2014 Arizona Basketball

[Lefty]

I guess all the UA fans who made fun of Rabb picking Cal because they had no talent will apologize now.

I thought for sure he was going to Michigan after he dropped Kansas, clearly Rabb knew this was possible.

I thought he was UCLA's to lose not too long ago.

 

[TJ]

I guess all the UA fans who made fun of Rabb picking Cal because they had no talent will apologize now.

I thought for sure he was going to Michigan after he dropped Kansas, clearly Rabb knew this was possible.

Why should I apologize? That team has hardly any depth and has to rely upon two freshmen to start this season; whereas, UofA may only start one, and not out of necessity.

Besides, how many tournaments has Cuonzo been to in his coaching career?

Talent and coaching at Arizona is still superior to Cal.

 

[GatorAZ]

I guess all the UA fans who made fun of Rabb picking Cal because they had no talent will apologize now.

I thought for sure he was going to Michigan after he dropped Kansas, clearly Rabb knew this was possible.

They're still really small but will be fun to watch.

 

[Russ Smith]

I thought he was UCLA's to lose not too long ago.

I think he was until the last season. NOt all that long at Adidas Nations he publicly stated he was going to an Adidas school, wound up with Nike, so I guess KU and Michigan were surprised too

 

[Russ Smith]

Why should I apologize? That team has hardly any depth and has to rely upon two freshmen to start this season; whereas, UofA may only start one, and not out of necessity.

Besides, how many tournaments has Cuonzo been to in his coaching career?

Talent and coaching at Arizona is still superior to Cal.

Cal on paper has the best starting 5 in the conference and they have a good early class for 16. Rabb has said more than once he plans on 2 years unless he blows up top 5 pick.

So this year he's got Wallace, Bird and Brown with other pieces around him, next year they bring in Frayer and some other pieces and probably only lose Wallace and Brown since it's unlikely Bird goes.

So for 2 years Rabb will stay home and have talent around him.

You never know but would not surprise me at all if Cal competes for the conference title now. When he committed UA fans were saying Cal wouldn't even make the tournament because nobody believed the rumors they were in it for Swanigan and Brown, they got Brown which presumably Rabb had something to do with.

 

[Russ Smith]

They're still really small but will be fun to watch.

They have a 7 footer and a near one but neither of them are very good and the near one, Rooks, is always hurt.

Will be interesting to see if they start Okoroh at the 5, that puts Rabb 4, Brown 3, Bird 2 and Wallace 1. If it were me I'd probably start Singer for Okoroh but I don't think Rabb will want to play the 5 too much.

UCLA boards are all saying something is fishy as are KU boards but this recruitment has been weird all along.

 

[TJ]

Cal on paper has the best starting 5 in the conference and they have a good early class for 16. Rabb has said more than once he plans on 2 years unless he blows up top 5 pick.

So this year he's got Wallace, Bird and Brown with other pieces around him, next year they bring in Frayer and some other pieces and probably only lose Wallace and Brown since it's unlikely Bird goes.

So for 2 years Rabb will stay home and have talent around him.

You never know but would not surprise me at all if Cal competes for the conference title now. When he committed UA fans were saying Cal wouldn't even make the tournament because nobody believed the rumors they were in it for Swanigan and Brown, they got Brown which presumably Rabb had something to do with.

Few UofA fans that I know felt that. I felt Rabb made them a top 4 in the conference and a shoo-in for the NCAAs. Brown makes them a threat to win the conference, but without depth, they won't go very far in the tournament.

 

[Russ Smith]

Few UofA fans that I know felt that. I felt Rabb made them a top 4 in the conference and a shoo-in for the NCAAs. Brown makes them a threat to win the conference, but without depth, they won't go very far in the tournament.

I don't really buy they don't have depth, Okoroh, Matthews and Singer all started games last year, 2 of them probably won't start this year. They also have Rooks coming back and they have Behrens. That's 4 decent players off the bench. The problem was they were starting some bench guys last year due to injury and lack of talent.

They can easily start Wallace, Bird, Brown, Rabb and Okoroh with Matthews,Singer, Rooks and Behrens off the bench.

Generally speaking you need 7 or 8 good players, Cal should have that if they can stay healthy.

Speaking of depth I actually forgot Cal also gets Stephen Domingo eligible this year.

 

[GatorAZ]

Plz tell me CAL comes to McKale.

 

[Russ Smith]

FWIW Gershon posted on BRO today he thinks Cal is the clear cut favorite to win the conference this year with Brown.

There's talk that Shareef Abdur Rahim helped lure Brown to Cal.

 

[TJ]

FWIW Gershon posted on BRO today he thinks Cal is the clear cut favorite to win the conference this year with Brown.

There's talk that Shareef Abdur Rahim helped lure Brown to Cal.

"Clear cut" is not how I'd describe it. Gershon is a prisoner of the moment. Let's get through OOC play before we make those kind of proclamations.

People still have to remember that a) the best, most decorated coach in the conference resides in Tucson, b) UofA signed more quality players, likely none of whom will start because we don't need freshmen starting this upcoming year (that gets forgotten because they all signed eons ago), and c) Arizona has more depth.

I'm intrigued by what Cal has done so far, and they'll be far more competitive than their 7-11 conference record, but to say they're the "clear cut favorite" is ridiculous.

 

[Russ Smith]

"Clear cut" is not how I'd describe it. Gershon is a prisoner of the moment. Let's get through OOC play before we make those kind of proclamations.

People still have to remember that a) the best, most decorated coach in the conference resides in Tucson, b) UofA signed more quality players, likely none of whom will start because we don't need freshmen starting this upcoming year (that gets forgotten because they all signed eons ago), and c) Arizona has more depth.

I'm intrigued by what Cal has done so far, and they'll be far more competitive than their 7-11 conference record, but to say they're the "clear cut favorite" is ridiculous.

UA looks like this, correct me if I'm wrong.

Tarc, Ristic, Comanche
Anderson, Tollefsen
Smith, Pitts
York, Trier, Allen
PJC,Allen, Simon

That's 12 kids. Tarc, Anderson. Tollefsen and York are proven talents that have started at the D1 level although York has traditionally played better off the bench. So you have 3 kids who have done well as starters, only Anderson as a primary option.

We both know if Miller plays close to 12 kids this year it's because he's trying to find the right mix, like most coaches he doesn't want to play more than 8.

My guess is your core group will wind up being Tarc, Anderson, York, PJC, Trier, Tollefsen, Allen and then probably Pitts.

USA Today has you 12th and Cal 17th. For me the question is who's the go to guy, Anderson, Allen and Trier look like the best bets on that. And I expect a dropoff on defense, you lost a bunch of really good defenders.

 

[TJ]

UA looks like this, correct me if I'm wrong.

Tarc, Ristic, Comanche
Anderson, Tollefsen
Smith, Pitts
York, Trier, Allen
PJC,Allen, Simon

That's 12 kids. Tarc, Anderson. Tollefsen and York are proven talents that have started at the D1 level although York has traditionally played better off the bench. So you have 3 kids who have done well as starters, only Anderson as a primary option.

We both know if Miller plays close to 12 kids this year it's because he's trying to find the right mix, like most coaches he doesn't want to play more than 8.

My guess is your core group will wind up being Tarc, Anderson, York, PJC, Trier, Tollefsen, Allen and then probably Pitts.

USA Today has you 12th and Cal 17th. For me the question is who's the go to guy, Anderson, Allen and Trier look like the best bets on that. And I expect a dropoff on defense, you lost a bunch of really good defenders.

Arizona hasn't had a true "go to guy" since Derrick Williams. It's always been by committee because of all the surrounding talent.

Starters to begin the season, IMO:

Tarc
Anderson
Smith
York*
PJC

*Trier could start by the time conference play begins.

The thing is there are 12 guys there that could legitimately play and be significant contributors. Like you said, Miller has to trim it to 8. Comanche will most likely redshirt. Outside chance Pitts does, too. This is a good problem to have.

 

[Russ Smith]

Arizona hasn't had a true "go to guy" since Derrick Williams. It's always been by committee because of all the surrounding talent.

Starters to begin the season, IMO:

Tarc
Anderson
Smith
York*
PJC

*Trier could start by the time conference play begins.

The thing is there are 12 guys there that could legitimately play and be significant contributors. Like you said, Miller has to trim it to 8. Comanche will most likely redshirt. Outside chance Pitts does, too. This is a good problem to have.

I just mean who takes the big shots in close games. 2 years ago it was Nick, this past season it was Stanley and he wasn't nearly as effective at it as Nick was.

What I meant was saying UA goes 12 deep is misleading, they're not going to play 12, they probably won't even play 9.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Good. Let Cal have the preseason accolades. And Miller will take his guys and coach a circle around Martin. Tough to win with all the one and done guys and Ill be interested to see if Cuonzo will be able to coach 3 guys with LEGIT NBA aspirations next year into a winning team. And the talent gap isnt so wide where it wont matter.

I like us to still win the conference and DEFINITELY go deeper in March either way.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

As for next year? I have a different lineup:

Kadeem Allen
Gabe York
Alonzo Trier
Anderson
Tarc

I personally think Trier, Kadeem, and York are going to give us best offensive firepower we have had from perimeter since Terry/Simon/Dickerson/Bibby

 

[Arizona's Finest]

AND much more importantly - The only guys that leave after next year are Anderson and Tarc. Simon and Smith are 4 year guys IMO with Zo at least 2. Add TJ Leaf and whats sure to be a front court dominated recruiting class and I think well be fine next 2-3 years.

Cal will be reloading 2 maybe 3 of their studs. Better get it done this year Cal.

 

[Russ Smith]

Good. Let Cal have the preseason accolades. And Miller will take his guys and coach a circle around Martin. Tough to win with all the one and done guys and Ill be interested to see if Cuonzo will be able to coach 3 guys with LEGIT NBA aspirations next year into a winning team. And the talent gap isnt so wide where it wont matter.

I like us to still win the conference and DEFINITELY go deeper in March either way.

wait did they say jaylen brown or Mark Lyons?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

wait did they say jaylen brown or Mark Lyons?

Ill admit this joke is over my head. You think Rabb, Brown, and Wallace arent NBA bound in 2016? Or you think the talent disparity is larger then I am giving credit?

 

[Russ Smith]

As for next year? I have a different lineup:

Kadeem Allen
Gabe York
Alonzo Trier
Anderson
Tarc

I personally think Trier, Kadeem, and York are going to give us best offensive firepower we have had from perimeter since Terry/Simon/Dickerson/Bibby

Based on practice reports it would not be a stunner if Allen won the PG job although it would certainly be an unusual lineup with no pure PG.

Trier is really good and he shoots early and often, York is not a gunner but he's not a PG either. But that's definitely a potentially better defensive lineup because you don't have to worry about covering PJC and York, in that lineup you can play York on the smaller guy.

You should definitely shoot 3's better this year with Trier around.

 

[Russ Smith]

Ill admit this joke is over my head. You think Rabb, Brown, and Wallace arent NBA bound in 2016? Or you think the talent disparity is larger then I am giving credit?

No I'm saying that some guys are harder to coach than others and at least on rep none of Wallace, Brown and Rabb are Mark Lyons when it comes to being selfish and playing to impress NBA scouts.

Wallace isn't a PG, but he's not a gunner. Rabb if anything is too unselfish. Brown we'll see, I haven't seen a tendency for him to be selfish. Generally speaking when guys with NBA aspirations become a problem it's because they're being selfish.

Cal's weakness figures to be no pure PG, and probably their best lineup would have Rabb at the 5 and he may not be strong enough to do that.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Based on practice reports it would not be a stunner if Allen won the PG job although it would certainly be an unusual lineup with no pure PG.

Trier is really good and he shoots early and often, York is not a gunner but he's not a PG either. But that's definitely a potentially better defensive lineup because you don't have to worry about covering PJC and York, in that lineup you can play York on the smaller guy.

You should definitely shoot 3's better this year with Trier around.

Practice reports are why I like Kadeem. Like we were told with McConnell in 2013 he was the best player on the floor for the majority of practices. Thats saying something with talent we had last year.

I think Miller likes a traditional PG but I am not sure PJC is ready and even if he is, if Kadeem is as good as he sounds, then we want to get best 5 on the floor.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

No I'm saying that some guys are harder to coach than others and at least on rep none of Wallace, Brown and Rabb are Mark Lyons when it comes to being selfish and playing to impress NBA scouts.

Wallace isn't a PG, but he's not a gunner. Rabb if anything is too unselfish. Brown we'll see, I haven't seen a tendency for him to be selfish. Generally speaking when guys with NBA aspirations become a problem it's because they're being selfish.

Cal's weakness figures to be no pure PG, and probably their best lineup would have Rabb at the 5 and he may not be strong enough to do that.

I guess well see. Its always a maltov cocktail when you have to combine individual star agendas with team goals and Cuonzo isnt exactly Coach K. Or hell even Bruce Pearl. If it just took NBA talent UCLA would have finished better the last 2 years then they did. Problem is they have Caucasion Counzo on their sideline. I dont think either can coach their way of a paper bag or maximize their talent. But well see.

Ill actually say as much as Gordon and Johnson helped us last 2 years, while they are not selfish players by any stretch, I think having one and done guys as your key players (esp at wing) hurts any real ability to win anything of consequence in the tourney. It happens (i/e Kentucky and Duke this year) but cmon are we comparing the coaching, infrastructure, and depth of talent at Duke/UK to Cal? Please. More often then not it ends up like a Looney led UCLA or Russell led Ohio State.

Not to mention Freshman dont always adjust to the rigors or playing Pac 12 schedule night in night out. By a freshman led team, that could be problematic and i expect them to be incosistent over the course of the year. ALso playing with expectations is nothing anyone on the Cal roster is used to or has played with. Well see how that goes too.

My guess is my and friends on this forum are celebrating our 3rd staight Pac 12 title. But well see - thats why they play the games.

 

[Russ Smith]

I guess well see. Its always a maltov cocktail when you have to combine individual star agendas with team goals and Cuonzo isnt exactly Coach K. Or hell even Bruce Pearl. If it just took NBA talent UCLA would have finished better the last 2 years then they did. Problem is they have Caucasion Counzo on their sideline. I dont think either can coach their way of a paper bag or maximize their talent. But well see.

Ill actually say as much as Gordon and Johnson helped us last 2 years, while they are not selfish players by any stretch, I think having one and done guys as your key players (esp at wing) hurts any real ability to win anything of consequence in the tourney. It happens (i/e Kentucky and Duke this year) but cmon are we comparing the coaching, infrastructure, and depth of talent at Duke/UK to Cal? Please. More often then not it ends up like a Looney led UCLA or Russell led Ohio State.

Not to mention Freshman dont always adjust to the rigors or playing Pac 12 schedule night in night out. By a freshman led team, that could be problematic and i expect them to be incosistent over the course of the year. ALso playing with expectations is nothing anyone on the Cal roster is used to or has played with. Well see how that goes too.

My guess is my and friends on this forum are celebrating our 3rd staight Pac 12 title. But well see - thats why they play the games.

I'm not an Alford fan, I think he can coach but I think UCLA isn't getting his best for 2 reasons. One he brought his son with him and is trying to prove everyone wrong about how good his son is. That caused him to under recruit PG's which is why UCLA struggled so much on offense this year, losing Kyle exposed lots of issues that Kyle hid.

The other is he was of the opinion at UCLA he should swing for the fences, recruit nationally and play very fast up tempo to get the recruits. The first year was easy he had the roster to play that tempo, they were bad on defense but that's going to happen with the Wears and Kyle on the same team, no rim protection and Kyle couldn't guard. Last year he tried to run again but didn't have the personnel and it took him well into the conference season to figure that out and slow it down a bit to suit his roster.

I think if he survives long enough for Bryce to leave, he'll be a better coach, but I doubt he survives that long.

He needs a break, like Bolden sticking around. If Bolden stays 2 years the 2016 UCLA team could be really good, Lonzo Ball is special, put him with Bolden, Welsh, Ali, Holiday, Bryce, I Ham etc that's a team that could make a deep run. But I doubt Bolden sticks around he's made it clear he intended to be at UCLA 2 years and he's already been there one.

A big run that year buys Alford more time, if he doesn't make a big run he probably gets fired after the season since much of that roster would leave.

 

[Russ Smith]

Practice reports are why I like Kadeem. Like we were told with McConnell in 2013 he was the best player on the floor for the majority of practices. Thats saying something with talent we had last year.

I think Miller likes a traditional PG but I am not sure PJC is ready and even if he is, if Kadeem is as good as he sounds, then we want to get best 5 on the floor.

THe only time I've ever seen Allen play was in the red/blue game, he was very athletic but in that game not at all impressive but maybe he was just really nervous who knows. I have seen the practice reports, I know Ashley said he's a future NBA player.