2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[JCSunsfan]

If Igor's not playing him then we can address the need for a PG elsewhere. If we could deal Melton and bring back Hill that would mean we could sit Canaan entirely, which might get Igor to give Okobo a few more minutes because he has a steady hand he can go back to in Hill if he sucks out there. Right now though I'd be surprised to see Okobo, or Melton for that matter, see a good amount of playing time unless there is an injury. I think acquiring Hill, or another veteran PG, would be similar to us waiving Chandler though because it would remove Canaan from the rotation entirely and then Igor could experiment some with a backup more, like how Holmes walked into the backup big role without Chandler on the roster anymore. I don't think we would waive Canaan but I think he would be sitting like Daniels and Bender if we had a better PG to go to.

Poop. The "we just cut Canaan" thread was up when you wrote this. Ha.

 

[1tinsoldier]

an article pointed out how unusually tight the West playoff race is -- that the "lowly" Suns are the only team out of it.

competing teams are looking to add a piece so it's a seller's market
good time to sell if we had anything anyone wants

another article says,

adding Fultz to a core of 2018 No. 1 pick DeAndre Ayton, Devin Booker and others could really jumpstart the rebuild the Suns have found themselves stuck in for the last five-odd years.

i doubt Fultz would "jumpstart" anyone but the risk to reward is tempting for a team desperate for a pg IF the price is low

i mean, a case could be made for Fultz being in the G league this season
and yet the Cavs are said to be offering a protected first round pick for him?

 

[Hoop Head]

an article pointed out how unusually tight the West playoff race is -- that the "lowly" Suns are the only team out of it.

competing teams are looking to add a piece so it's a seller's market
good time to sell if we had anything anyone wants

another article says,

i doubt Fultz would "jumpstart" anyone but the risk to reward is tempting for a team desperate for a pg IF the price is low

i mean, a case could be made for Fultz being in the G league this season
and yet the Cavs are said to be offering a protected first round pick for him?

Do you have a link for the Fultz stuff? I'd like to check that out. I've seen a few mentions of the Suns being the only team in the West that is basically out of the playoff race at this point.

Teams need to get over the idea that sending a high draft pick, typically top 10 lottery picks, to the G-League is a bad thing. I know players and their agents don't like it but they need to get over it. Unlike Two-Way contracts they get paid their regular salary down there. Some players have asked for assignments down there. I've read of that happening with injured players especially. The negative stigma that is associated with the G-League and being a G-League player won't go away if teams don't utilize it better and as the developmental tool it's intended to be.

 

[elindholm]

I really like Brogden - that is a guy I would like to go after - but he will likely be around 12-15 mil a year by himself I would think.

I expect Brogdon to be more like 20 per. He's fundamentally sound, not quite 26 years old, a career 40% shooter from three, and one of the key players on a team that's 14-6. It won't surprise me at all if the Bucks keep Brogdon this summer and let someone else have Bledsoe.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Do you have a link for the Fultz stuff?

i didn't deem it link worthy and can't find it now but here's a more interesting idea
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...rkelle-fultz-bradley-beal-kemba-walker#slide0

4 team extravaganza:
Philadelphia 76ers Receive: Trevor Ariza, Grayson Allen, Damyean Dotson, Emmanuel Mudiay

New York Knicks Receive: Troy Daniels, Markelle Fultz, Furkan Korkmaz, Mike Muscala, 2019 second-round pick (via Utah)

Phoenix Suns Receive: Ricky Rubio

Utah Jazz Receive: Tim Hardaway Jr., Justin Patton

 

[JCSunsfan]

i didn't deem it link worthy and can't find it now but here's a more interesting idea
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...rkelle-fultz-bradley-beal-kemba-walker#slide0

I am not a big Rubio fan, but a trade of Ariza for Rubio doesn't have much downside. Rubio can distribute and play D. He is not a bad addition to the guard mix, as long as he is not considered "the answer" for the pg question.

 

[elindholm]

i didn't deem it link worthy and can't find it now but here's a more interesting idea
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...rkelle-fultz-bradley-beal-kemba-walker#slide0

Someone always gets screwed in those fan-invented multi-team trades, but it sure isn't Phoenix in that scenario.

 

[1Sun]

i didn't deem it link worthy and can't find it now but here's a more interesting idea
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...rkelle-fultz-bradley-beal-kemba-walker#slide0

Ariza and Daniels for Rubio? Sign me up.

 

[BC867]

Here is what I just posted in the Canaan thread. But it belongs here as well.

Ironically, it is in the news today that LeBron wants to play off the ball, but he is still playing the Point.

And disregarding Luke Walton in calling plays. And Walton had no choice but to give in and let LeBron call the plays.

Coincidence?

https://sports.yahoo.com/lebron-jam...ns-play-calls-nobodys-surprise-210514450.html

 

[1Sun]

Here is what I just posted in the Canaan thread. But it belongs here as well.

I don't think Canaan does any good for Lebron and the Lakers (unless he somehow was dogging it in a way that we couldn't see with Ariza), but if anyone working for the Suns had a role in cutting Canaan and perceived it as a Chandler-esque favor to Lebron and the Lakers (cough-cough, James Jones, cough-cough)...

 

[1tinsoldier]

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Looks like this may actually have a chance at becoming reality. Philly needs shooters so I assume Ariza is the one that would be traded out for Fultz & Muscala. Suns have the roster spot available to take on an additional player or two in a trade.

Fultz/Okobo/Melton
Booker/Daniels
Bridges/Jackson
Warren/Muscala
Ayton/Holmes

It's not too bad if Kokoskov can fix Fultz.

ok, i want credit for calling this over a week ago
clearly, the suns are monitoring my posts (-;
in which case, i should add
Fultz may respond well to a change in scenery
but i think he is a head case
worth a gamble, as long as it's a cheap gamble
(and it will take a better coach than Igor to make it pay off)

 

[Town Drunk]

The Knicks no longer view Frank Ntilikina as the point guard of their future, according to sources of Chris Vernon of The Ringer.

"I hate to report this to Knick fans, everyone I talked to was out on [Ntilikina], and it’s quick," said Vernon on The Mismatch podcast. "He’s not a point guard, they’ve been playing him at backup shooting guard, and he hit some shots early in the season, but the kid can’t shoot. And it was not a good report." One could debate the veracity of this statement, but what's clear is that Ntilikina is a non-option in fantasy hoops at the present moment.


Source: The Mismatch podcast
Nov 29 - 11:19 AM

 

[1Sun]

The Knicks no longer view Frank Ntilikina as the point guard of their future, according to sources of Chris Vernon of The Ringer.

"I hate to report this to Knick fans, everyone I talked to was out on [Ntilikina], and it’s quick," said Vernon on The Mismatch podcast. "He’s not a point guard, they’ve been playing him at backup shooting guard, and he hit some shots early in the season, but the kid can’t shoot. And it was not a good report." One could debate the veracity of this statement, but what's clear is that Ntilikina is a non-option in fantasy hoops at the present moment.


Source: The Mismatch podcast
Nov 29 - 11:19 AM

No surprise. He had bust written all over him, and I was thankful the Suns didn't get him in last year's draft.

 

[Mainstreet]

I am not a big Rubio fan, but a trade of Ariza for Rubio doesn't have much downside. Rubio can distribute and play D. He is not a bad addition to the guard mix, as long as he is not considered "the answer" for the pg question.

I feel much the same. Rubio would only be a temporary fix plus he is an expiring contract.

I think Okobo may eventually be a starter at point guard for the Suns but they need a veteran until he is ready.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The problem with Okobo is that he is a shoot first player. So was Canaan and practically every other pg we have had in recent memory. That is fine off the bench generating offense in a back up role, but our starting pg needs to be a facilitator. At least Rubio can do that.

I am not sure Okobo can make the jump in his mind from shoot first to facilitator. There are just not many pass first point guards around anymore.

 

[Hoop Head]

The problem with Okobo is that he is a shoot first player. So was Canaan and practically every other pg we have had in recent memory. That is fine off the bench generating offense in a back up role, but our starting pg needs to be a facilitator. At least Rubio can do that.

I am not sure Okobo can make the jump in his mind from shoot first to facilitator. There are just not many pass first point guards around anymore.

I like Okobo but I believe you're correct. I know it was said he played SG last year for his French team so he's yet another combo guard at best. I could see him being a backup for years to come, in a Barbosa sort of role, and having Crawford here to help him learn how to be a strong Sixth Man should help. Okobo seems eager to learn, which is a plus, hopefully we have the right people teaching him.

 

[1Sun]

I think a Barbosa role is precisely Okobo's best destiny. The team still needs a starting point guard. Even so, Okobo backing up Booker and Crawford at the point, as flawed and negative of an option as that is, is still far preferable to giving Isaiah Canaan 20-25 minutes a game and watching him single-handedly blow games for the team.

The fact remains that this team needs to trade for an NBA level starting point guard and has needed that for 2 years and counting...

 

[AzStevenCal]

The problem with Okobo is that he is a shoot first player. So was Canaan and practically every other pg we have had in recent memory. That is fine off the bench generating offense in a back up role, but our starting pg needs to be a facilitator. At least Rubio can do that.

I am not sure Okobo can make the jump in his mind from shoot first to facilitator. There are just not many pass first point guards around anymore.

I don't consider that a problem at all, far from it. A non shoot-first pg puts his team at a disadvantage in today's game and a shoot-first-and-miss pg like Canaan is even worse. But a point guard that is willing to make the right play whether that is driving, shooting or passing is what we need. Not a pass first guard like Rubio and not a 'shoot often but usually miss' Canaan. It remains to be seen whether Okobo is the right guy but if he's the wrong guy, IMO it won't be because he's actively looking for his own shot while running the offense.

 

[overseascardfan]

I don't consider that a problem at all, far from it. A non shoot-first pg puts his team at a disadvantage in today's game and a shoot-first-and-miss pg like Canaan is even worse. But a point guard that is willing to make the right play whether that is driving, shooting or passing is what we need. Not a pass first guard like Rubio and not a 'shoot often but usually miss' Canaan. It remains to be seen whether Okobo is the right guy but if he's the wrong guy, IMO it won't be because he's actively looking for his own shot while running the offense.

I agree, Lillard, Walker & Irving are all shoot first guys. I feel that is what make them a threat, they can create there own shot and score at will but when you try and contain them they can distribute. The key for me is if Okobo can become a defensive stopper then he can be shoot first and pass second and still be a force.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I agree, Lillard, Walker & Irving are all shoot first guys. I feel that is what make them a threat, they can create there own shot and score at will but when you try and contain them they can distribute. The key for me is if Okobo can become a defensive stopper then he can be shoot first and pass second and still be a force.

A shoot first pg has to be REALLY good otherwise he takes shots away from other players who would be more effective. Do we really want Okobo as a shoot first pg with Devin Booker playing next to him? The ball is in his hands and he is a shoot first guy? He becomes your #1 option then. Okobo is never going to be the #1 option on this team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

A shoot first pg has to be REALLY good otherwise he takes shots away from other players who would be more effective. Do we really want Okobo as a shoot first pg with Devin Booker playing next to him? The ball is in his hands and he is a shoot first guy? He becomes your #1 option then. Okobo is never going to be the #1 option on this team.

Absolutely. Even if Booker, Ayton and Warren put up 50 shots a game between them that still leaves 40 or so for the rest of the group. I'd just as soon have an efficient guard eating up another 10 or 15 of those shots then a Rubio or Canaan. If Okobo is a real threat, Booker and even Ayton will get better looks.

 

[95pro]

A shoot first pg has to be REALLY good otherwise he takes shots away from other players who would be more effective. Do we really want Okobo as a shoot first pg with Devin Booker playing next to him? The ball is in his hands and he is a shoot first guy? He becomes your #1 option then. Okobo is never going to be the #1 option on this team.

Then its just Canaan/Booker all over again.

 

[1Sun]

Then its just Canaan/Booker all over again.

Except Okobo is 1,000 times the player Canaan is, even as a rookie.

 

[overseascardfan]

A shoot first pg has to be REALLY good otherwise he takes shots away from other players who would be more effective. Do we really want Okobo as a shoot first pg with Devin Booker playing next to him? The ball is in his hands and he is a shoot first guy? He becomes your #1 option then. Okobo is never going to be the #1 option on this team.

Okobo can play off the ball so he and Booker can share ball handling duties. Okobo is a good catch and shoot player so he won't necessarily take shots away from guys because Booker can create shots for him and vice versa, he doesn't need the ball in his hands to to be effective. That's why I said if he becomes a good defensive player, he and Booker would make a great backcourt.

 

[1Sun]

Just confirmed on Burns and Gambo: The Suns did, in fact, have a deal in place with the Charlotte Hornets for their draft pick to take Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, but Sarver nixed it, and the Hornets traded with the Clippers instead as their Plan B. Don't know what the terms of the deal were, but I can only guess it was similar to the package they gave up for Bridges.

Interesting other tidbit: McDonough had Gilgeous-Alexander rated as his #1 point guard in the draft, over Trae Young and Colin Sexton.