2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch.

[SirStefan32]

Size does factor into the consideration about who is the best player though.

Well, yeah. Among fifty other things.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

That worked out really great for Portland... twice. You take the best player available. It's the GM's job to know who that is. If McD thinks Ayton is the best player, then draft Ayton. If he thinks Doncic is the best player, then draft Doncic.

If you talking Bowie and Oden, tell Blazers had Wings and Bowie had the ranking Jordan is an outlier, it's more often the guy is a normal wing, not Jordan and Oden got hurt he wasn't a bust, you can't use injuries as to being a bad selection. Olawakandi and Bibby is better comparison, Kandi was more of a project when selected, Ayton isnt

 

[JCSunsfan]

And I would counter that by saying that the opposite is true. People are hating on Doncic because he is white. If he was the same player but looked like TJ Warren, most of his critics would be singing his praises.

Nah. I don't care if he is purple. I don't think most others do either.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Nah. I don't care if he is purple. I don't think most others do either.

I only care whether or not someone bleeds purple and orange!

 

[Chaplin]

Most current mocks have Ayton going 1st, and all of those have a pretty big battle going with the #2 pick being either Bagley or Doncic. Pick 4 is all over the place, but it looks like JJJ is the consensus right now.

http://walterfootball.com/nbadraftdata.php

 

[DevonCardsFan]

And I would counter that by saying that the opposite is true. People are hating on Doncic because he is white. If he was the same player but looked like TJ Warren, most of his critics would be singing his praises.

No Walt Williams and Shaun Livingston went 4 and 7, Walt Williams was a Point Forward, no one was saying take Walt Williams over Zo, Laetener and Gugliotta

 

[JCSunsfan]

Most current mocks have Ayton going 1st, and all of those have a pretty big battle going with the #2 pick being either Bagley or Doncic. Pick 4 is all over the place, but it looks like JJJ is the consensus right now.

http://walterfootball.com/nbadraftdata.php

Yeah. I would want Ayton at 1. Probably Bagley at 2, but not sure. JJJ is really interesting but a gamble IMO. Young would be fantastic, but maybe a #4 pick. Doncic would scare me to death, but if Kokoskov really wants him at 3 or 4 its probably OK.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Most current mocks have Ayton going 1st, and all of those have a pretty big battle going with the #2 pick being either Bagley or Doncic. Pick 4 is all over the place, but it looks like JJJ is the consensus right now.

http://walterfootball.com/nbadraftdata.php

And JJJ is @4, proving the value of size in the draft. Wings are way more obtainable, even the last place Suns have solid wings on there team lol

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Most current mocks have Ayton going 1st, and all of those have a pretty big battle going with the #2 pick being either Bagley or Doncic. Pick 4 is all over the place, but it looks like JJJ is the consensus right now.

http://walterfootball.com/nbadraftdata.php

Good find!

I did note that of the 23 mock drafts updated since April, Doncic goes 1 or 2 in 80% of them and Ayton goes #1 23/25 times.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Most current mocks have Ayton going 1st, and all of those have a pretty big battle going with the #2 pick being either Bagley or Doncic. Pick 4 is all over the place, but it looks like JJJ is the consensus right now.

http://walterfootball.com/nbadraftdata.php

BTW. Thanks so much for the link. That is really helpful.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And I would counter that by saying that the opposite is true. People are hating on Doncic because he is white. If he was the same player but looked like TJ Warren, most of his critics would be singing his praises.

And I would counter that you only have to look back to last year's draft to disprove the "white hate" theory? A lot of people (inculding me) were questioning Tatum and wanted Jackson for the SAME reasons last year (lack of elite athleticism and concerns about D because of that) and I'm pretty sure Tatum looks a lot more like TJ Warren than Doncic.

 

[Raindog]

Not racisn, the over hype of white NBA pkayers is what it is. The same way McCaffrey was hyped as a white RB for the Panthers. The Adam Morrison's, Jimmers, Bobby Hurley's, Bender, Milacic, The Great White Hope, there always is a little of over hyping of White athletes.

I do see this as a legitimate piece of the hype, if not the entire reason for it. I also think that the notion of finding some sports prodigy out in the hinterlands of Eastern Europe or wherever makes for a great story for sports columnists, and that is another reason he is getting a lot of media hype - stories about kids from Cuba who can throw 120 mph fastballs, or that latest Japanese baseball phenom are in a similar vein. It makes for good copy.

I personally don't care whether he is white or black. The thing I am most skeptical about is the claim that his success in the Euro League some how makes him a better prospect than any of the college players. I think that is, in a word, poppycock. The European League may indeed be the second best professional league in the world, but by no means does that mean it is loaded with talent that is anywhere comparable to the NBA. This is propaganda that has been proliferated in recent years on the internet by European fans and pundits. Yes, the quality of homegrown talent has improved over there compared to what it was in the 1980s or 1990s. And no, it is not still anywhere close to the NBA.

So Luka Doncic's alleged "wunderkind" status doesn't mean much to me when I consider that someone like Sonny Weems also tore up the Euro League, and then came over here and couldn't even last one season as a twelfth man for a bad Suns team. Trying to make some kind of one-to-one comparison between success in both leagues (as many of Doncic's exponents are doing) needs to be taken with an enormous grain of salt.

I guess it would be one thing if he was putting up unprecedented monster numbers over there, like 40/15 pg or something like that. Then maybe you consider that he is another once in a lifetime type talent who is just beyond all the competition wherever he is playing at the moment. Or if you watch game footage of him and he is just steamrolling everyone, NBA Jam style. But nothing of the sort is the case. So as far as I am concerned, he is just another shot-in-the-dark kid from Europe, as equally likely to flop as succeed. And again, watching him in video highlights on YouTube makes me think his lack of extraordinary physical talent is going to cancel out any intangibles once he gets over here. Hence, there is no way I would take him over at the very least Ayton and Bagley, and probably a couple more guys if I really thought about it.

If the Suns do end up taking him, I will of course hope for the best outcome. But if they take him one or even two, I think they will end up regretting it in the long run.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

I do see this as a legitimate piece of the hype, if not the entire reason for it. I also think that the notion of finding some sports prodigy out in the hinterlands of Eastern Europe or wherever makes for a great story for sports columnists, and that is another reason he is getting a lot of media hype - stories about kids from Cuba who can throw 120 mph fastballs, or that latest Japanese baseball phenom are in a similar vein. It makes for good copy.

I personally don't care whether he is white or black. The thing I am most skeptical about is the claim that his success in the Euro League some how makes him a better prospect than any of the college players. I think that is, in a word, poppycock. The European League may indeed be the second best professional league in the world, but by no means does that mean it is loaded with talent that is anywhere comparable to the NBA. This is propaganda that has been proliferated in recent years on the internet by European fans and pundits. Yes, the quality of homegrown talent has improved over there compared to what it was in the 1980s or 1990s. And no, it is not still anywhere close to the NBA.

So Luka Doncic's alleged "wunderkind" status doesn't mean much to me when I consider that someone like Sonny Weems also tore up the Euro League, and then came over here and couldn't even last one season as a twelfth man for a bad Suns team. Trying to make some kind of one-to-one comparison between success in both leagues (as many of Doncic's exponents are doing) needs to be taken with an enormous grain of salt.

I guess it woukl be one thing if he was putting up unprecedented monster numbers over there, like 40/15 pg or something like that. Then maybe you consider that he is another once in a lifetime type talent who is just beyond all the competition wherever he is playing at the moment. Or if you watch game footage of him and he is just steamrolling everyone, NBA Jam style. But nothing of the sort is the case. So as far as I am concerned, he is just another shot-in-the-dark kid from Europe, as equally likely to flop as succeed. And again, watching him in video highlights on YouTube makes me think his lack of extraordinary physical talent is going to cancel out any intangibles once he gets over here. Hence, there is no way I would take him over at the very least Ayton and Bagley, and probably a couple more guys if I really thought about it.

If the Suns do end up taking him, I will of course hope for the best outcome. But if they take him one or even two, I think they will end up regretting it in the long run.

Great post, it is more the Euro hidden gem, they are posting. Tons of valid points if you look past the cool passing and watch how bad he is athletically, he will be limited. This video shows some very bad flaws, that can't be coached up, athletecism can't be coached, if you look past the highlight reel this is cause for concern

2:00 mark they show his lack of exploseviness and how it hurts his game

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[pokerface]

I do see this as a legitimate piece of the hype, if not the entire reason for it. I also think that the notion of finding some sports prodigy out in the hinterlands of Eastern Europe or wherever makes for a great story for sports columnists, and that is another reason he is getting a lot of media hype - stories about kids from Cuba who can throw 120 mph fastballs, or that latest Japanese baseball phenom are in a similar vein. It makes for good copy.

I personally don't care whether he is white or black. The thing I am most skeptical about is the claim that his success in the Euro League some how makes him a better prospect than any of the college players. I think that is, in a word, poppycock. The European League may indeed be the second best professional league in the world, but by no means does that mean it is loaded with talent that is anywhere comparable to the NBA. This is propaganda that has been proliferated in recent years on the internet by European fans and pundits. Yes, the quality of homegrown talent has improved over there compared to what it was in the 1980s or 1990s. And no, it is not still anywhere close to the NBA.

So Luka Doncic's alleged "wunderkind" status doesn't mean much to me when I consider that someone like Sonny Weems also tore up the Euro League, and then came over here and couldn't even last one season as a twelfth man for a bad Suns team. Trying to make some kind of one-to-one comparison between success in both leagues (as many of Doncic's exponents are doing) needs to be taken with an enormous grain of salt.

I guess it would be one thing if he was putting up unprecedented monster numbers over there, like 40/15 pg or something like that. Then maybe you consider that he is another once in a lifetime type talent who is just beyond all the competition wherever he is playing at the moment. Or if you watch game footage of him and he is just steamrolling everyone, NBA Jam style. But nothing of the sort is the case. So as far as I am concerned, he is just another shot-in-the-dark kid from Europe, as equally likely to flop as succeed. And again, watching him in video highlights on YouTube makes me think his lack of extraordinary physical talent is going to cancel out any intangibles once he gets over here. Hence, there is no way I would take him over at the very least Ayton and Bagley, and probably a couple more guys if I really thought about it.

If the Suns do end up taking him, I will of course hope for the best outcome. But if they take him one or even two, I think they will end up regretting it in the long run.

Players tear it up in the NCAA too and bust. So what are we supposed guage things on?

 

[pokerface]

Great post, it is more the Euro hidden gem, they are posting. Tons of valid points if you look past the cool passing and watch how bad he is athletically, he will be limited. This video shows some very bad flaws, that can't be coached up, athletecism can't be coached, if you look past the highlight reel this is cause for concern

2:00 mark they show his lack of exploseviness and how it hurts his game

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Athleticism is one factor of many factors. Chriss is athletic and he by no means is dominating anything because his basketball IQ is almost zero.

 

[Raindog]

Athleticism is one factor of many factors. Chriss is athletic and he by no means is dominating anything because his basketball IQ is almost zero.

He also took up the sport relatively late compared to many, which undoubtedly has hindered his mental grasp of it.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Athleticism is one factor of many factors. Chriss is athletic and he by no means is dominating anything because his basketball IQ is almost zero.

Yes but to be successful and translate into the NBA and be worth a selection og that Caliber, it's a pretty bad attribute to not have. some are drafted on pure athleticism and no game like Chriss, not being athletic is a major red flag, Height, not being able to shoot etc. You don't just overlook it

 

[pokerface]

Yes but to be successful and translate into the NBA and be worth a selection og that Caliber, it's a pretty bad attribute to not have. some are drafted on pure athleticism and no game like Chriss, not being athletic is a major red flag, Height, not being able to shoot etc. You don't just overlook it

I think Doncic had an unusually high Bball IQ for his age and will adapt. Plus he has a broad spectrum to his game...he contributes in a variety of ways. Not saying to overlook anything either but each player in the draft has holes somewhere.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

I think Doncic had an unusually high Bball IQ for his age and will adapt. Plus he has a broad spectrum to his game...he contributes in a variety of ways. Not saying to overlook anything either but each player in the draft has holes somewhere.

Here is a video on his craftiness and lack of athleticism and how it help and hurts his game. You see both great Craftiness and horrid athletic ability so, it's really anyone's guess on can he overcome it or not, But I don't want to gamble at all with this high of a draft pick

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[Phrazbit]

I think you guys are sweating Doncic vs Ayton too much. IMO, Ayton is going first, regardless, and I like Doncic. For those of you that are more skeptical of Doncic, you ought to be comparing him with Bagley/Young/JJJ...

 

[pokerface]

He also took up the sport relatively late compared to many, which undoubtedly has hindered his mental grasp of it.

That very thing has been said of Len and five years later he's shown very little progress mentally.

 

[pokerface]

I think you guys are sweating Doncic vs Ayton too much. IMO, Ayton is going first, regardless, and I like Doncic. For those of you that are more skeptical of Doncic, you ought to be comparing him with Bagley/Young/JJJ...

Yeah that is a more realistic debate.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think you guys are sweating Doncic vs Ayton too much. IMO, Ayton is going first, regardless, and I like Doncic. For those of you that are more skeptical of Doncic, you ought to be comparing him with Bagley/Young/JJJ...

I put Young on a level above all except perhaps Ayton. But then again, I'm not an NBA scout, I just play one on the internet.

 

[SirStefan32]

I will be OK with Ayton, Doncic, Bagley, JJJ, Young, or Porter. None of them are perfect, but all of them have skills that should translate to the NBA.

 

[pokerface]

Here is a video on his craftiness and lack of athleticism and how it help and hurts his game. You see both great Craftiness and horrid athletic ability so, it's really anyone's guess on can he overcome it or not, But I don't want to gamble at all with this high of a draft pick

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Well that's valid. We just don't know if we are drafting #1 or #4...that is a huge spread.