional picks. Put together a young new team around Williams.

Derrick Williams has shown to me at Arizona that he could be a team leader. To install a new defensive focus on this team it is necessary to clean the house first.

I actually agree with you that the Suns would have to clean house if they made this trade. The problem is legit big men don't grow on trees. More than likely you would have to give up alot to get Williams and Nash has next to no trade value. Your not going to net a big man in return. Which leaves us searching for the next several years to find another if we are lucky.

Nice pipe dream but I still think you can't give up Gortat. We need Gortat to play next to Williams. Believe me I would love to have Williams if there was some way to package Nash, this years pick and future picks. If we could figure a way to do that....I do that in a heart beat.

Farried has no business being drafted in the lottery. I don't care how good his rebounding numbers were against weak competition.

He is undersized and has absolutely no offensive skills whatsoever. You do not draft Turiaf, Amundson or Bo Outlaw at #13.

He is no more undersized then Williams and is a better rebounder. As I mentioned above he showed up in the tournament and posted good double double numbers against top 25 teams in college. He has proven he can do it against good competition as well. Are his numbers inflated by playing in a weaker conference? Yes but even if he went from 15 rebounds to 10 he is a keeper in the NBA. Plus watch the tape. This guy has really impressed with his technique. Lopez could learn a thing or two.