2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[Chaplin]

Guys this is nothing. It was more hostile back in the day. But most of the hardcore fans turn the page the next day and most have remained.

Used to be you’d never see a post where chap agreed with me or cheese and vice versa. We’ve actually mellowed with age.

Yes I agree.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah, I was surprised that anyone found it to be a hostile situation. We've all seen much bigger meltdowns here. I was actually surprised that despite the disappointing start, there's still a shiny thread of hope running though most posts.

Right?!? I mean the tank debates were much more heated than anything discussed this season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yes I agree.

SEE?!?

 

[JCSunsfan]

This is from an another website, but it is interesting. It is a list of our best 5 man rotations so far. It might provide some insight into our problems.

1. Canaan, Booker, Bridges, Anderson, Ayton +137.5 in 3:33 played
2. Booker, Jackson, Ariza, Anderson, Ayton +93.3 in 8:01 played
3. Canaan, Jackson, Warren, Ariza, Ayton +60.3 in 3:55 played
4. Canaan, Booker, Bridges, Anderson, Chandler +53.3 in 3:11 played
5. Canaan, Bridges, Jackson, Warren, Ayton +47.1 in 8:43 played
6. Booker, Bridges, Ariza, Anderson, Chandler +25 in 3:26 played
7. Booker, Jackson, Ariza, Warren, Ayton +6.8 in 11:44 played
8. Booker, Jackson, Ariza, Warren, Chandler +4.9 in 5:39 played
9. Canaan, Bridges, Ariza, Warren, Ayton +4.2 in 4:00 played
10. Canaan, Booker, Ariza, Anderson, Ayton -1.3 in 49:55 played

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1760051

Interesting things to note.

1. Canaan and Ayton are in 4 of the top 5 rotations.
2. Booker, Anderson, Jackson, Bridges are in 3.
3. Warren is in 2
4. Ariza is only in 1 of the top five.
5. Our starting rotation (#10) has the most minutes by far, but is quite mediocre.

Maybe we should start Bridges and bring Ariza off the bench. Start that top rotation.

 

[1Sun]

Sadly, it looks like Ariza is pulling this year what Bledsoe pulled at the beginning of last year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This is from an another website, but it is interesting. It is a list of our best 5 man rotations so far. It might provide some insight into our problems.

1. Canaan, Booker, Bridges, Anderson, Ayton +137.5 in 3:33 played
2. Booker, Jackson, Ariza, Anderson, Ayton +93.3 in 8:01 played
3. Canaan, Jackson, Warren, Ariza, Ayton +60.3 in 3:55 played
4. Canaan, Booker, Bridges, Anderson, Chandler +53.3 in 3:11 played
5. Canaan, Bridges, Jackson, Warren, Ayton +47.1 in 8:43 played
6. Booker, Bridges, Ariza, Anderson, Chandler +25 in 3:26 played
7. Booker, Jackson, Ariza, Warren, Ayton +6.8 in 11:44 played
8. Booker, Jackson, Ariza, Warren, Chandler +4.9 in 5:39 played
9. Canaan, Bridges, Ariza, Warren, Ayton +4.2 in 4:00 played
10. Canaan, Booker, Ariza, Anderson, Ayton -1.3 in 49:55 played

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1760051

Interesting things to note.

1. Canaan and Ayton are in 4 of the top 5 rotations.
2. Booker, Anderson, Jackson, Bridges are in 3.
3. Warren is in 2
4. Ariza is only in 1 of the top five.
5. Our starting rotation (#10) has the most minutes by far, but is quite mediocre.

Maybe we should start Bridges and bring Ariza off the bench. Start that top rotation.

I think that breakdown has limited value as it doesn’t take into account who is playing opposite each 5. Or course our starting 5 is going to look the worst when they log the most minutes against another team’s starters. Although ariza only being in 1 of 5 top groupings is troubling.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think that breakdown has limited value as it doesn’t take into account who is playing opposite each 5. Or course our starting 5 is going to look the worst when they log the most minutes against another team’s starters. Although ariza only being in 1 of 5 top groupings is troubling.

It has its flaws, but it does give a bit of direction to explore some different line ups.

I think the Lakers are much better with Ball and Kuzma starting than Rondo and Ingram. Sometimes fiddling with the line ups can help.

 

[Mainstreet]

Teo played 17 minutes for the Clippers yesterday against the Rockets and had 8 points, 5 assists and 7 rebounds.

These are the first minutes he has played this season.

This may stir up trade rumors again.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Like I just said on another thread, I would not mind picking up Milos if we cut Crawford to get him. If it means getting rid of Okobo or Melton, I would not want him. Also, we kinda need Daniels' shooting right now. There is an outside chance we could cut Bender. I would not mind letting Anderson go as long as it doesn't screw up his buyout next summer.

 

[Yuma]

Yes I agree.

That's the point right there! You are agreeing now! LMAO!

 

[overseascardfan]

Give Okobo 30 minutes a game and Melton the other 18 to see what you have. Limit Booker at PG so that he doesn't get burned out. Okobo looked good against OKC and with experience and minutes he could be long term answer at PG, what other choice does PHX have barring a trade?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Anderson should be a DNPCD. Ariza should be there soon if he does not pick things up. Its not about playing the young guys, its just about trying to win. When you are trotting out a starting line up of Ayton, Anderson, Ariza, Jackson, and Canaan, you only have one legitimate NBA starter in that line up.

Anderson does not warrant minutes at all, Ariza is close to the same place.

The good news is that all three of our draft picks this year look like keepers.

 

[TJ]

Give Okobo 30 minutes a game and Melton the other 18 to see what you have. Limit Booker at PG so that he doesn't get burned out. Okobo looked good against OKC and with experience and minutes he could be long term answer at PG, what other choice does PHX have barring a trade?

Agree. Okobo is the best PG on the roster, and that's not saying much. I would start him, honestly. Let him learn on the fly.

Regardless, we need to find a PG. Call Philly back and get McConnell here.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Agree. Okobo is the best PG on the roster, and that's not saying much. I would start him, honestly. Let him learn on the fly.

Regardless, we need to find a PG. Call Philly back and get McConnell here.

The AZ Republic (that's a newspaper people in Phoenix used to read) agrees with you.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...int-guard-elie-okobo-thunder-loss/1804152002/

 

[Suns_fan69]

Latest Zach Lowe piece on John Wall: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25187751/zach-lowe-john-wall-bradley-beal-washington-wizards-nba

We might be down to one plausible candidate to send Washington real value for Wall at some point over the next year-plus: Phoenix, run by an impatient owner, Robert Sarver, without a seasoned GM to check his most dangerous impulses.

I was amenable to a John Wall trade before, but after reading that article, I've changed my mind. Also, the piece that would have made this possible, Chandler, is no longer on the team so I don't think it'd be possible to pull it off without multiple rotation players.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Latest Zach Lowe piece on John Wall: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25187751/zach-lowe-john-wall-bradley-beal-washington-wizards-nba



I was amenable to a John Wall trade before, but after reading that article, I've changed my mind. Also, the piece that would have made this possible, Chandler, is no longer on the team so I don't think it'd be possible to pull it off without multiple rotation players.

He's a huge negative value IMO, I wouldn't touch him even if they sweetened the pot with an unprotected first and it only cost us cast offs.

Sarver has made some big mistakes but they would all pale in comparison if we went after this guy. John Wall is the problem to solutions we don't have.

 

[slinslin]

John Wall is a great but overpaid player

It all just depends on the price.

His contract wouldnt really hurt us that much

 

[AzStevenCal]

John Wall is a great but overpaid player

It all just depends on the price.

His contract wouldnt really hurt us that much

You have a much different opinion of greatness than I do apparently. He probably is a great talent but other than one season he has never really been more than a good player IMO. If he were in the West, I believe he'd have one all star game at most. He's reportedly a horrible leader, a horrible teammate, highly stat driven with bad knees. He's an inefficient shooter, top 10 for missed shots in 4 seasons. He's up there in assists but he's also led the league in turnovers twice and been among the top 10 every year but twice.

He's going to make 47M in the 22/23 season, how in the world does that contract not hurt whoever has him? Plus he has a 15% trade kicker. I think that falls on the Washington end but even still, that's going to make it even harder for them to find a trade they can live with. We should avoid him regardless of price IMO.

 

[slinslin]

Career averages of 19ppg and over 9apg

He is a great player that is simply undeniable and he can still get better, lots of PGs hitting their peak at 31-32. He is 32 in his last year.

Name a better passing PG in the NBA that is as good as Wall.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Career averages of 19ppg and over 9apg

He is a great player that is simply undeniable and he can still get better, lots of PGs hitting their peak at 31-32. He is 32 in his last year.

Name a better passing PG in the NBA that is as good as Wall.

Rarely does that include point guards that rely heavily on their athleticism. And you've ignored all his other shortcomings to come to your conclusions about him. Yes, he can pass and yes his career averages are good. Even if you ignore all the other negatives about him, you don't want a poor shooter taking the lion's share of shots. He shoots 43% on 16 shot attempts per game, that's a losing stat in today's NBA.

 

[GatorAZ]

Lowe’s basis of the possibility of Wall to Phoenix is that the Suns are incompetent enough to do it. That tells you all you need to know.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Lowe’s basis of the possibility of Wall to Phoenix is that the Suns are incompetent enough to do it. That tells you all you need to know.

Yeah, I didn't miss that, I just hope he's wrong. We are desperate but this would be the kind of mistake that could set you back several years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That read, particularly about the walking/standing stat was all I needed to read. 19 and 9 meaningless stats. Slinslin you can have your “undeniable superstar,” but keep him and his $30-40M salary off the suns. Yeeesh.






Edit: damn autocorrect “skin skin”

 

[AzStevenCal]

That read, particularly about the walking/standing stat was all I needed to read. 19 and 9 meaningless stats. Skin skin, you can have your “undeniable superstar,” but keep him and his $30-40M salary off the suns. Yeeesh.

Yeah and if you watch him play today you wonder why he was ever considered a good defender. I really don't understand how anyone could make a case to trade for this guy.

 

[Finito]

I'd rather have Beal.

But I think it's at the point they need to do something anything