2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch.

[SirStefan32]

You literally said it is not reality to make the comparison, now you are saying he can be robinson??

There's this thing called youtube, so yes ive seen lots of doncic.

If You are passing on a franchise big they better be able to get by NBA level defenders without a pick, with ease.

Mpj is 6'11, he can shoot over small forwards and get by pfs in the nba.

Good Lord, I can't believe I have to explain this.
OK, so you said that Ayton IS David Robinson. That is NOT reality, as he is not a David Robinson. He has the potential to be a similar player, but he is not right now, and there is no guarantee that he will become a David Robinson.

 

[hsandhu]

Good Lord, I can't believe I have to explain this.
OK, so you said that Ayton IS David Robinson. That is NOT reality, as he is not a David Robinson. He has the potential to be a similar player, but he is not right now, and there is no guarantee that he will become a David Robinson.

I'm saying he can be too, not guaranteeing he will be

 

[Raindog]

European Championship and Euroleague (especially the top teams) are far superior to NCAA basketball.

So "always lesser" is completely wrong.

Okay, you are correct... top level Euroleague are professional teams, with full grown men, many ex-NBA players and have been together as teams for a longer time.

Let me re-state, I should not have used the term "competition" but rather "talent." The level of pure basketball talent at the NCAA level is superior to everywhere else in the world outside of the NBA itself.

 

[SirStefan32]

The level of pure basketball talent at the NCAA level is superior to everywhere else in the world outside of the NBA itself.

Absolutely not. Real Madrid would beat every NCAA team with ease.

 

[elindholm]

Absolutely not. Real Madrid would beat every NCAA team with ease.

It's all speculation, but it seems unlikely to me. Top NCAA teams have multiple players go in the first round of the NBA draft. How many Euro teams would place multiple players into the first round?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

It's all speculation, but it seems unlikely to me. Top NCAA teams have multiple players go in the first round of the NBA draft. How many Euro teams would place multiple players into the first round?

Sure they have multiple players go into the first round, but these players are far from fully developed and tend to struggle against the grown men in the NBA in their rookie season. These teams are also comprised of plenty of players who no longer play basketball after college as well. Thus you are looking at a team full of professionals vs a few very talented young players and a bunch of mediocre young players.

 

[SirStefan32]

Teams that make it to Euro League are the best teams in Europe. I would be shocked if the best college team could beat your Real Madrids, CSKAs, Panathinaikos, Olympiakos, Maccabis, or even Olimpias and Fenerbaches. Those guys are professionals, and grown men.

 

[Raindog]

Absolutely not. Real Madrid would beat every NCAA team with ease.

Possibly, though not sure of the "with ease" part... but that's beside the point, which you are clearly missing. The fact that any individual top tier team in Europe may be able to beat any top level NCAA team has nothing to do with the overall pool of pure potential NBA talent across the NCAA vs. the European leagues.

The fact is NBA rosters are going to be filled out with NCAA players by an enormously wide margin over players from Europe (or anywhere else) because that is where the greatest pool of talent is. So the likelihood that the best prospects are going to come from one source or the other heavily favors the NCAA.

That is not to say that potentially some specific year the best pure individual prospect could not come from somewhere outside the US collegiate system. But that is likely to be a pretty rare instance. And the fact that Doncic may or may not be the best prospect ever to come out of the Euro league has only mild bearing in evaluating if he is better than anyone else in this draft class or whether he is a guaranteed success in the NBA.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Possibly, though not sure of the "with ease" part... but that's beside the point, which you are clearly missing. The fact that any individual top tier team in Europe may be able to beat any top level NCAA team has nothing to do with the overall pool of pure potential NBA talent across the NCAA vs. the European leagues.

The fact is NBA rosters are going to be filled out with NCAA players by an enormously wide margin over players from Europe (or anywhere else) because that is where the greatest pool of talent is. So the likelihood that the best prospects are going to come from one source or the other heavily favors the NCAA.

That is not to say that potentially some specific year the best pure individual prospect could not come from somewhere outside the US collegiate system. But that is likely to be a pretty rare instance. And the fact that Doncic may or may not be the best prospect ever to come out of the Euro league has only mild bearing in evaluating if he is better than anyone else in this draft class or whether he is a guaranteed success in the NBA.

This is flawed logic. Most of the players on those college teams won't even be good enough to play professionally after college and all of the players in Euroleague were good enough to not only play professionally, but in the 2nd toughest league on the planet. Sure something like the top 5% or so (probably less than that) of college players fill up the NBA for the most part, but it is also full of young guys that aren't all that good and this allows for some gaudy numbers for some of these top college prospects.

Which brings me to someone like Doncic. At 18 years old he is already one of the best players (not prospects) in the entire league and while he may not get the chance to face guys as talented as Ayton, Young, Sexton and so on. He also doesn't get the chance to beat up on those guys that will be accountants in a couple years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You literally said it is not reality to make the comparison, now you are saying he can be robinson??

There's this thing called youtube, so yes ive seen lots of doncic.

If You are passing on a franchise big they better be able to get by NBA level defenders without a pick, with ease.

Mpj is 6'11, he can shoot over small forwards and get by pfs in the nba.

Can get by Pfs in the nba? We don’t even know he can get by collegiate players due to his not playing a minute of college ball. That’s kind of a silly comment.

 

[Raindog]

This is flawed logic. Most of the players on those college teams won't even be good enough to play professionally after college and all of the players in Euroleague were good enough to not only play professionally, but in the 2nd toughest league on the planet.

Of course most college players won't play pro ball after college. There are thousands of college players and only about 400 or so roster spots available in the NBA and its developmental league. And as it so happens, many of those players that don't make it to the NBA end up playing (and starring) in the Euro and other top overseas leagues.

The NBA has been pipelining the top players from Europe and other foreign leagues for about 20 to 25 years now. In all that time and of all those players, only a very small number have had NBA careers of special note. And only one (Dirk) could ever really he considered a top ten player during the time he played. The vast majority have been washouts or fringe players, and only a small percentage have had solid NBA careers.

The fact is the vast majority of top level basketball talent comes and will continue to come from the American college ranks... and that's not even close to something that can be legitimately disputed. Heck, the Suns even signed one of the best vet players from the European league a few years ago, and in his one year here, barely looked he even belonged on the court with one of the worst teams in the NBA.

As for Doncic, I don't see how anyone can evaluate him as being so spectacular that he is the indisputable best prospect in this draft, simply because he has looked good playing in the Euro league. I am not saying he absolutely develop into a solid or very good NBA player, only that it's far from a sure thing. As has been pointed out, he is not an elite athlete, and at 18 years old, he is also sure to have a big learning curve playing in a league full of far more elite athletes than the one he has been succeeding in. I certainly don't see him as being more NBA ready than any of the better college prospects in this draft, and due to his athletic shortcomings, his ceiling is probably lower than many of them.

As the Suns rarely get a good pick in a draft that's as stacked at the top as this one, I am not sure at all that Doncic is a good risk at say the first or second pick, if we are lucky enough to get one of those. As I said, maybe he is not so much of a risk if we end up picking lower than that where other more high ceiling players are off the board. But the insistence that he is somehow a once in a lifetime prospect we can't afford to pass up is plain silly to me.

 

[Praxis]

I live in Europe and i am big euro basketball follower.I also love suns and read comments here for years.I just signed up to say that drafting doncic #1 will be a big mistake.Bogdan bogdanovic is a better player and suns traded him.I dont see Doncic getting better than him.you can watch last years Euroleague final four and see it with your eyes.

If McDonough drafts Doncic #1 overall I will lose it. Doncic shouldn't even go in the top 10.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

If McDonough drafts Doncic #1 overall I will lose it. Doncic shouldn't even go in the top 10.

Completely lost me there. I can understand wanting some of these other prospects more than Doncic, but there is without a doubt not 10 prospects that are better than him in this draft. The only player I feel comfortable saying I would take over Doncic is Ayton and an argument could maybe be made for JJJ. Anyone else is pretty ridiculous to even consider.

 

[SirStefan32]

Yeah, that's just silly.

 

[Praxis]

You guys don't understand how loaded this draft is. At least 12 players better than Doncic right now with equal upside.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Of course most college players won't play pro ball after college. There are thousands of college players and only about 400 or so roster spots available in the NBA and its developmental league. And as it so happens, many of those players that don't make it to the NBA end up playing (and starring) in the Euro and other top overseas leagues.

The NBA has been pipelining the top players from Europe and other foreign leagues for about 20 to 25 years now. In all that time and of all those players, only a very small number have had NBA careers of special note. And only one (Dirk) could ever really he considered a top ten player during the time he played. The vast majority have been washouts or fringe players, and only a small percentage have had solid NBA careers.

The fact is the vast majority of top level basketball talent comes and will continue to come from the American college ranks... and that's not even close to something that can be legitimately disputed. Heck, the Suns even signed one of the best vet players from the European league a few years ago, and in his one year here, barely looked he even belonged on the court with one of the worst teams in the NBA.

As for Doncic, I don't see how anyone can evaluate him as being so spectacular that he is the indisputable best prospect in this draft, simply because he has looked good playing in the Euro league. I am not saying he absolutely develop into a solid or very good NBA player, only that it's far from a sure thing. As has been pointed out, he is not an elite athlete, and at 18 years old, he is also sure to have a big learning curve playing in a league full of far more elite athletes than the one he has been succeeding in. I certainly don't see him as being more NBA ready than any of the better college prospects in this draft, and due to his athletic shortcomings, his ceiling is probably lower than many of them.

As the Suns rarely get a good pick in a draft that's as stacked at the top as this one, I am not sure at all that Doncic is a good risk at say the first or second pick, if we are lucky enough to get one of those. As I said, maybe he is not so much of a risk if we end up picking lower than that where other more high ceiling players are off the board. But the insistence that he is somehow a once in a lifetime prospect we can't afford to pass up is plain silly to me.

I haven't seen many people at all saying he should go #1 overall. Most people on here are in agreeance that should go to Ayton. The reason why people are so high on him is because he is already SO skilled and developed at such a young age and it is pretty rare that a basketball player won't be able to get significantly better from 18 to 25 regardless of how athletic they are. Also athleticism is not the end all be all of how good a player can get. Some of the best players ever weren't tremendously athletic. Skill is far more important than athleticism in the grand scheme of things and his skills are certainly more developed than the other top prospects.

Also you seem to be stuck with the idea that NCAA is filled with elite athletes and future pro basketball players and it really isn't. Of the thousands of players in college a very small percentage fall into the category of elite athletes. You said that there only about 400 spots available between the NBA and the G-League and that narrows down to maybe 80-100 or so spots being filled each year between the two leagues. That simply means that the actual top end talent is very few and far between at the NCAA level. That doesn't factor in that a lot of the top end talent that doesn't make it into the NBA opts to go places like the Euroleague because they are likely to make more money playing there than in the G-League.

I also don't really follow the idea that Doncic's ceiling is limited due to a lack of athleticism. I think it is vastly overstated because people don't realize that this isn't some 6'2" 180 lb point guard were talking about. This is a guy who is similar in size to someone like Ben Simmons (Simmons has a couple inches on him, but is similar in weight and Doncic may still be growing). I'm not suggesting that he is as athletic as Simmons, but minus leaping ability I don't think are that far apart. Doncic is however is a better shooter and his other skills are on par with Simmons.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is a guy who is similar in size to someone like Ben Simmons (Simmons has a couple inches on him, but is similar in weight and Doncic may still be growing). I'm not suggesting that he is as athletic as Simmons, but minus leaping ability I don't think are that far apart. Doncic is however is a better shooter and his other skills are on par with Simmons.

There's really no point in even bringing up Simmons' name because it's the height/athleticism/speed that MAKES Simmons so special. And two of those three things are never going to change for Doncic.

 

[Praxis]

I haven't seen many people at all saying he should go #1 overall. Most people on here are in agreeance that should go to Ayton. The reason why people are so high on him is because he is already SO skilled and developed at such a young age and it is pretty rare that a basketball player won't be able to get significantly better from 18 to 25 regardless of how athletic they are. Also athleticism is not the end all be all of how good a player can get. Some of the best players ever weren't tremendously athletic. Skill is far more important than athleticism in the grand scheme of things and his skills are certainly more developed than the other top prospects.

Also you seem to be stuck with the idea that NCAA is filled with elite athletes and future pro basketball players and it really isn't. Of the thousands of players in college a very small percentage fall into the category of elite athletes. You said that there only about 400 spots available between the NBA and the G-League and that narrows down to maybe 80-100 or so spots being filled each year between the two leagues. That simply means that the actual top end talent is very few and far between at the NCAA level. That doesn't factor in that a lot of the top end talent that doesn't make it into the NBA opts to go places like the Euroleague because they are likely to make more money playing there than in the G-League.

I also don't really follow the idea that Doncic's ceiling is limited due to a lack of athleticism. I think it is vastly overstated because people don't realize that this isn't some 6'2" 180 lb point guard were talking about. This is a guy who is similar in size to someone like Ben Simmons (Simmons has a couple inches on him, but is similar in weight and Doncic may still be growing). I'm not suggesting that he is as athletic as Simmons, but minus leaping ability I don't think are that far apart. Doncic is however is a better shooter and his other skills are on par with Simmons.

Doncic's skill set resembles more Ginobili than Simmons. And Ginobili has been the best unathletic Euro G/F. Not much hope of Doncic becoming a superstar.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Doncic's skill set resembles more Ginobili than Simmons. And Ginobili has been the best unathletic Euro G/F. Not much hope of Doncic becoming a superstar.

and to say Ginobli wasn't athletic is a laugh. He was quick AND could elevate. And a very good defender.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Honestly, if people were saying he was a 6'8 Ginobli, I'd be all over it. But he's not. He's a 6'8 Dragic and that just doesn't cut it when you're looking at the number 1 pick in a loaded draft. You shoot for HOF, not very good.

 

[Praxis]

and to say Ginobli wasn't athletic is a laugh.

You must have low standards

 

[Cheesebeef]

You must have low standards

lol. okay. Lots of non-athletes could dunk... off the dribble... on Yao, Dampier, Chris Bosh, entire teams (the Suns being one of them... multiple times).

Dude could take anyone off the dribble, get to the rack at will, and finish. At 6'5.

 

[GatorAZ]

Manu could change directions and accelerate as well as anyone especially in the half court. The Suns could never cut him off and it drove me nuts.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

There's really no point in even bringing up Simmons' name because it's the height/athleticism/speed that MAKES Simmons so special. And two of those three things are never going to change for Doncic.

Those things are not separate. Though I agree that Doncic isn't the athlete that Simmons is, but I don't think he is far off minus leaping ability. Either way neither one would be guarding PGs and if Doncic gets any bigger he could possibly play at the 4 in the NBA. He is already similar in size to many small ball 4s right now at 6'8" and 230 lbs.

That being said I would hope to get Ayton because he fits perfectly with team needs and is almost certainly the best prospect in this draft. Though if we are drafting with Ayton off the board I take Doncic and figure out how to fit it all together.

 

[3rdside]

18 years old and already being talked about as the best player in the world's second strongest league, 6'8", can shoot and distribute... oh yeah, he's overrated.

People seem to focus on his slow foot speed like that's the be all and end all while ignoring things like speed of thought, which is what makes slow foot speed players like Luka Modric and Andreas Iniesta of Real Madrid FC and FC Barcelona respectively so devastating to play against, or closer to home, Steve Nash and John Stockton.

Really, you just need to ask yourself a simple question; can this (big) kid play ball?

Damn right he can.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

18 years old and already being talked about as the best player in the world's second strongest league, 6'8", can shoot and distribute... oh yeah, he's overrated.

People seem to focus on his slow foot speed like that's the be all and end all while ignoring things like speed of thought, which is what makes slow foot speed players like Luka Modric and Andreas Iniesta of Real Madrid FC and FC Barcelona respectively so devastating to play against, or closer to home, Steve Nash and John Stockton.

Really, you just need to ask yourself a simple question; can this (big) kid play ball?

Damn right he can.

Watching film on him he looks plenty athletic for a 6'8" 230 lb guy. Sure he is no Josh Jackson when it comes to athleticism, but he is plenty athletic to be very effective in the NBA. Combine that with his skill, BBIQ and size and he is going to be a legitimately good player in year one IMO.