2011 Offseason Thread

[95pro]

We don't need more MLE type role players.

We have enough role players tying up a majority of our capspace (Dudley, Warrick, Frye, Gortat, Childress, Brooks?, Crawford?). You can't build a team with just role players and those guys would probably use up 90% of the salary cap.

Plus I think Crawford couldn't co-exist with Nash. He loves the ball in his hands, he loves to isolate, he loves to take bad shots.

I don't really see the upgrade over Vince either. It wouldn't be much, Vince wasn't that bad for the most part.

really???

we need a rolleyes emoticon in here

 

[carey]

really???

Slin almost loses credit for every quality post he's ever made with that ********. Carter was a disaster here, and if I had to watch him in a uniform again I'd probably buy the NHL package instead.

 

[Irish]

Slin almost loses credit for every quality post he's ever made with that ********. Carter was a disaster here, and if I had to watch him in a uniform again I'd probably buy the NHL package instead.

I was upset with Gentry playing Carter. There was a zero chance of the Suns not exercising the buyout. He had a vew good games, but mostly he was not very good.

At this point I think Pietrus IS talented and the Sun played a lot better when he was healthy. None the less, I'm mostly expecting he'll get traded.

I get the impression a lot of people have given up on Childress. I thought he played pretty well late in the season after being very ineffective early on. In any case, I don't think he has enough trade value based on his late season work.

I'm not shocked people are down on Lopez. I have no idea why his play was so much worse than 2009-10. As with almost every big may, my suggestion is that he needs weight training and much more strength.

I have the some view of Warrick. Silar needs overall conditioning.

I'd be surpised if Lampe is NBA roster ready. It has been a few years, but he lacked the drive and agressiveness of a Gortat.

 

[leclerc]

I think the only untouchable is Gortat. Only trade Steve or Grant if they okay it. The rest are available.

I expect VC to be gone. If they do anything smart with his contract except save money I'll be surprised. Like getting high picks?

Chili and Brooks could be okay. If Pietrus could recognize a good shot we should keep him, but he does not. Get rid of him and Hack. Only trade Lopez if we get a good big man talent like DeAndre Jordan or Hibbert.

I hope we have some luck in the draft... boy, do we need that!

 

[slinslin]

Greg Oden is the only big time FA. If he can overcome the injuries (our medical staff seems pretty good) he is easily the #2 center in the NBA and can be a franchise player.

A risk worth taking. I'd be ok with signing him for 8M$/year. If he can't overcome the injuries he will have to be limited in minutes and be a very good backup.

 

[desertdawg]

Greg Oden is the only big time FA. If he can overcome the injuries (our medical staff seems pretty good) he is easily the #2 center in the NBA and can be a franchise player.

A risk worth taking. I'd be ok with signing him for 8M$/year. If he can't overcome the injuries he will have to be limited in minutes and be a very good backup.

Oden is a bust because of injuries, but pimp him all you like, it kinda makes sense, you jocking Oden and Lopez.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Greg Oden is the only big time FA. If he can overcome the injuries (our medical staff seems pretty good) he is easily the #2 center in the NBA and can be a franchise player.

A risk worth taking. I'd be ok with signing him for 8M$/year. If he can't overcome the injuries he will have to be limited in minutes and be a very good backup.

HOLY CRAP! 8 MILLION PER YEAR!?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read in my entire life.

I give him maybe 2 or 3 million per on a shirt term contract but the above is simply the dumbest thing any team in any sport could do in the history of sports.

 

[slinslin]

He will get 4yrs/40M$ from Portland most likely..

Where have you been in the last 20 years? Centers get paid and Oden is a franchise player if he overcomes injuries.

 

[Gwindor]

He will get 4yrs/40M$ from Portland most likely..

Where have you been in the last 20 years? Centers get paid and Oden is a franchise player if he overcomes injuries.

Yeah...
But... He will not.

 

[BC867]

Greg Oden is the only big time FA. If he can overcome the injuries (our medical staff seems pretty good) he is easily the #2 center in the NBA and can be a franchise player.

LOL. I think you'd promote your mailman (and I don't mean Karl Malone) over Gortat. Wassamatta U? Did Marcin accidentally step on your toe once leaving the arena?

 

[Mainstreet]

LOL. I think you'd promote your mailman (and I don't mean Karl Malone) over Gortat. Wassamatta U? Did Marcin accidentally step on your toe once leaving the arena?

BC867, I know you are a big fan of Gortat. Do you think the Suns should try to build around Gortat or consider trading him for younger players and picks? IMO, the Suns franchise is depleted in talent, so much so that it reminds me when the Suns traded Larry Nance for a nice trade package.

Unless the Suns can uncover a gem in the draft at #13 or do some kind of trade with Carter (perhaps not possible) I do not see them being a contender for years to come. I know the irony here is that the Suns have waited for forty years for a center, but if they may not be able to benefit from one because they do not have enough talent to go around him. I think Gortat is the only Suns player that can give them enough value in return to rebuild. I guess the Suns can wait a couple of years and see want happens but I thought I would throw it out there. Teams like the Grizzlies and The Thunder make the Suns look old.

 

[AzStevenCal]

BC867, I know you are a big fan of Gortat. Do you think the Suns should try to build around Gortat or consider trading him for younger players and picks? IMO, the Suns franchise is depleted in talent, so much so that it reminds me when the Suns traded Larry Nance for a nice trade package.

Unless the Suns can uncover a gem in the draft at #13 or do some kind of trade with Carter (perhaps not possible) I do not see them being a contender for years to come. I know the irony here is that the Suns have waited for forty years for a center, but if they may not be able to benefit from one because they do not have enough talent to go around him. I think Gortat is the only Suns player that can give them enough value in return to rebuild. I guess the Suns can wait a couple of years and see want happens but I thought I would throw it out there. Teams like the Grizzlies and The Thunder make the Suns look old.

I wouldn't have a problem trading Gortat if the right offer came along given that we're probably in rebuild mode for quite awhile. However, for me, the right offer would involve more assets coming our way than Marcin is currently worth. The dearth of quality big men and the fact that he's so clearly a team-first kind of guy raises his price tag quite a bit IMO. Stats notwithstanding, if you really watch this guy you can't help but love the things he brings to the team and you don't let that go without demanding something significant in return.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I wouldn't have a problem trading Gortat if the right offer came along given that we're probably in rebuild mode for quite awhile. However, for me, the right offer would involve more assets coming our way than Marcin is currently worth. The dearth of quality big men and the fact that he's so clearly a team-first kind of guy raises his price tag quite a bit IMO. Stats notwithstanding, if you really watch this guy you can't help but love the things he brings to the team and you don't let that go without demanding something significant in return.

Steve

I think some team would overpay for Gortat but I'm coming to the point I do not see an answer with the current ownership. IMO, the best case scenario is if Sarver would sell the team to an owner who is dedicated to winning a championship who would hire a GM and a coach dedicated to that vision.

 

[BC867]

I think some team would overpay for Gortat but I'm coming to the point I do not see an answer with the current ownership. IMO, the best case scenario is if Sarver would sell the team to an owner who is dedicated to winning a championship who would hire a GM and a coach dedicated to that vision.

I can speak only for myself, regarding these previous three responses. I would enjoy watching the Suns with Gortat anchored at Center for years to come.

I certainly can't hope for us to become an elite team, given our history of playing soft (and its consequences of bad calls), magnified by the current incompetent ownership.

But if we could add a quality backup Center, a legitimate backup Power Forward and (sadly) move Nash and move ahead with a replacement whom we could count on all season long (not an overwhelming task), I'd be satisfied at this point. Even with Frye at starting PF alongside Gortat.

If we get rid of Marcin, it's back to one big man on the court and that represents weakness in the NBA. Steve may have been the league MVP twice, but over a full season, Gortat is the team MVP.

It's like the old cartoon of four pizzerias on one block. Their signs read:

Tony's Pizza -- best pizza in the city
Luigi's Pizza -- best pizza in the state
Antonio's Pizza -- best pizza in the world

Marvin's Pizza -- best pizza on the block

Getting rid of Gortat after one partial season is a tease that I would not enjoy, as a long-time Suns fan.

 

[95pro]

Greg Oden is the only big time FA. If he can overcome the injuries (our medical staff seems pretty good) he is easily the #2 center in the NBA and can be a franchise player.

A risk worth taking. I'd be ok with signing him for 8M$/year. If he can't overcome the injuries he will have to be limited in minutes and be a very good backup.

we need an intervention for ^^^^^ this guy...
cause he's obviouslly on crack!!!


**** man, you've been spewing out some crap lately

 

[Covert Rain]

I think some team would overpay for Gortat but I'm coming to the point I do not see an answer with the current ownership. IMO, the best case scenario is if Sarver would sell the team to an owner who is dedicated to winning a championship who would hire a GM and a coach dedicated to that vision.

I don't think there is when it comes to dealing with the Suns. The Suns are not a very well respected front office in the NBA. Everybody thinks the Suns front office bends over when pushed.

Big men are a premium in the NBA. Especially top 10 big men. You simply cannot trade away Gortat for picks and future prospects unless your getting a very high draft pick or a future player that is a lock as a big man somewhere in that mix.

I don't want to go back to the Suns of old searching season after season after season for a legit big man. I have had enough of small ball.

HOLY CRAP! 8 MILLION PER YEAR!?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read in my entire life.

I give him maybe 2 or 3 million per on a shirt term contract but the above is simply the dumbest thing any team in any sport could do in the history of sports.

I nearly fell out of my seat reading that as well. Holy crap. He has truly lost any sense of reality.

 

[Griffin]

The problem with Oden is that his qualifying offer will be at $9M for next season, which the Blazers will almost certainly give him to keep his RA rights. Any contract offer, therefore, will probably have to exceed that number per year (sort of like with Josh Childress last summer). Now should Oden actually come back and stay healthy next season, if the Blazers don't re-sign him now they'll have to overpay for him to keep him beyond next season. So they are in a difficult position, but with an owner with deep pockets and not afraid to spend, I wouldn't be surprised if they re-signed him now to a deal at around $9/10M a year. Huge risk, but wouldn't be the worst contract in the league.

Here's an article from a Portland paper that speculates on that:

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/or...f/2011/04/canzano_keeping_greg_oden_is_w.html

I wouldn't mind taking a gamble with Oden, but not at that price tag. And I don't think he'll be available much cheaper.

 

[slinslin]

The problem with Oden is that his qualifying offer will be at $9M for next season, which the Blazers will almost certainly give him to keep his RA rights. Any contract offer, therefore, will probably have to exceed that number per year (sort of like with Josh Childress last summer). Now should Oden actually come back and stay healthy next season, if the Blazers don't re-sign him now they'll have to overpay for him to keep him beyond next season. So they are in a difficult position, but with an owner with deep pockets and not afraid to spend, I wouldn't be surprised if they re-signed him now to a deal at around $9/10M a year. Huge risk, but wouldn't be the worst contract in the league.

Here's an article from a Portland paper that speculates on that:

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/or...f/2011/04/canzano_keeping_greg_oden_is_w.html

I wouldn't mind taking a gamble with Oden, but not at that price tag. And I don't think he'll be available much cheaper.

Just because the Blazers might give him the qualifying offer which is 1 year I doubt that Oden asks at least that on average or that the Blazers would match a multi-year offer.

The way Oden worded his response sounds like he might want to leave Portland, so Portland might be inclined not to risk it after having Brandon Roy on the roster.

No idea how far we could be under the cap under the new CBA but Oden seems to be the best option. It is a big risk, if it does not pay off we have a bad contract but it is not going to cripple us since we must rebuild through the draft anyway to get competetive. If he overcomes his injury history then we already have a franchise player to rebuild around.
Our future or situation right now can hardly get worse, so take a chance on a potential franchise player if you can imo.

 

[Cheesewater]

This Greg Oden talk is absurd.

Career 9 points, 7 rebounds guy.
Out of a possible 246 regular season games, has played in 82 of them.
Each of his 3 NBA seasons shortened by significant injuries.
2 microfracture surgeries, one in each knee.
1 fractured patella injury, 1 chipped kneecap injury (same knee).

But he was the #1 overall draft pick and he's only (?) 23 so...

 

[slinslin]

This Greg Oden talk is absurd.

Career 9 points, 7 rebounds guy.
Out of a possible 246 regular season games, has played in 82 of them.
Each of his 3 NBA seasons shortened by significant injuries.
2 microfracture surgeries, one in each knee.
1 fractured patella injury, 1 chipped kneecap injury (same knee).

But he was the #1 overall draft pick and he's only (?) 23 so...

The bottom line is when he is healthy and can play he has similiar defensive impact as Dwight Howard.

If you are going to spend money in the Suns situation, spent it on someone who has a chance to be a franchise player at least.

 

[Cheesewater]

The bottom line is when he is healthy and can play he has similiar defensive impact as Dwight Howard.

If you are going to spend money in the Suns situation, spent it on someone who has a chance to be a franchise player at least.

Similar?

Regular season averages for Dwight Howard:
Defensive rebounds 9.2, Steals 1, Blocks 2.2

Regular season averages for Greg Oden:
Defensive rebounds 4.5, Steals 0.4, Blocks 1.4

 

[slinslin]

Way to go by stats. Look at how Oden impacted the games when he was healthy and playing.

What the heck is the point of pointing out their career averages?

If you are going to mention it maybe you also point out that Howard played 36 mpg and Oden played 22mpg.

Break it down on a per minute basis and you will see a difference. Not to mention that 75% of Odens career stats are based on his rookie season. It is incredibly biased to take Oden's career stats and compare them to Howards career stats.

If you even out the minutes

Dwight career 36 mpg (3.6org 9.2drpg) 12.9rpg 1spg 2.2bpg 18.2ppg
Oden career 36mpg (4.5orpg 7.4drpg) 11.9rpg 0.65spg 2.3bpg 15.4ppg
Oden soph season 36mpg (4.7orpg 8.3drpg) 13rpg 0.61spg 3.5bpg 17ppg

Oden is not a bust because he is not talented. If he stays healthy he is easily leading the league in blocks by a wide margin (Bogut leads the league with 2.6 in 36mpg, Dwight gets 2.4 in 38mpg... Oden averaged 2.3 in 23mpg in his soph season..) and is in the top 3 in rebounding with Love and Howard.

Oden is a big risk because of injury but ten times better than investing money in players like Afflalo or Landry or Childress or Warrick...

High Risk, High Reward..

But I forgot Gortat is better than a healthy Oden!

 

[Superbone]

But I forgot Gortat is better than a healthy Oden!

I believe that's called an oxymoron.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Way to go by stats. Look at how Oden impacted the games when he was healthy and playing.

What the heck is the point of pointing out their career averages?

If you are going to mention it maybe you also point out that Howard played 36 mpg and Oden played 22mpg.

Break it down on a per minute basis and you will see a difference. Not to mention that 75% of Odens career stats are based on his rookie season. It is incredibly biased to take Oden's career stats and compare them to Howards career stats.

If you even out the minutes

Dwight career 36 mpg (3.6org 9.2drpg) 12.9rpg 1spg 2.2bpg 18.2ppg
Oden career 36mpg (4.5orpg 7.4drpg) 11.9rpg 0.65spg 2.3bpg 15.4ppg
Oden soph season 36mpg (4.7orpg 8.3drpg) 13rpg 0.61spg 3.5bpg 17ppg

this argument is complete and utter ******** for one reason. Even when healthy, this guy is a FOUL MACHINE and could never log 36 minutes if he tried. There's a reason he only gets 22 minutes per game, he'd foul out in the third quarter otherwise. 4 fouls per 22 minutes is horrific. his numbers are what they are and trying to extrapolate them out when he's never shown the ability to be able to stay on the floor for starter's minutes, injuries or no injuries is a complete and utter ******** argument.

 

[slinslin]

Last time I checked you can get 6 fouls before you foul out! Not that it matters, those are stats from his first 82 NBA games. We can assume staying out of foul trouble is a matter of experience as with all big man.

Fact is Oden was a game changer and Portland looked like the best team in the league before his last injury.

My preference would be to sign nobody except young prospects in FA until we have a young core in place to build around that makes it worthwhile surrounding cheap young talented players with veteran FAs to fill out and balance the roster. But if we are going to spend money spend it on Greg Oden or maybe Nick Young but not on the Warricks, Childress', Banks' of this world.