2014 Arizona Basketball

[Russ Smith]

Rabb was a heavy Arizona lean for a while. The tides turned over the past month or two.

In the end, Rabb wanted to be home more than mom wanted him home. Mom was fine with him going to Tucson.

Obviously, Cuonzo had an advantage with not being in the tournament so he could seal the deal. It was 50/50 at that time, but then shifted quickly to Cal's favor.

no it wasn't, not even Arizona sites were reporting it 50/50 heading into the tournament. Even this very board wasn't, Cal has been leading for awhile. Rabb said it himself yesterday, when Cuonzo Martin took the job and called him, he went for an unofficial visit and from that point forward, he was strongly considering Cal. It kills me when people do that like there's some website you can go to and accurately track where a 17 year old kid is leaning. The kid said he had been thinking Cal for quite awhile he just wanted to take his time to make sure he was making the right decision.

Miller was the leader early on because Monty didn't play the games you have to play to recruit the Soldiers. The only concession Monty ever made was hiring Theo Robertson, ex Cal player, ex Soldier. He got Bird because the dad played at Cal. Monty didn't want to have to deal with AAU coaches and baby sit players and all the stuff it took to get in with the Soldiers.

When Martin took over he immediately got in with the Soldiers. Cuonzo has a son who's on one of the younger developmental Soldiers squads. His first 2 phone calls as a head coach at Cal for recruiting were Ivan Rabb, and Oscar Frayer. Frayer committed first, he and Rabb have been friends since elementary school. they're probably going to get Milstead in 2017 and there's a couple of other kids that will probably play for the Soldiers next year that will be on Cal's radar. Martin realized when he got the job that he had to get in good with the Soldiers to keep local talent home, he's doing that.

Not making the tournament had absolutely no role in Cal getting Rabb, the kid wanted to stay home.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

So childish. If we get Lee we'll be better off next year anyways, obviously barring injury we're fine at 4/5, weaker at the 2/3.

 

[overseascardfan]

So childish. If we get Lee we'll be better off next year anyways, obviously barring injury we're fine at 4/5, weaker at the 2/3.

I disagree. ARZ is loaded at the 2/3 and aren't as deep in the front court particularly if there is an injury. No doubt ARZ would have been better with Rabb than without....no way to argue that. Question is can Comanche provide production off the bench? If ARZ can land a frontcourt transfer then the loss of Rabb stings less. My main concern is Martin building off Rabb's commitment as the first domino to fall for CAL as Russ mentioned he is starting to build a relationship with the Soldiers through his son so he could potentially throw a wrench in the pipeline. Did Rabb say he is staying 2 years? If so, CAL scored big.

 

[ozzfloyd]

Heard he has good info but a giant jerk. Even to his paying customers.

Apparently he rips Scout for stealing his info constantly.

ACE (PGU 'bag) is the actual info thief for the most part. Him and his minions swipe info from the other premium sites and then 'breaks' the news and pats himself on the back...He's also a convicted felon, and didn't go to UA...

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I disagree. ARZ is loaded at the 2/3 and aren't as deep in the front court particularly if there is an injury. No doubt ARZ would have been better with Rabb than without....no way to argue that. Question is can Comanche provide production off the bench? If ARZ can land a frontcourt transfer then the loss of Rabb stings less. My main concern is Martin building off Rabb's commitment as the first domino to fall for CAL as Russ mentioned he is starting to build a relationship with the Soldiers through his son so he could potentially throw a wrench in the pipeline. Did Rabb say he is staying 2 years? If so, CAL scored big.

What true wing is on the roster other than Pitts (who's mediocre) and Ray Smith who's a freshman coming off a torn ACL? Maybe Simon but everyone seems to think he's a year away. 98% of college programs would be thrilled with a Ristic/Anderson/Zeus/Comanche frontcourt. Lee is the bigger addition than Rabb as far as '15-16 goes.

Regarding Cuonzo, not worried. People will figure out he's a terrible coach once he does nothing with Rabb. Seriously other than Stanford no team underachieved more in the Pac more this year than Cal.

 

[Russ Smith]

I disagree. ARZ is loaded at the 2/3 and aren't as deep in the front court particularly if there is an injury. No doubt ARZ would have been better with Rabb than without....no way to argue that. Question is can Comanche provide production off the bench? If ARZ can land a frontcourt transfer then the loss of Rabb stings less. My main concern is Martin building off Rabb's commitment as the first domino to fall for CAL as Russ mentioned he is starting to build a relationship with the Soldiers through his son so he could potentially throw a wrench in the pipeline. Did Rabb say he is staying 2 years? If so, CAL scored big.

He's already built it. He didn't get Bird, they got him with Monty. But in the 4 classes they got Bird, nobody, Rabb and Frayer all from the Soldiers. in 17 they're the overwhelming favorite for Milstead.

Now with the exception of Rabb none of those are elites like Gordon and Johnson were, but there is no question that Martin going to Cal is going to make it tougher for Miller to clean up on Soldiers. Doesn't mean he won't still get some, and if martin's teams don't pan out his situation won't last either, but the situation has shifted now that Monty is gone and they have a coach who is actively engaged with the Soldiers.

I think you're pretty set at the 2, I'm not sure you're set at the 3. Smith is talented but he was skinny last time I saw him and coming off a knee surgery. I suspect UA going after Tollefsen and Lee so hard is a sign they don't think Smith is ready to be the starting 3.

Comanche should redshirt, I don't know if he will, depends on who else comes, but physically he's not ready. Talented kid with upside but unless he really gets strong fast, he's not ready for the pac 12.

Even Rabb isn't strong or tough enough yet but Comanche makes Rabb look like a bully by comparison.

This class has lots of talented good bigs, but very few are physically ready. They were talkign about it at the Hoop Summit, almost none of the bigs are strong enough and the ones that are like Stone and Swanigan are not in good shape.

 

[Russ Smith]

ACE (PGU 'bag) is the actual info thief for the most part. Him and his minions swipe info from the other premium sites and then 'breaks' the news and pats himself on the back...He's also a convicted felon, and didn't go to UA...

I heard he was kicked out of UA but who knows.

 

[overseascardfan]

What true wing is on the roster other than Pitts (who's mediocre) and Ray Smith who's a freshman coming off a torn ACL? Maybe Simon but everyone seems to think he's a year away. 98% of college programs would be thrilled with a Ristic/Anderson/Zeus/Comanche frontcourt. Lee is the bigger addition than Rabb as far as '15-16 goes.

Regarding Cuonzo, not worried. People will figure out he's a terrible coach once he does nothing with Rabb. Seriously other than Stanford no team underachieved more in the Pac more this year than Cal.

Trier, Simon and Smith can play SF as all three are at least 6'5, in addition to Pitts.

No team will admit to being better without a Top 10 recruit especially a post player in the Top 10. Anderson may be more developed in terms of body but Rabb is equally as talented if not more.

Pastner is a terrible coach that was able to land some recruits, like Russ said some kids prefer to stay home. Particularly when they think they will be getting major minutes to showcase their talent for scouts.

 

[Russ Smith]

Trier, Simon and Smith can play SF as all three are at least 6'5, in addition to Pitts.

No team will admit to being better without a Top 10 recruit especially a post player in the Top 10. Anderson may be more developed in terms of body but Rabb is equally as talented if not more.

Pastner is a terrible coach that was able to land some recruits, like Russ said some kids prefer to stay home. Particularly when they think they will be getting major minutes to showcase their talent for scouts.

I think it would be interesting to see if UA can play PJC, York and say Trier together for major minutes and not have issues size wise. Tarc is big, Anderson is a very good player, but if you play a team that has size at the guard spots or wing that lineup is awfully small.

 

[overseascardfan]

I think it would be interesting to see if UA can play PJC, York and say Trier together for major minutes and not have issues size wise. Tarc is big, Anderson is a very good player, but if you play a team that has size at the guard spots or wing that lineup is awfully small.

I've read Trier has like an 8ft wingspan so that would help him. Kentucky was the one team that had a size advantage at every position but even they fell short of a NC. Duke's lineup didn't have a lot of size, particularly in the backcourt.

 

[Russ Smith]

I've read Trier has like an 8ft wingspan so that would help him. Kentucky was the one team that had a size advantage at every position but even they fell short of a NC. Duke's lineup didn't have a lot of size, particularly in the backcourt.

True but both Cook and Jones were several inches bigger than PJC.

When he played this year he was fine on offense, he really had issues on defense because he's so small, not just postups, but just getting through screens, anything where his total absence of strength was an issue, he had to constantly cheat on defense to avoid screens. If you're playing him and York together you have 2 guys who are undersized, add in Trier at the 3 and you're putting an awful lot on Tarc who has never been a particularly great rebounder.

Trier to me is a terrific offensive player but not sure you can count on him to do much defensively and on the glass. UCLA got away with playing Powell at the 3 all year but he's a spectacular leaper, and was a senior, and the other 2 guards were both bigger than PJC and York.

Where it would work is on offense where York and Trier can really stretch the defense giving PJC room to penetrate and the bigs room to operate.

I expect this coming UA team to be much tougher to zone than in recent years, but much less effective on the glass, especially the offensive glass. If you get Lee that's even moreso since he can shoot the 3 too.

 

[overseascardfan]

True but both Cook and Jones were several inches bigger than PJC.

When he played this year he was fine on offense, he really had issues on defense because he's so small, not just postups, but just getting through screens, anything where his total absence of strength was an issue, he had to constantly cheat on defense to avoid screens. If you're playing him and York together you have 2 guys who are undersized, add in Trier at the 3 and you're putting an awful lot on Tarc who has never been a particularly great rebounder.

Trier to me is a terrific offensive player but not sure you can count on him to do much defensively and on the glass. UCLA got away with playing Powell at the 3 all year but he's a spectacular leaper, and was a senior, and the other 2 guards were both bigger than PJC and York.

Where it would work is on offense where York and Trier can really stretch the defense giving PJC room to penetrate and the bigs room to operate.

I expect this coming UA team to be much tougher to zone than in recent years, but much less effective on the glass, especially the offensive glass. If you get Lee that's even moreso since he can shoot the 3 too.

I get what you're saying but these are the guys Miller got. I'm sure any coach would love to get recruits who have the ideal size for their position but doesn't always happen unless you're UK.

I get the desire for Lee, he's a go to scorer, UA lacked down the stretch. I would hope for Johnathan Williams III, Shonn Miller or Mike Thorne in addition to Lee.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Ask Arizona's Finest what he thinks about the person who runs PGU.

Youve heard of "Speak softly and carry a big stick?"

Well hes the opposite. Small Stick. Talks LOUD.

Not a fan but ill give credit where its due. He does have good info.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

My guess on next years starting line up

Kadeem Allen (All reports are dude is a beast)
Trier (Best scorer/shooter Miller has recruited)
SJ (best case scenario) Lee (more likely scenario)
Anderson
Zeus.

PJC, York, Simon, Comanche, Tollefson, and Ristic off the bench.

I would bet dollars to donuts Smith is RS.

Pitts or York transfer. I think York has some major JET potential next year so I hope its not him.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Of course I wanted Raab. But Cal specifically made the Cuonzo hire to get Raab. Not much you can do. Kinda similar to ASU "eventually" hiring Sam Duane Jr to get Barcello and Bagley. Until Bagley moves to Vegas per Miller next year and blows that whole thing up

Miller was on Raab since 8th grade which sucks but its tough to beat the home team when they hire a coach JUST BECAUSE they want 2015 recruits. To Mao's point dude cant coach a paper bag so well see how that goes.

Im kinda over the one and done wing player. I think the only chance at Final 4 being led by a one and done is if you have a generational big. Is Raab that guy? I dont know.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Next year our defense and rebounding will be GREAT primarily cuz of Zeus. Dude doesnt get enough credit. Now maybe we have more fire power/pure shooting and it puts us over the top? I gotta think with or without SJ we win Pac. He would be difference between possible chip and Elite 8 imo though.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Im SO not worried about Cuonzo long term. This is the apex Golden Bears. Congrats. Now get ready to win 15-22 games and 3rd place finishes for next 3 years before you bring in the next savior.

 

[Russ Smith]

I get what you're saying but these are the guys Miller got. I'm sure any coach would love to get recruits who have the ideal size for their position but doesn't always happen unless you're UK.

I get the desire for Lee, he's a go to scorer, UA lacked down the stretch. I would hope for Johnathan Williams III, Shonn Miller or Mike Thorne in addition to Lee.

Can't have Williams. UA is on the list of teams he's not allowed to transfer too, I guess you guys play Missouri in the next couple of years and they put every team they play in those years on the not allowed to transfer to list.

 

[Russ Smith]

Of course I wanted Raab. But Cal specifically made the Cuonzo hire to get Raab. Not much you can do. Kinda similar to ASU "eventually" hiring Sam Duane Jr to get Barcello and Bagley. Until Bagley moves to Vegas per Miller next year and blows that whole thing up

Miller was on Raab since 8th grade which sucks but its tough to beat the home team when they hire a coach JUST BECAUSE they want 2015 recruits. To Mao's point dude cant coach a paper bag so well see how that goes.

Im kinda over the one and done wing player. I think the only chance at Final 4 being led by a one and done is if you have a generational big. Is Raab that guy? I dont know.

Not sure I follow. You're saying a guy that played at Purdue and coached at Tenn had some connection to Rabb that guaranteed he'd come to Cal if they hired martin? If you mean because he's black, from what you hear Cal absolutely made a strong point of wanting to have African Americans in the pool for the next coach. And I think him being black probably helps with the Soldiers, all you have to do is look at their own explanation of why they started that program, they specifically talk about wanting to increase opporunities for black coaches.

Martin had direct connections to Swanigan, his dad had some in with Swanigan's dad, but it didn't pay off. I'm not aware he had any ties to Rabb.

If they were going that route they would hire Lou Richie.

I haven't really followed his coaching career at TEnn. cal was very much what you get with a first year of a new staff, started well, collapsed midseason(when Bird was hurt) then played well again, and then collapsed again at the end largely due to lack of depth from what I saw.

I don't know him well enough to know if he can coach or not, wasn't obvious to me this year that Cal's issues were his fault. When Bird was healthy they were good, when Bird wasn't healthy they struggled to score and weren't very good.

 

[Russ Smith]

Next year our defense and rebounding will be GREAT primarily cuz of Zeus. Dude doesnt get enough credit. Now maybe we have more fire power/pure shooting and it puts us over the top? I gotta think with or without SJ we win Pac. He would be difference between possible chip and Elite 8 imo though.

I think Tarc is a very good defender, good positionally.

He's a horrible rebounder for his size, 5.2 RPG 26MPG for a 7 footer built like Montross? Johnson and Rondae both easily outrebounded him this year. I get that he's a block out guy, but I don't think his rebound totals suck because he's blocking out so others can rebound, I just think he can't rebound outside of a very small area. he had 16 more defensive boards this year than McConnell did. He can't rebound outside of a phone booth and he has very poor hands.

He'll have to really step that up next year. He only had double digit boards 3 times all season, for his size and strength that's not good at all.

You won't have Ashley or Rondae, if you lose Johnson as well that's 18.5 rpg you need to replace. Anderson is a pretty good rebounder 6-7 per game at BC.

I'd be surprised if York transfers now, every year that's the rumor and he stays. Unless he just doesn't think he's going to start and refuses to come off the bench again.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I think Tarc is a very good defender, good positionally.

He's a horrible rebounder for his size, 5.2 RPG 26MPG for a 7 footer built like Montross? Johnson and Rondae both easily outrebounded him this year. I get that he's a block out guy, but I don't think his rebound totals suck because he's blocking out so others can rebound, I just think he can't rebound outside of a very small area. he had 16 more defensive boards this year than McConnell did. He can't rebound outside of a phone booth and he has very poor hands.

He'll have to really step that up next year. He only had double digit boards 3 times all season, for his size and strength that's not good at all.

You won't have Ashley or Rondae, if you lose Johnson as well that's 18.5 rpg you need to replace. Anderson is a pretty good rebounder 6-7 per game at BC.

I'd be surprised if York transfers now, every year that's the rumor and he stays. Unless he just doesn't think he's going to start and refuses to come off the bench again.

Tarcs individual rebounding numbers aren't great but his role in Miller system is why we led the country in defensive rebounding this year and ranked high last year. His defensive positioning and as an anchor doesn't translate to defensive stats either. He would be a highly rated advanced metrics guy if that was a more developed Viewpoint in college game.

We will control the boards with Tarc there. Ashley was nowhere near as key and to your point Anderson actually may improve the rebounding with his body and way he uses it.

Rebounding is least of my concerns.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Not sure I follow. You're saying a guy that played at Purdue and coached at Tenn had some connection to Rabb that guaranteed he'd come to Cal if they hired martin? If you mean because he's black, from what you hear Cal absolutely made a strong point of wanting to have African Americans in the pool for the next coach. And I think him being black probably helps with the Soldiers, all you have to do is look at their own explanation of why they started that program, they specifically talk about wanting to increase opporunities for black coaches.

Martin had direct connections to Swanigan, his dad had some in with Swanigan's dad, but it didn't pay off. I'm not aware he had any ties to Rabb.

If they were going that route they would hire Lou Richie.

I haven't really followed his coaching career at TEnn. cal was very much what you get with a first year of a new staff, started well, collapsed midseason(when Bird was hurt) then played well again, and then collapsed again at the end largely due to lack of depth from what I saw.

I don't know him well enough to know if he can coach or not, wasn't obvious to me this year that Cal's issues were his fault. When Bird was healthy they were good, when Bird wasn't healthy they struggled to score and weren't very good.

There maybe no direct connection but there is no way in hell Cals AD makes THAT hire (mediocre 3 year weak sister power conference HC) without being linked in on how guys like Raab and Swanigan would view the choice. They hired Martin for this reason and all the while he was a so so recruiter at Tennessee and poor in game coach. What they did it because of his deep Cal roots? No way this was plan since Martin hired year ago. And they pulled off half of it.

The other extreme is they had NO idea they could get Swanigan, Brown, or Raab by making that hire. You believe that?

I don't have a doctorate on Cuonzo Martin history but that's my read.

 

[Russ Smith]

Tarcs individual rebounding numbers aren't great but his role in Miller system is why we led the country in defensive rebounding this year and ranked high last year. His defensive positioning and as an anchor doesn't translate to defensive stats either. He would be a highly rated advanced metrics guy if that was a more developed Viewpoint in college game.

We will control the boards with Tarc there. Ashley was nowhere near as key and to your point Anderson actually may improve the rebounding with his body and way he uses it.

Rebounding is least of my concerns.

Im not saying the kid sucks, but you guys were a great rebounding team the last 2 years because of guys like Gordon, Rondae and Stanley who were all exceptional rebounders for their position. Maybe you can argue Tarc gets fewer boards because he's competing with his own teammates but I'll be very surprised if he gets 8 rpg next season assuming his minutes go up.

He and Anderson are actually total opposites, Anderson was the only guy on BC over 4 RPG, they were a pretty small team and asked him to do the bulk of rebounding and he did, Tarc has been on some very big teams and despite being the biggest guy he's not a very good defensive rebounder. But we'll see, right now Anderson figures to be the only competition for rebounds he'll have next year.

I'm not sure what stat you mean, total rebounds, rebound % etc. so I can't comment on that but having guys like Stanley and Rondae as wings really helps your rebounding. If they're both gone that's tough to replace.

 

[Russ Smith]

There maybe no direct connection but there is no way in hell Cals AD makes THAT hire (mediocre 3 year weak sister power conference HC) without being linked in on how guys like Raab and Swanigan would view the choice. They hired Martin for this reason and all the while he was a so so recruiter at Tennessee and poor in game coach. What they did it because of his deep Cal roots? No way this was plan since Martin hired year ago. And they pulled off half of it.

The other extreme is they had NO idea they could get Swanigan, Brown, or Raab by making that hire. You believe that?

I don't have a doctorate on Cuonzo Martin history but that's my read.

The AD that hired Martin isn't even at Cal anymore. Sandy Barbour hired him, she's now at Penn State. I'm not a huge Cal follower but a good friend is, he said Barbour knew she was on the way out when she hired Martin. She got canned because of terrible money management. He was a surprise hire, if you remember Tenn didn't even know he was talking to Cal until he informed them he was leaving.

He left because Tenn has some major issues including apparently some overt racism by fans. He took over a team on probation because of Bruce Pearl, they lost transfers and recruits over all that so he took over a talented but short handed team. Almost right away the fans were petitioning to get him fired, starting web sites attacking him etc. his own players said when he left the fans got what they deserved. So I can't really judge if he can coach or not, he was apparently in a really bad situation almost no fan support, and working for people who actually thought Bruce Pearl should have been retained if not for the NCAA show cause ruling.

Monty retired, Cal didn't think the associate head coach was ready, and his agent connected the dots and set him up with Cal. I'm sure he had a plan with respect to Swanigan, but Rabb said he'd never met Martin until his first unofficial to Cal after Martin was hired. Rabb, Swanigan and Brown apparently all became good friends from camps and USA basketball camps.

I think he was smart enough to get if you want to succeed at Cal you need to keep the good local players home, at least the ones who are Cal level students. That's why he made Rabb and Frayer such a priority. He's also very heavily recruiting Sacramento, they're very involved with Solomon Young and Christian Terrell, both kids apparently are waiting on Cal offers because Cal is waiting on their academics. He's got some kids from his old connections but he's really trying to lock down Nor Cal.

I've seen him on tv a couple of times recently, he's a pretty interesting guy but again I don't have an opinion on him at Cal yet as a coach. One year with a bunch of injuries is hard to judge. I also happen to think Monty is a HOF level coach, just remarkable, so it's inevitable whoever got that job is going to look inferior by comparison.

I seriously doubt choosing Cal will have any impact on Rabb's NBA chances. He has to get stronger, tougher, and healthy. He's had one nagging injury after another the last year or so and really hasn't filled out physically like you'd hope. Monty and his staff were great with bigs, no idea what Martin's staff will do, they will probably have 2 years to do it though.

 

[Phrazbit]

The only thing I'm concerned about for next year is if our guards are going to be able to get the rest of the team involved. After having TJ McConnell the last 2 years I don't want to go back to a PG who plays like MoMo.

Hopefully one of the new guys has the distributor gene.