2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch.

[Phrazbit]

That’s still super tough, because I don’t think there’s a universe where Young ends up as good as Curry.

But Ayton could be Robinson. And a Robinson, Reggie Miller (Booker), Rodman with offense and no headaches (Jackson) would be such a fantastic big three.

Yeah, I think Young might have better court vision than Curry but Curry's ability to break down defenders off the dribble is on a level that I don't think Young can reach, and that makes everything Curry does easier.

And as incredible as Mutombo was, a big man that offensively limited is not as valuable in the modern NBA... and even back Mutombo's offensive weaknesses were often noted as limiting his impact.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So... right now,do we think JJJ’s floor is a Clint Capella who can stretch the floor? Or his ceiling? And what’s in the middle?

 

[pokerface]

That’s still super tough, because I don’t think there’s a universe where Young ends up as good as Curry.

But Ayton could be Robinson. And a Robinson, Reggie Miller (Booker), Rodman with offense and no headaches (Jackson) would be such a fantastic big three.

I don't know why that is so far fetched. Yeah Curry is a very high bar but Young is doing things that Curry didnt at the same age.

Even if Young / Bamba were at 80% level of Curry / Mutombo I'd still take over 100% David Robinson.

 

[pokerface]

Yeah, I think Young might have better court vision than Curry but Curry's ability to break down defenders off the dribble is on a level that I don't think Young can reach, and that makes everything Curry does easier.

And as incredible as Mutombo was, a big man that offensively limited is not as valuable in the modern NBA... and even back Mutombo's offensive weaknesses were often noted as limiting his impact.

Right but we have Booker's offensive fire power to throw in with a potential Young teammate .

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't know why that is so far fetched. Yeah Curry is a very high bar but Young is doing things that Curry didnt at the same age.

Even if Young / Bamba were at 80% level of Curry / Mutombo I'd still take over 100% David Robinson.

How old are you poker? Not asking as a diss, but more to know if you saw Robinson in his true prime, pre back injuries/playing second fiddle to Duncan.

He was a FREAKING beast. The problem with him was actually the same thing I worry about Ayton. He was an amazing talent and was great in every area, but he didn’t have that junkyard dog in him to really lead his team past the Conference Finals... and more importantly he didn’t have anyone with him that did.

Now you might ask why I want him so much if that’s the case? And it’s because I think he can be a Robinson who’s actually paired with a couple of KILLERS with Book and Jackson and so he can be great in game and those guys can close.

 

[pokerface]

How old are you poker? Not asking as a diss, but more to know if you saw Robinson in his true prime, pre back injuries/playing second fiddle to Duncan.

He was a FREAKING beast. The problem with him was actually the same thing I worry about Ayton. He was an amazing talent and was great in every area, but he didn’t have that junkyard dog in him to really lead his team past the Conference Finals... and more importantly he didn’t have anyone with him that did.

Now you might ask why I want him so much if that’s the case? And it’s because I think he can be a Robinson who’s actually paired with a couple of KILLERS with Book and Jackson and so he can be great in game and those guys can close.

Hey I definitely have no problem with Robinson (or Ayton) . Robinson was a total stud. Maybe I'm out there with the comparisons (and a little off) but I think I'd be more excited over Bamba/Young combo versus Ayton. Mainly because Bamba could be the better defender than Ayton.

Our chances of getting Ayton are far greater than getting Young and Bamba so this is getting silly anyways.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Hey I definitely have no problem with Robinson (or Ayton) . Robinson was a total stud. Maybe I'm out there with the comparisons (and a little off) but I think I'd be more excited over Bamba/Young combo versus Ayton. Mainly because Bamba could be the better defender than Ayton.

Our chances of getting Ayton are far greater than getting Young and Bamba so this is getting silly anyways.

Agreed.

Man, this place can be so civil when not talking Doncic!

 

[JCSunsfan]

How old are you poker? Not asking as a diss, but more to know if you saw Robinson in his true prime, pre back injuries/playing second fiddle to Duncan.

He was a FREAKING beast. The problem with him was actually the same thing I worry about Ayton. He was an amazing talent and was great in every area, but he didn’t have that junkyard dog in him to really lead his team past the Conference Finals... and more importantly he didn’t have anyone with him that did.

Now you might ask why I want him so much if that’s the case? And it’s because I think he can be a Robinson who’s actually paired with a couple of KILLERS with Book and Jackson and so he can be great in game and those guys can close.

I totally agree with this. Booker is an offensive, take-no-prisoners killer, and I think Jackson will be the same thing on defense. I think it's possible Ayton may end up a better defender in the pros with some coaching and a better role. UofA played a lot of twin towers type of ball that put Ayton out on the perimeter defending. That's why his block numbers are lower than people would like.

 

[SirStefan32]

That’s still super tough, because I don’t think there’s a universe where Young ends up as good as Curry.

But Ayton could be Robinson. And a Robinson, Reggie Miller (Booker), Rodman with offense and no headaches (Jackson) would be such a fantastic big three.

But he is NOT David Robinson. No matter how many times you say it, he will never be a David Robinson. Robinson was an outstanding defensive player. Ayton is not. Hell, Doncic is more likely to be a Magic Johnson than Ayton is to be a David Robinson (not at all likely). He might be half of David Robinson, but he is never going to be a two-way player. And as a side note, in my book, that's OK. I'd still take him as the number one pick, but he is not a two-way player.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If the Suns get the 4th pick I will root for Doncic or Bagley to drop. I'd probably go Bamba-Young-Jackson in that order, but if the Suns liked Jackson the most I wouldn't be upset. I think they are all three fantastic prospects with risk.

I think Bagley would probably be there with the 4th pick. It would be tough between Young and Bamba. Making that selection is really above my pay grade. It is tough.

 

[SirStefan32]

So... right now,do we think JJJ’s floor is a Clint Capella who can stretch the floor? Or his ceiling? And what’s in the middle?

He is very intriguing. I view him as a longer, more athletic Bender. That gets risky. If both of them figure it out, they will be a scary combo at 4 and 5, but if they don't...you are stuck with two three and D bigs.

 

[JCSunsfan]

But he is NOT David Robinson. No matter how many times you say it, he will never be a David Robinson. Robinson was an outstanding defensive player. Ayton is not. Hell, Doncic is more likely to be a Magic Johnson than Ayton is to be a David Robinson (not at all likely). He might be half of David Robinson, but he is never going to be a two-way player. And as a side note, in my book, that's OK. I'd still take him as the number one pick, but he is not a two-way player.

He might never be a two way player. But I think it is hugely presumptive to say he never will be. He has the physical tools. If he has a coach that teaches and demands it, there is no reason he could not be. Its not like players who just do not have the speed or athleticism to play D.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think Bagley would probably be there with the 4th pick. It would be tough between Young and Bamba. Making that selection is really above my pay grade. It is tough.

Young vs. Bamba, in my book, is not tough. Young has two NBA skills already. Say what you will about him, but he can shoot and pass with the best of them. I don't see a single NBA skill in Mamba just yet.

 

[SirStefan32]

He might never be a two way player. But I think it is hugely presumptive to say he never will be. He has the physical tools. If he has a coach that teaches and demands it, there is no reason he could not be. Its not like players who just do not have the speed or athleticism to play D.

Well sure, Doncic could become a better shooter than Steve Nash too. There is no reason he couldn't, but I think you'd agree that it's extremely unlikely. I am trying to think of a big who was bad defensively and then turned into at least a decent defender. I cannot think of one.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Young vs. Bamba, in my book, is not tough. Young has two NBA skills already. Say what you will about him, but he can shoot and pass with the best of them. I don't see a single NBA skill in Mamba just yet.

Rim protection, rebounding. But I would not argue about YOung.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That would be an amazing pairing. Love both of those prospects, but worry about the deficiencies of each. Together though...Bamba could potentially counteract what you lose on defense by playing Young, and Young would be the perfect offensive complement to Bamba, allowing him to operate as a rim-runner on offense and develop an offensive repertoire more gradually.

I think you just stated the very reason many of us would love that pairing.

 

[SirStefan32]

Rim protection, rebounding. But I would not argue about YOung.

So, I will admit to only having watched Bamba a handful of times. Probably four or five game. I admit my sample size is small, but from what I saw, he wasn't really as impressive as some people say. I don't think it's guaranteed that he will be a rim protector or a great rebounder in the NBA.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think it would be wise for us all to rein in our mounting expectations. To read this board one would think this draft is about to produce:

David Robinson
Steph Curry
Magic
Mutumbo
Durant
Karl Malone

Chances are it will produce much less than that.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think it would be wise for us all to rein in our mounting expectations. To read this board one would think this draft is about to produce:

David Robinson
Steph Curry
Magic
Mutumbo
Durant
Karl Malone

Chances are it will produce much less than that.

Those guys can only WISH they will be as good as this draft is going to be.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I think it would be wise for us all to rein in our mounting expectations. To read this board one would think this draft is about to produce:

David Robinson
Steph Curry
Magic
Mutumbo
Durant
Karl Malone

Chances are it will produce much less than that.

Wait...No Jordan? Why even bother drafting someone?

 

[Cheesebeef]

But he is NOT David Robinson. No matter how many times you say it, he will never be a David Robinson. Robinson was an outstanding defensive player. Ayton is not. Hell, Doncic is more likely to be a Magic Johnson than Ayton is to be a David Robinson (not at all likely). He might be half of David Robinson, but he is never going to be a two-way player. And as a side note, in my book, that's OK. I'd still take him as the number one pick, but he is not a two-way player.

Good freaking God... I’ve said OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN that his CEILING IS ROBINSON. That’s BEST CASE SCENARIO.

Do you REALLY think in the best case scenario that Doncic could be not only the next Magic but ALSO have a better chance to be that then Ayton’s Robinson? Doncic doesn’t have Magic size or speed to do that. At the very worst, Ayton has those things in common with Robinson.

But you’re on record above saying he can NEVER be a David Robinson? That’s just beyond silly. He’s got all the tools to be that good but It will be dependent on a great coach and himself to get him to that level. To say he’ll never be that player is literally baseless exaggerated claims:

And FFS... Stop trying to turn EVERY DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS INTO ABSOLUTES by projecting arguments on me because it fits the narrative you want to argue against. I’ve NEVER said he’s David Robinson. I’ve consistently said he’s got the tools to be and is best case scenario. There is actually a difference. It’s a best case scenario projection. Not what is right now.

So please, for the sake of argument and civility on the board stop twisting and outright lying about what I post.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think it would be wise for us all to rein in our mounting expectations. To read this board one would think this draft is about to produce:

David Robinson
Steph Curry
Magic
Mutumbo
Durant
Karl Malone

Chances are it will produce much less than that.

How about just listing what we believe is the floor of each of these players? Only active player comparisons. Not all the skill sets are going to overlap so I just compared position with position.

Ayton: KAT, but stronger
Bagley: Aaron Gordon
Doncic: Gordon Hayward (I am being generous on the floor here)
Bamba: Gobert
Michael Porter: Brandon Ingram (?) if healthy
Young: Jeff Teague

 

[Chaplin]

I may be totally off, but would Bagley's ceiling be someone like DeMarcus Cousins?

 

[JCSunsfan]

I may be totally off, but would Bagley's ceiling be someone like DeMarcus Cousins?

How about his floor though.

Went back and added. I am thinking Aaron Gordon as a floor for Bagley. Gordon is a much better defender. But Bagley is a double double machine and that isn't going away.

 

[Chaplin]

How about his floor though.

Ah, sorry. I saw Ayton's "floor" as being KAT, which I completely disagree with. What is your definition of "floor"? I always thought it meant the player could be at least as good as... his floor. But he potentially can hit his ceiling. So Ayton's floor might be more of a poor man's DeAndre Jordan while his ceiling could be Robinson.

I think we'd all be happy if we got Ayton and he ended up at least as good as KAT.