2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[sunsfan88]

Right. And I believe same for Barbosa (didn’t spurs draft him for us too?)

Yes. Most underrated player (imo) in franchise history.

 

[sunsfan88]

I’m curious what your expectations are of bridges to make such a strong comment. He was projected to be a great 3 point shooter and defender. From watching SL those two items look like they will play out. Similarly he was said to be deficient in being able to put the ball on the floor and create either his own shot or shots for others. That also seemed to be confirmed in SL. He’s also not a crazy athlete. Certainly not a bad, or even below average, athlete - but on JJ’s level. Rarely does a player acquire superior ballhandling skills in their 20s (in fact I’ve been wracking my brain trying to come up with a single example). So I think bridges ceiling is limited to a 3-D guy. Perhaps an elite 3-D guy, but that’s still a somewhat limited level player. I think it relegated him to elite #4 guy on a championship team, but if he’s your #3 you better have LeBron James on your team.

That said I really like bridges. Don’t get my commentary the wrong way. I just see his upside as limited to a guy who may shoot 3s at 40% at volume and shutdown defender. That will be welcome alongside booker and Ayton (if he develops as hoped for), but limits his overall value imo.

He actually didn’t shoot the 3 very well in summer league. He had a great first game and then shot the 3 very poorly the rest of the games.

 

[sunsfan88]

Maybe I'm alone on this. If I were the Suns, I would not have included the unprotected Miami pick for Bridges. Another first round pick, yes, but not the Miami pick even if it meant not getting him.

The reason being, that Miami pick held special value, more than the pick itself. It might have helped the Suns trade for a star player later on.

When I heard we traded up, I was hoping we traded the Bucks pick instead of the Heat pick.

 

[Mainstreet]

What does that mean? The Miami pick was an asset, like any other asset. How would the Miami pick hold MORE value than say, our own unprotected pick? Are you saying you would have been more ok to include our own pick and not the Miami pick? What is the difference?

There was no way we were going to get Bridges without at least one of those picks. The only thing you can infer is that you don't like Bridges enough to include a draft pick 3 years in the future. That's really all you have to say.

It's still up in the air, but from everything I've seen so far, IMO you're going to eat your words when Bridges becomes what he can become.

The fact that the Miami pick was unprotected and they appear in decline, makes the pick more valuable. I think this is why the 76ers were set on getting this pick.

The Suns could have protected their own draft pick if they wanted to use it.

I didn't like Bridges enough to part with the future Miami pick and the #16 pick. If the Suns liked Bridges, I would have not offered more than #16 and another first round pick... not the future Miami pick.

 

[Mainstreet]

When I heard we traded up, I was hoping we traded the Bucks pick instead of the Heat pick.

Exactly or a protected Suns draft pick. The 76ers valued that future Miami pick a lot.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, one of these situations that drives me crazy is Dragic. Just the other day on a summer league broadcast they talked about the Spurs legend of drafting great players late in the second round and Dragic was one of the examples. WRONG! The Spurs were making that pick FOR the Suns. The Suns had a deal in place and told the Spurs whom to draft for us. This was NOT and example of a great Spurs draft pick! Just like the Suns didn't choose to draft Rondo for themselves.

It gets confusing in this respect because we are often talking about draft rights.

Bridges was already drafted by the 76ers as you noted whereas the Spurs selected Dragic and Barbosa for the Suns. However, looking back on past draft selections, sometimes it only shows which team drafted the player.

 

[Chaplin]

When I heard we traded up, I was hoping we traded the Bucks pick instead of the Heat pick.

I’m sure everybody would agree with that. But the Suns really loved Bridges, and regardless what we think of him or the Suns, they think he’s worth parting with a pick 3 years down the road.

Miami doesn’t look too good right now, but there is no history that the Heat will remain in he cellar for very long. And since they don’t have hat pick anymore there is no incentive for them to tank that year.

 

[Hoop Head]

I found this interesting from the Q&A from Bordow, it seems to point to Reed being ahead of Shaq in terms of locking down a spot on the team next season. He said Shaq is the odd man out, of course that could also have to do with the Suns adding another PG which would definitely push Shaq out of the 15 man main roster. I really like when Bordow does Q&A's on Twitter. He does a good job answering a lot of questions and typically skips similar questions. Don't think he had nearly as many tweets today to choose from though.

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[Mainstreet]

Bordow does an article on his question and answer session on twitter today so if one wants to read it in it's entirety see the link below.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...ndre-ayton-devin-book-phoenix-suns/792857002/

 

[Mainstreet]

I found this interesting from the Q&A from Bordow, it seems to point to Reed being ahead of Shaq in terms of locking down a spot on the team next season. He said Shaq is the odd man out, of course that could also have to do with the Suns adding another PG which would definitely push Shaq out of the 15 man main roster. I really like when Bordow does Q&A's on Twitter. He does a good job answering a lot of questions and typically skips similar questions. Don't think he had nearly as many tweets today to choose from though.

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I think the Suns can find a trade for Shaq if they can't keep it. Maybe I have a bias here but I think Shaq impressed with his defense in summer league and last season. However, I want to keep both Reed and Shaq if there is any way possible.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think the Suns can find a trade for Shaq if they can't keep it. Maybe I have a bias here but I think Shaq impressed with his defense in summer league and last season. However, I want to keep both Reed and Shaq if there is any way possible.

That's true but if they waive him they can try to sign him to their G-League team or on a Two-Way deal. Apparently they can't convert him to a Two-Way deal because when he signed it was a multi-year deal, including the tail end of last season and this coming season. The way deals can be converted are a bit tricky and being a multi-year deal apparently causes an issue. Trading him for a 2nd round pick or something, which would probably be his value, keep the Suns from adding him back to the team in some capacity later, either on the NAZ Suns or the main team.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's true but if they waive him they can try to sign him to their G-League team or on a Two-Way deal. Apparently they can't convert him to a Two-Way deal because when he signed it was a multi-year deal, including the tail end of last season and this coming season. The way deals can be converted are a bit tricky and being a multi-year deal apparently causes an issue. Trading him for a 2nd round pick or something, which would probably be his value, keep the Suns from adding him back to the team in some capacity later, either on the NAZ Suns or the main team.

This is where I show my favoritism. I do not think Shaq would clear waivers. I could be totally wrong but defense is his selling point.

Wouldn't this be ironic. The Suns waive a PG and another team picks him up.

I do think a 2nd round pick is the best the Suns could hope for in a trade but I doubt another team does it.

 

[devilalum]

Exactly or a protected Suns draft pick. The 76ers valued that future Miami pick a lot.

If Bridges is great nobody will care.

 

[Mainstreet]

If Bridges is great nobody will care.

This is true. If Bridges succeeds no one will care. However, if he does not live up to expectations we will be talking about it for a long time.

 

[Hoop Head]

Suns fans seem to have a long memory because it's been so long since we've been relevant. We heard about the Lakers pick forever and I hope the Miami pick doesn't end up being the same thing. If Bridges is good and the Suns start winning though I think most will forget about it altogether until it conveys and hopefully it's just a small footnote to add about how the Sixers ended up with a pick in the 20's that year.

 

[Mainstreet]

Suns fans seem to have a long memory because it's been so long since we've been relevant. We heard about the Lakers pick forever and I hope the Miami pick doesn't end up being the same thing. If Bridges is good and the Suns start winning though I think most will forget about it altogether until it conveys and hopefully it's just a small footnote to add about how the Sixers ended up with a pick in the 20's that year.

If the Suns wanted Kawhi. That pick would be golden right now.

 

[Chaplin]

We ended up with the Lakers pick anyway, and it was... Mikal Bridges.

 

[Errntknght]

This is where I show my favoritism. I do not think Shaq would clear waivers. I could be totally wrong but defense is his selling point.

Wouldn't this be ironic. The Suns waive a PG and another team picks him up.

I do think a 2nd round pick is the best the Suns could hope for in a trade but I doubt another team does it.

I don't think it is favoritism at all. I'd bet that Harrison would be claimed off waivers. He's likely flying below the radar for most teams but someone will notice and grab him. Hopefully, Igor will push for him to be retained as he values defense. I'm not sure I'd waive him instead of Reed if push came to shove - mainly because Reed took so long to recover from his injury. If I were running things there are several others I'd move before I'd waive either one of them - Chriss, Bender, Dudley, Chandler, Warren. Warren is a plus contributor but he's redundent and the others are not positive contributors. Sure, one hates to give up on young guys but I've scant hope for either Chriss or Bender to become plus contributors.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He actually didn’t shoot the 3 very well in summer league. He had a great first game and then shot the 3 very poorly the rest of the games.

I believe 4/11 so 36% overall on small sample size. Seems accurate with greater distance.

 

[Phrazbit]

There are two factors: if Bridges is great no one will care and secondly, if Miami is a even a playoff team, no one will care.

We turned an asset into a player I really like. It's what it's for and I think, odds are, we'll feel good about it in 3 years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think the Suns can find a trade for Shaq if they can't keep it. Maybe I have a bias here but I think Shaq impressed with his defense in summer league and last season. However, I want to keep both Reed and Shaq if there is any way possible.

I think this is a classic case of sins fans overvaluing our fringe players. No one has signed Len or sauce. We thought both had value. The reality is that Shaq is a fringe nba player.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't think it is favoritism at all. I'd bet that Harrison would be claimed off waivers. He's likely flying below the radar for most teams but someone will notice and grab him. Hopefully, Igor will push for him to be retained as he values defense. I'm not sure I'd waive him instead of Reed if push came to shove - mainly because Reed took so long to recover from his injury. If I were running things there are several others I'd move before I'd waive either one of them - Chriss, Bender, Dudley, Chandler, Warren. Warren is a plus contributor but he's redundent and the others are not positive contributors. Sure, one hates to give up on young guys but I've scant hope for either Chriss or Bender to become plus contributors.

“Took so long to recover” - what-the-what?!?

 

[JCSunsfan]

We will keep Shaq because it is a position of need. We really need to keep Reed as well. There is no reason whatsoever to keep Dudley. Waive him and he can sit and eat burritos just like before, but at least the team won't have to pay for those oversized shorts. He is not going to see the court this year anyway.

 

[Hoop Head]

“Took so long to recover” - what-the-what?!?

I almost questioned that too but I thought I'd wait to see if someone else did. He was a high 2nd round pick who had surgery last offseason, for an injury suffered playing for the Suns in SL last year. He didn't recover that quickly but he did recover fully. I don't think his recovery was longer than anticipated and last year we had quite a tumultuous season so squeezing him in when they did was difficult. He showed he was 100% in Summer League this year and knowing he's now healthy they shouldn't let him go now. He played great in SL this year and proved he deserves a longer look, if nothing else.

We will keep Shaq because it is a position of need. We really need to keep Reed as well. There is no reason whatsoever to keep Dudley. Waive him and he can sit and eat burritos just like before, but at least the team won't have to pay for those oversized shorts. He is not going to see the court this year anyway.

FWIW Dudley has reportedly lost 12 pounds already this offseason and looks to make an impact next year. We'll see if he does but he's focused on getting in better shape which is a plus. He's also like having an extra coach on the team. He has value and more value here than waived, especially if we're paying his salary anyways. He'll see more minutes than either of the fringe guards discussed and he's also someone Igor can put in when games are close and he needs a composed veteran. I expect we'll see Knight, Booker, Dudley, Ariza, and Chandler on the floor together as sort of a veteran lineup for Igor.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

For those in the Patrick Beverley camp...

It's a slow news cycle now, so he got publicity for saying the Clippers are better than the Warriors, but I was more interested in his reaction at 1:09 of this clip:

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