2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch.

[elindholm]

Here are my takeaways from that video of Doncic against the Thunder:

* He played very good defense in that one sequence against Westbrook.
* He made a few good floating passes over the top of the defense. It's doubtful that those would work regularly in the NBA, where everyone is faster and jumps more quickly, but they were effective against the Thunder.
* He can throw lobs and execute basic skip passes, like pretty much any other NBA guard.
* He has good instincts for pushing the ball.
* He can't finish in traffic and is easily intimidated.
* He is prone to lose his balance or get his footing scrambled up.
* He showed no leaping ability to speak of.
* His general level of quickness seems comparable to an average or slightly below average NBA wing.

I ask this as a serious question: Is he really the best player in Euroleague? On the basis of what?

 

[SirStefan32]

You know he was a 17 year-old kid playing against an NBA team, right?

 

[elindholm]

You know he was a 17 year-old kid playing against an NBA team, right?

Which of the weaknesses I mentioned is likely to get better with age?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How about Embiid or Towns? Cousins and Porzingis coming off injuries too. Suns could really put a lot of assets in front of these teams.

Embiid and towns and porzingis I’d do. But not much else I think.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Which of the weaknesses I mentioned is likely to get better with age?

Seriously? 17 year old against a pro team, cmon man.

 

[Hoop Head]

Which of the weaknesses I mentioned is likely to get better with age?

I'd say the part where you claimed he was easily intimidated. I think that has a lot to do with being a 17 year old kid playing against legit NBA talent. Not just NBA talent but pairing off with an MVP who is one of the most explosive and athletic players in the league in Westbrook.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Which of the weaknesses I mentioned is likely to get better with age?

Basically everything with the exception of leaping ability.

 

[Mert]

Here are my takeaways from that video of Doncic against the Thunder:

* He played very good defense in that one sequence against Westbrook.
* He made a few good floating passes over the top of the defense. It's doubtful that those would work regularly in the NBA, where everyone is faster and jumps more quickly, but they were effective against the Thunder.
* He can throw lobs and execute basic skip passes, like pretty much any other NBA guard.
* He has good instincts for pushing the ball.
* He can't finish in traffic and is easily intimidated.
* He is prone to lose his balance or get his footing scrambled up.
* He showed no leaping ability to speak of.
* His general level of quickness seems comparable to an average or slightly below average NBA wing.

I ask this as a serious question: Is he really the best player in Euroleague? On the basis of what?

He is top10 player.If Madrid can make it to final four and Doncic plays well i would say top5 with spanoulis shved de colo and vesely .In Last years semi final Doncic couldnt score single point thats my concern.That game was against one of the most dominant team of the euroleague history (Fenerbahçe)so its little normal.
Bogdan bogdanovic was the best player before he left europe.

 

[Hoop Head]

He is top10 player.If Madrid can make it to final four and Doncic plays well i would say top5 with spanoulis shved de colo and vesely .In Last years semi final Doncic couldnt score single point thats my concern.That game was against one of the most dominant team of the euroleague history (Fenerbahçe)so its little normal.
Bogdan bogdanovic was the best player before he left europe.

What is the record of the team that Bogdan led last year and what is it now without him? I'm curious how much of a difference he made if he was the best player in Europe.

Also what is the record of Doncic's team? I don't know how many games are in the Euroleague season and I'm curious how his team compares to others since he's the leader of his team. Is he helping them win or are they coming up short.


Booker is a great player for the Suns but he's not leading the team to wins right now. Not that he hasn't helped them win games in the past but you can tell something about how productive a player is by how far he's capable of leading their team. In Booker's game he's stuck on a team that hasn't had an NBA quality PG for the majority of the season, definitely not one that warranted being a starter in the NBA. You could say that Warren is the only teammate that Booker has that might be a starter on another NBA team. I highly doubt anyone else out there would be starting Ulis, Mike James, Bender, or Chriss for the majority of the season.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

What is the record of the team that Bogdan led last year and what is it now without him? I'm curious how much of a difference he made if he was the best player in Europe.

Also what is the record of Doncic's team? I don't know how many games are in the Euroleague season and I'm curious how his team compares to others since he's the leader of his team. Is he helping them win or are they coming up short.


Booker is a great player for the Suns but he's not leading the team to wins right now. Not that he hasn't helped them win games in the past but you can tell something about how productive a player is by how far he's capable of leading their team. In Booker's game he's stuck on a team that hasn't had an NBA quality PG for the majority of the season, definitely not one that warranted being a starter in the NBA. You could say that Warren is the only teammate that Booker has that might be a starter on another NBA team. I highly doubt anyone else out there would be starting Ulis, Mike James, Bender, or Chriss for the majority of the season.

Fenerbahce (Bogdan’s team) won 65% (23-12) of their games last season with Bogdan and 68% (15-7 thus far) this season.

As for Real Madrid (Doncic’s team) they have won 59% (13-9) of their games this year. And currently have the 5th best record in the league. They have been somewhat depleted though as they are without 3 of their top 5 contributors from last year. They were actually better than Fenerbahce last year (at least going by the standings).

 

[3rdside]

I haven't seen many people at all saying he should go #1 overall. Most people on here are in agreeance that should go to Ayton. The reason why people are so high on him is because he is already SO skilled and developed at such a young age and it is pretty rare that a basketball player won't be able to get significantly better from 18 to 25 regardless of how athletic they are. Also athleticism is not the end all be all of how good a player can get. Some of the best players ever weren't tremendously athletic. Skill is far more important than athleticism in the grand scheme of things and his skills are certainly more developed than the other top prospects.

Also you seem to be stuck with the idea that NCAA is filled with elite athletes and future pro basketball players and it really isn't. Of the thousands of players in college a very small percentage fall into the category of elite athletes. You said that there only about 400 spots available between the NBA and the G-League and that narrows down to maybe 80-100 or so spots being filled each year between the two leagues. That simply means that the actual top end talent is very few and far between at the NCAA level. That doesn't factor in that a lot of the top end talent that doesn't make it into the NBA opts to go places like the Euroleague because they are likely to make more money playing there than in the G-League.

I also don't really follow the idea that Doncic's ceiling is limited due to a lack of athleticism. I think it is vastly overstated because people don't realize that this isn't some 6'2" 180 lb point guard were talking about. This is a guy who is similar in size to someone like Ben Simmons (Simmons has a couple inches on him, but is similar in weight and Doncic may still be growing). I'm not suggesting that he is as athletic as Simmons, but minus leaping ability I don't think are that far apart. Doncic is however is a better shooter and his other skills are on par with Simmons.

Missed this but it sounds like we're on the same page although I'd definitely take Simmonds over Doncic; athleticism and height aren't the be all and end all but you'd obviously rather have them than not.

And I was still growing til I was 21 so yeah, it's not unlikely.

 

[hcsilla]

Here is the way I view it.

Maybe Doncic will turn out to be everything he is supposed to be, but I would be uncomfortable if the Suns drafted him with the first pick. Lack of lateral quickness bothers me.

Maybe I would feel more comfortable if he was a 6'11" PF.

This is from NBA DraftNet:



http://www.nbadraft.net/players/luka-doncic

This is from The Stepien:



https://www.thestepien.com/luka-doncic/

The scouting report of nbadraft.net is 2 years old.

Thestepiens' saying about his release being slow and low is simply wrong, IMO. He has a textbook jumper and a quick trigger. He takes 6 3P-shots per game while defenses focus primarily on him and hitting 34% of them.

 

[3rdside]

Here is the way I view it.

Maybe Doncic will turn out to be everything he is supposed to be, but I would be uncomfortable if the Suns drafted him with the first pick. Lack of lateral quickness bothers me.

Maybe I would feel more comfortable if he was a 6'11" PF.

This is from NBA DraftNet:



http://www.nbadraft.net/players/luka-doncic

This is from The Stepien:



https://www.thestepien.com/luka-doncic/

I don't trust NBADraft.net with anything - they kept comparing Josh Jackson to Kawhi Leonard amongst other things (this is an unforgivable acknowledgement of incompetence imo) and had Thon Maker as a 2nd rounder (although draftexrpress did the same thing..). You're better off watching videos yourself than believe what these guys write.

 

[hcsilla]

Here are my takeaways from that video of Doncic against the Thunder:

* He played very good defense in that one sequence against Westbrook.
* He made a few good floating passes over the top of the defense. It's doubtful that those would work regularly in the NBA, where everyone is faster and jumps more quickly, but they were effective against the Thunder.
* He can throw lobs and execute basic skip passes, like pretty much any other NBA guard.
* He has good instincts for pushing the ball.
* He can't finish in traffic and is easily intimidated.
* He is prone to lose his balance or get his footing scrambled up.
* He showed no leaping ability to speak of.
* His general level of quickness seems comparable to an average or slightly below average NBA wing.

I ask this as a serious question: Is he really the best player in Euroleague?

Saying THE best is always double-edged but he is definitely a top player.

I truly suggest for all the Doncic-doubters and -haters to watch a whole game of Doncic.

He is the complete package. Floor general. Can make a tricky pass and a simple one. Always knows when to take which. Fundamentally sound player. Uses jab-steps, hesitation moves, shot fakes, crossover, simple drives. Excellent shooter. Can create space and dangerous off-the dribble. Knows how to create contact and how to absorb it. Goes to the line frequently.
Rebounds. A willing defender, knows where to be in defense.

He is quick, but not really explosive and is not much of a leaper. Right now seems a (bit of) defensive liability in the NBA.


I have never seen a player with that advanced skills at the age of 19-20.

Some comparisons that came up in this thread is not far off at all. The funny thing is that Mike Miller with more passing seems the floor for Doncic.

The ceiling: I really don't know. I honestly believe that a taller Steve Nash is not out of question for him.

 

[3rdside]

He is top10 player.If Madrid can make it to final four and Doncic plays well i would say top5 with spanoulis shved de colo and vesely .In Last years semi final Doncic couldnt score single point thats my concern.That game was against one of the most dominant team of the euroleague history (Fenerbahçe)so its little normal.
Bogdan bogdanovic was the best player before he left europe.

This is really interesting - for the fact that McD traded away a seriously good player in Bogdan, for Marquese Chriss...liked it at the time but we're definitely losing out in this trade.

 

[hcsilla]

This is really interesting - for the fact that McD traded away a seriously good player in Bogdan, for Marquese Chriss...liked it at the time but we're definitely losing out in this trade.

Yes, especially that Papagiannis made the big leap out from the NBA.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

The sad thing is potentially losing a trade to a team that minutes later thought drafting Papagiannis in the lottery was a good idea. Hopefully, Chriss starts to get it together...

 

[devilalum]

The sad thing is potentially losing a trade to a team that minutes later thought drafting Papagiannis in the lottery was a good idea. Hopefully, Chriss starts to get it together...

All this 20/20 hindsight is mostly mental masturbation. The lotto is appropriately named because your chances of winning are not very good. Everybody misses.

 

[3rdside]

Yes, especially that Papagiannis made the big leap out from the NBA.

He’s a beast! And we had Booker anyway so he was expendable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Yeah. The only thing is Papagiannis was widely considered a very big reach at the time, and a reach from an organization that has been consistently inept. I was happy with the Chriss trade at the time; my only real point there was to say that losing a trade to the Kings is particularly hurtful because the Kings seem to mess up everything they touch (as evidenced by the Cavs trade article where everyone got mad at the kings for trying to retroactively dump PapaG in the Hood-Crowder deal).

 

[Mert]

What is the record of the team that Bogdan led last year and what is it now without him? I'm curious how much of a difference he made if he was the best player in Europe.

Also what is the record of Doncic's team? I don't know how many games are in the Euroleague season and I'm curious how his team compares to others since he's the leader of his team. Is he helping them win or are they coming up short.


Booker is a great player for the Suns but he's not leading the team to wins right now. Not that he hasn't helped them win games in the past but you can tell something about how productive a player is by how far he's capable of leading their team. In Booker's game he's stuck on a team that hasn't had an NBA quality PG for the majority of the season, definitely not one that warranted being a starter in the NBA. You could say that Warren is the only teammate that Booker has that might be a starter on another NBA team. I highly doubt anyone else out there would be starting Ulis, Mike James, Bender, or Chriss for the majority of the season.

Regular season standings do not mean a lot.Good teams like Olympiakos , Madrid , CSKA , Fenerbahce mostly finish top8 so they can go next stage.Big goal is finishing top4 for homecourt advantage.Last year Fenerbahce finished 5th and madrid finished first.Bogdanovic was injured for a long time last year.After he returned he played amazing and led his team to 3 championship.(Euroleague , Turkish League and Turkish Cup)I will try to compare post season stats for both.

Last years top8 stats for bogdan and luka :
Bogdan vs Panathinaikos:
Game1(away):23pts 5rb 4as (58-71W)
Game2(away):25pts 8rb 6as (75-80W)
Game(home):10pts 8rb 2as (79-61W)
So fenerbahce made it to Final four without homecourt advantage and without losing(first team in euroleague history to do that)

Luka Doncic vs Darusaffaka:
Game1(home):4pts 4rb 3as (83-75W)
Game2(home):0pts 5rb 6as (80-84L)
Game3(away):13pts 8rb 2as (81-88W)
Game4(away):11pts 5rb 7as (78-89W)

Fenerbahce vs Madrid Semi-Final Game in FinalFour:
Bogdanovic 14pts 6rb 1 as
Doncic 0 pts 2rb 3as
Fenerbahce Won 84-75

Bogdanovic vs Olympiakos (Final Game)
17pts 5rb 1as and the trophy

 

[Mert]

This is really interesting - for the fact that McD traded away a seriously good player in Bogdan, for Marquese Chriss...liked it at the time but we're definitely losing out in this trade.

I agree but he was very underrated in US when trade happened.A lot of people did not believed in him that time.

 

[3rdside]

I agree but he was very underrated in US when trade happened.A lot of people did not believed in him that time.

From mcd’s point of view i vaguely remember he was frustrated with the guy for delaying coming to the USA and then wanting a non rookie contract from the start, which he got (3 yrs / $36m), but I also remember thinking we would definitely be giving up a talent as well. On balance I was good with that as I was pretty high on Chriss.

 

[SirStefan32]

Don't forget that Bogdanovic is seven years older than Doncic.

 

[Mert]

From mcd’s point of view i vaguely remember he was frustrated with the guy for delaying coming to the USA and then wanting a non rookie contract from the start, which he got (3 yrs / $36m), but I also remember thinking we would definitely be giving up a talent as well. On balance I was good with that as I was pretty high on Chriss.

He wanted to win every cup in Europe.As soon as he did he left europe.I dont know the money story.
Doncic is better prospect than Bogdan was.But i dont think doncic will be better than Bogdan.