2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[Finito]

Suns targeting Ntilikina?

Meh

 

[devilalum]

Right now the Suns <<The sum of their parts. They have some talented pieces but they can’t seem to put it together.


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[1Sun]

Suns targeting Ntilikina?

Meh

Please tell me you're joking.

 

[1Sun]

Right now the Suns <<The sum of their parts. They have some talented pieces but they can’t seem to put it together.


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An indictment of coaching if ever there was one.

 

[devilalum]

An indictment of coaching if ever there was one.

Maybe I’m overvaluing Suns talent but there are some other teams around the league that seem to be winning more with less.

Is the Suns disfunction the result of coaching or ownership?

Or both?


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[JCSunsfan]

Suns targeting Ntilikina?

Meh

If we are going to give Elie a good look lets do it. Ntilikina seems a pretty sideways move to me. So yeah. Meh.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Maybe I’m overvaluing Suns talent but there are some other teams around the league that seem to be winning more with less.


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We have the worst PG and PF situation in the entire NBA. Sure we have talent, but we have gaping holes in two very important spots.

 

[Mainstreet]

Gambo really choked during the draft. Maybe it's just who he is, and his personality, but he always comes across like he's the smartest guy in the room who knows all sides of everything so when he was repeatedly wrong on draft night it got to him. You could tell by his tone that he was frustrated because he was in the dark but he was doing a live show. I remember him announcing the Suns selected DiVincenzo only for the feed to go to the commissioner who announced Zhaire Smith as the selection. At that point in the night it was a fitting end to his coverage, basically. Woj and Sham had already posted the trade but Gambo was stubborningly trying to figure out what was going on.

I've heard a number of people try to say whose Gambo's source within the Suns is. McD is the only person who has ever been ruled out, I think. Some have said Sarver, some said Dragic, some said Dudley, some have said Mark West, Hornacek, Majerle, Chambers. I've heard a lot of different names. I think Sarver might feed him some stuff but only what he won't come out and say himself. When Gambo is handling that stuff it's really obvious though.

I think Gambo's inside sources with the Suns has dried up or so it appears. His 2018 draft coverage solidified it with me. The confusion fed my fantasy the Suns were moving up from #16 to draft Shai.

Now Gambo is one of the last options I check for Suns news. Sometimes there are some news nuggets but they are getting harder to find. I always thought Gambo's source of news was Sarver but who knows. Sarver is still available.

 

[Mainstreet]

Gambo was reporting that the Suns had a deal in place with the Charlotte to move up to 11 and draft SGA. He even announced it. Then someone in the Suns front office nixed the trade.

Philly picked Mikal but then when the Suns 16 pick came around and Smith was still on the board, Philly called the Suns back (there had been earlier negotiations) and asked if the Suns were still interested in Bridges.

So here is the question. Who negotiated the trade and who nixed it? Who were the Suns going to give up for the #11 pick. This is the time when people will get all over Sarver for meddling. It was Sarver most likely, but we do not know for sure. But the other question is what were they giving up? What was it that Charlotte would have wanted?

Bender? There were a lot of good feelings about Bender at draft time.
Chriss? He was still an asset.
TJ. He would have been a piece most of us would have traded at that time without too much worry.
2019 Suns pick. I could see that pick being in the mix and someone on the Suns wanting to hold it.
Miami pick. Absolutely. Everyone wanted that asset from us.
Milwaukee pick. Maybe, but it would have taken more.

Pure conjecture but I though the trade piece might be Jackson. I'm not sure why but the thought lingers. This would be enough to upset Sarver plenty in regards to McDonough especially considering the results of the 2016 draft.

 

[devilalum]

We have the worst PG and PF situation in the entire NBA. Sure we have talent, but we have gaping holes in two very important spots.

The Suns have been terrible for so long. There’s really only one person to blame at this point.


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[JCSunsfan]

Maybe I’m overvaluing Suns talent but there are some other teams around the league that seem to be winning more with less.

Is the Suns disfunction the result of coaching or ownership?

Or both?


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Three rookies playing significant minutes in the 8 man rotation.
New coach and system. The coach is focusing on long term over immediate wins.
Extremely difficult strength of schedule so far. Top two I think.
Rotation still being settled, especially at pg.
Josh Jackson is single-handedly killing us with his turnovers. It is the single most impactful stat so far.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns have been terrible for so long. There’s really only one person to blame at this point.

J Walter Kennedy, for finally giving in to pressure from the owners and letting Phoenix have a team in the first place?

 

[Chaplin]

I think, clearly, it was Sarver or it was Jones if it actually went down the way Gambo reported. And honestly, I don't know which one would be worse. Also, as you mentioned, we don't know what the cost would have been for SGA. Perhaps it was overruled because it required our unprotected pick this season or something like that.

Here’s a question, if Sarver is Gambo’s source, doesn’t logic dictate that this recent news came from Sarver? If you buy that logic, why would he reveal that to Gambo now? It would only make him look worse than he already is.

Either Gambo’s story is bull or his source isn’t Sarver.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Here’s a question, if Sarver is Gambo’s source, doesn’t logic dictate that this recent news came from Sarver? If you buy that logic, why would he reveal that to Gambo now? It would only make him look worse than he already is.

Either Gambo’s story is bull or his source isn’t Sarver.

I think Sarver in the past has frequently been his source but the constant leaks stopped somewhere between the hiring of Babby and the hiring of McD. But I don't think there's any logic available when it comes to reasoning this out as we have far too few facts to build on. IOW, it's anyone's guess at this time.

 

[Proximo]

Agreed, Fultz value is as low as it gets. The situation with PHI is not salvageable as the players are tired of the drama. Ironically, I've seen Fultz for Ball rumors, but if I was PHX maybe Bender and a pick.

Don't worry. Philadelphia has no interest in Jackson.

If a trade happens Ariza will be the centerpiece.

We could offer Bender and the Millwaukee pick - they will just say no, we would rather have Ariza.

 

[95pro]

Three rookies playing significant minutes in the 8 man rotation.
New coach and system. The coach is focusing on long term over immediate wins.
Extremely difficult strength of schedule so far. Top two I think.
Rotation still being settled, especially at pg.
Josh Jackson is single-handedly killing us with his turnovers. It is the single most impactful stat so far.

JJ @ 2.1
Booker @ 4.3

Turnovers are turnovers no matter who makes them, still counts as lost possessions that could add point to the scoreboard for the opposing team.

 

[Proximo]

We have the worst PG and PF situation in the entire NBA. Sure we have talent, but we have gaping holes in two very important spots.

You can not get outrebounded by 20 and expect to win a game - period. That has been happening over and over. We need another rebounder besides Ayton at PF that just is not on the roster.

I don't agree that currently this team is under performing it's talent.

For instance you can't go to Ayton in crunch time and expect him to score - Currently he is not a go to player. He simply does not know how to play defense at an NBA level now either.

Bridges can't create his own shot. Jackson plays stupid - a lot, I don't think it is lack of coaching he just doesn't listen because his problems are obvious enough any coach would tell him what to stop doing.

Yes, we do have our starting lineup that typically can hang with anyone - but nearly every time our bench comes in they get their butt kicked. Maybe Okobo will help with that, but I doubt he will consistently repeat his last performance.

We are lacking enough depth to win. The other thing we are lacking is a shot creator outside of Booker. Shut him down, and our offense grinds to a halt.

I do not think coaching has anything to do with why we are losing, coaching cannot fix flaws in team construction, and simply lacking enough NBA level players.

With all that said - In time I am a strong believer that Ayton will be an all-star, and that Bridges, Okobo, and even Jackson have a very good chance at being above average NBA players.

Like it or not it will just require patience.

 

[1Sun]

If we are going to give Elie a good look lets do it. Ntilikina seems a pretty sideways move to me. So yeah. Meh.

Ntilikina is Harrison and Canaan all over again. Forget meh. More like HELL NO!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Don't worry. Philadelphia has no interest in Jackson.

If a trade happens Ariza will be the centerpiece.

We could offer Bender and the Millwaukee pick - they will just say no, we would rather have Ariza.

I remember 40 some years ago being a young father and how much of a challenge it was to learn how to say no. Hope our front office has learned the same skill. I would offer nothing of real value for Fultz, just absorbing his guaranteed contract is already an overpay. I understand they may insist on more, but just because they were stupid enough to trade up for him doesn't mean we have to pay any kind of premium for damaged goods.

 

[95pro]

I remember 40 some years ago being a young father and how much of a challenge it was to learn how to say no. Hope our front office has learned the same skill. I would offer nothing of real value for Fultz, just absorbing his guaranteed contract is already an overpay. I understand they may insist on more, but just because they were stupid enough to trade up for him doesn't mean we have to pay any kind of premium for damaged goods.

+1

I'm not sure why people are suggesting we give up role players and picks for him.

 

[1tinsoldier]

I remember 40 some years ago being a young father and how much of a challenge it was to learn how to say no. Hope our front office has learned the same skill. I would offer nothing of real value for Fultz, just absorbing his guaranteed contract is already an overpay. I understand they may insist on more, but just because they were stupid enough to trade up for him doesn't mean we have to pay any kind of premium for damaged goods.

i don't disagree. but if Cavs were offering a protected first round pick (and Philly didn't bite), it appears others are not afraid to absorb his contract guarantee.

the thing that makes the JJ swap doable is that JJ is risky too.
but he has played better the past week. and i don't believe he's had enough playing time in the past month to be blamed for the Suns losses. i think he has good bb iq and bad execution. but execution can improve with experience.

i don't know where Fultz's head is, but it may be up his ass.

i'll bet the Suns are mulling over it.

 

[Proximo]

+1

I'm not sure why people are suggesting we give up role players and picks for him.

I'm really not.

Just Ariza. Ariza is going to be traded at the deadline - it's just a question of for what.

The way I look at it is this season is meaningless. Ariza has zero chance of being here next year - it would be stupid not to trade him.

Any deal that is made has to be forward looking. I understand Fultz is a huge gamble, he also is the biggest potential payoff.

What are we risking by trading for him - worst case we are stuck with his salary next year and we don't pick up his fourth year option. We give up Ariza for half of a meaningless season to get him. So basically we are giving up nothing.

He is still 20 - if he gets his shot figured out we have a potential all star point guard for years.

Or we could trade for Rubio, a below average starter with no upside. Not to mention we can likely sign him in FA at the end of the year anyway.

What does this team have to lose? When you are the worst team in the league is when you should swing for the fences.

 

[JCSunsfan]

i don't disagree. but if Cavs were offering a protected first round pick (and Philly didn't bite), it appears others are not afraid to absorb his contract guarantee.

the thing that makes the JJ swap doable is that JJ is risky too.
but he has played better the past week. and i don't believe he's had enough playing time in the past month to be blamed for the Suns losses. i think he has good bb iq and bad execution. but execution can improve with experience.

i don't know where Fultz's head is, but it may be up his ass.

i'll bet the Suns are mulling over it.

I would not trade JJ. JJ is still going to be a good player. I have no doubt of that. I have huge doubts about Fultz.

 

[1Sun]

The only things that should be on the table for Fultz (or a package featuring Fultz):

Ariza
Ryan Anderson
Bender
Daniels
Second Round Picks
Milwaukee Pick

 

[1tinsoldier]

anyone up for Fultz for Ariza and Milwaukee pick?