2018 NL West thread

[Shaggy]

Dammit... Giants were down 7-2 to the Rockies. Come back and take an 8-7 lead, only to cough it up in the 8th inning and COL goes on to win 9-8. Could you even imagine the Dbacks scoring 9 runs in a game? Or even over two games???

Nope, they are averaging 2 runs now over the last 8 games(there not going to score anymore runs in the game against the Padres). Pretty sad.

 

[Willie D]

At this stage of the season, Rockheads will take over 1st in the NLW, DBs will go 3 down but still within 1 game of the Doyers for the WC. And just for the bleep of it, how do the Gigantes and Rockies, with the two worst bullpens since Lee Elia and Billy Martin, combine for that putrid pitching performance (consonance not intended)?

If the Scrubs and Braves win their divisions, the WC front-runners would become St. Louis and Milwaukee. It's beginning to look more like "win the division or go home" for the DBs. Those dudes look like they need Fungo bats. Or, as Joe Garagiola once said, canoe paddles.

 

[AZ Native]

We are 3 down with 19 to play and have given away half a dozen games in the last 2 weeks. Does anyone believe?

 

[Shaggy]

We are 3 down with 19 to play and have given away half a dozen games in the last 2 weeks. Does anyone believe?

There done unless somehow their bats start going crazy. The only way I see them staying in this race is if they dominate Colorado next series, but the way they are playing, I don't see that happening.

 

[AZ Native]

OK, you say they are done? Please move on to the Cardinals' board let the rest of us still root for our team. We gave away a lot of games and we are only 3 out We are not done.
Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

 

[Broseph]

OK, you say they are done? Please move on to the Cardinals' board let the rest of us still root for our team. We gave away a lot of games and we are only 3 out We are not done.
Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

This team is done, they are a sub .500 team for 80% of the season. They are a mediocre team that got lucky in the beginning of the year and for most of the season they have played to what they are, a mediocre to sub-mediocre baseball team with an anemic offense and poor bullpen.

 

[Shaggy]

OK, you say they are done? Please move on to the Cardinals' board let the rest of us still root for our team. We gave away a lot of games and we are only 3 out We are not done.
Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

You tell them (and me)! Ha ha..

 

[AZ Native]

Why is everything a ha ha with you? BTW, the Cards are going 2-14 so don't go there.

 

[Shaggy]

Why is everything a ha ha with you? BTW, the Cards are going 2-14 so don't go there.

Cause it's funny how you're pissed about me being pissed. I'm frustrated and this is how I cope, post my frustrations on the forum. Can't I post my frustrations for the dbacks on here? Is that what this forum is for?

Yeah, figured they were done the way they have been playing and if they lost this game, they would have been. Glad to see them continuing to fight and glad torey is finally making some bullpen adjustments.

I will always be a dback fan, no matter how I post about them, that's what true fans do, hate when they lose and post about that hate/frustrations on here.

 

[BC867]

Cause it's funny how you're pissed about me being pissed. I'm frustrated and this is how I cope, post my frustrations on the forum. Can't I post my frustrations for the dbacks on here? Is that what this forum is for? ...

I will always be a dback fan, no matter how I post about them, that's what true fans do, hate when they lose and post about that hate/frustrations on here.

Hell, Shaggy, if the man who provides this forum for us can't share his feelings, who can? Thank you for supporting the rest of us who put our hearts into our teams, too, and do it realistically.

Being thrilled when they are doing their best (from the investors to the front office to the manager/coaches to the players) and venting/sharing our frustrations when they are not.

It was a pleasure watching Torey Lovullo choose our best two relievers tonight to close out the game. Hopefully it won't be abandoned as long as Ziegler and Yoshi do it well. Torey does have a history of a short attention span when it comes to recent changes. Goldy batting second. Souza leading off. Pollock leading off. Peralta leading off.

The players and fans should take it one game at a time. The manager needs to look ahead, of course, but at things other than scheduled days off regardless of circumstances.

OK, it's almost midnight. I'll stop venting.

 

[Shaggy]

Hell, Shaggy, if the man who provides this forum for us can't share his feelings, who can? Thank you for supporting the rest of us who put our hearts into our teams, too, and do it realistically.

Being thrilled when they are doing their best (from the investors to the front office to the manager/coaches to the players) and venting/sharing our frustrations when they are not.

It was a pleasure watching Torey Lovullo choose our best two relievers tonight to close out the game. Hopefully it won't be abandoned as long as Ziegler and Yoshi do it well. Torey does have a history of a short attention span when it comes to recent changes. Goldy batting second. Souza leading off. Pollock leading off. Peralta leading off.

The players and fans should take it one game at a time. The manager needs to look ahead, of course, but at things other than scheduled days off regardless of circumstances.

OK, it's almost midnight. I'll stop venting.

Exactly. Torey needs to stick with what is working. He hasn't yet this season and is still playing musical chairs. I hope last night has made him see the light and stick with what is working. If he drastic changes the lineup today, then we all know he's back to his old ways.

Just wish he decided to mess with the bullpen, like he did last night, weeks ago.

 

[DWKB]

Exactly. Torey needs to stick with what is working. He hasn't yet this season and is still playing musical chairs. I hope last night has made him see the light and stick with what is working. If he drastic changes the lineup today, then we all know he's back to his old ways.

Just wish he decided to mess with the bullpen, like he did last night, weeks ago.

When you make statements like this, do you just completely ignore things like opposing pitchers and platoon splits?

 

[BC867]

When you make statements like this, do you just completely ignore things like opposing pitchers and platoon splits?

How can you ask that? As I've posted before, I have a lot of respect for two set batting orders throughout the season -- a righty/lefty platoon -- just as the great Gil Hodges used at four positions when managing the '69 Miracle Mets to the World Series Championship.

Lovullo's lineups/batting orders are not a righty/lefty platoon, with a set lineup for each. They are more a case of his constant benching of starters . Yes, there has been some regard then for righty/lefty splits, but he is not a strict platoon manager in filling out lineup cards throughout the season. We never know what to expect. Especially if we listen to what he tells the Press.

 

[Shaggy]

When you make statements like this, do you just completely ignore things like opposing pitchers and platoon splits?

Have you been watching some of their games? They made several mediocre pitchers look like cy youngers. Not just once or twice, several times. I blame that on the batting order being moved around so much and not allowing batters to get used to their batting positions.

I'm no expert so of course I'm guessing on this, but it would seem switching them wasn't working.

 

[DWKB]

Have you been watching some of their games? They made several mediocre pitchers look like cy youngers. Not just once or twice, several times. I blame that on the batting order being moved around so much and not allowing batters to get used to their batting positions.

I'm no expert so of course I'm guessing on this, but it would seem switching them wasn't working.

Mediocre pitchers often look like cy young caliber pitchers against mediocre to inept offenses.

How do you explain a team like CHC who uses just as many lineups and scores more runs?

What basis gives you the impression that consistent order is the problem over larger issues like talent?

How do you know the lineup tweeking hasn’t generated a few more runs than we should have scored and won us a few more games this season than we should have won?

 

[82CardsGrad]

Mediocre pitchers often look like cy young caliber pitchers against mediocre to inept offenses.

How do you explain a team like CHC who uses just as many lineups and scores more runs?

What basis gives you the impression that consistent order is the problem over larger issues like talent?

How do you know the lineup tweeking hasn’t generated a few more runs than we should have scored and won us a few more games this season than we should have won?

I've been trying to make this point to BC and Shaggy all year... I even did a quick study that PROVED the Dbacks haven't "changed" their line-up in any manner that is inconsistent with how the rest of the league, particularly leading teams, manage their respective offense.

 

[Shaggy]

Like I said, I'm just guessing. To me, its a head scratcher when it comes to a talent issue. Goldy had probably his best month in his career in August(was that the month he turned into superman?) and the month before and after that, he stinks. That can't be because he sucks at what he does, can it? Is it mental, physical, or mechanics? Same goes for several other players. They can't all be hot then cold at the same time unless something is messing with their heads?

 

[DWKB]

Like I said, I'm just guessing. To me, its a head scratcher when it comes to a talent issue. Goldy had probably his best month in his career in August(was that the month he turned into superman?) and the month before and after that, he stinks. That can't be because he sucks at what he does, can it? Is it mental, physical, or mechanics? Same goes for several other players. They can't all be hot then cold at the same time unless something is messing with their heads?

As an example, a .300 hitter doesn’t get a hit exactly every 3 or so AB, he goes 4-4 in some games and 0-4 in others and it settles out to 3 our of 10.

On top of that, the level of competition matters and Sept is tougher than Aug.

Also, the performance of the other team matters too as in are they hot or cold when you face them.

So many factors that when it comes to analyzing the performance, you’re better off looking at the big picture down and using backing evidence to support your analysis.

Yes, teams get hot and cold. They also face easy and hard competition. They also are simply victims to the nature of the game.

How did batting order specifically become the deciding factor to you?

 

[82CardsGrad]

Like I said, I'm just guessing. To me, its a head scratcher when it comes to a talent issue. Goldy had probably his best month in his career in August(was that the month he turned into superman?) and the month before and after that, he stinks. That can't be because he sucks at what he does, can it? Is it mental, physical, or mechanics? Same goes for several other players. They can't all be hot then cold at the same time unless something is messing with their heads?

Shaggy, with loads of respect buddy, I ask - how long have you been following baseball?? I ask because you appear unaware of how the game ebbs and flows over the course of a season. Players and teams often go through ups and downs, hot streaks and cold streaks. It is extremely rare when a player is able to plow through an entire season producing at a consistently high level. It hardly ever happens and when it does, that person is usually putting up epic, if not historic numbers... Same with teams. There hasn't been one team this season that hasn't gone through one, if not multiple periods of strife, even the Red Sox.
The difference with the Dbacks is that, because of our lack of talent and quality depth, the team doesn't have the ability to keep the downturns to a minimum, while extending the high-quality play. I don't believe this team won more than 4 or 5 games in a row more than once or maybe twice ALL SEASON! And yet, they remained in first place through August, which highlights the incredible job done by Hazen and Torey who patched together a few top-tier players like Goldy, Perralta, Corbin, and Grienke with a bunch more who are much less talented, and somehow kept the losing streaks to a far less degree than the overall talent level of this team would suggest those streaks should've been.

Look, strategy and managerial leadership are of course important... BUT, they matter little if there isn't the talent in place to actually execute on the field. It's just that simple...

 

[BC867]

As an example, a .300 hitter doesn’t get a hit exactly every 3 or so AB, he goes 4-4 in some games and 0-4 in others and it settles out to 3 our of 10 ...

... How did batting order specifically become the deciding factor to you?

I agree with your first point. But, averages are misleading. Especially team stats. It does not take inconsistency or unbalance into account. If a hitter is hot and cold, there are others to pick him up. But if a team is hot and cold, well, check the following example.

If the D-backs in a 4-game series score 8, 2, 2 and 2, they'll average 3.5 per game for the series. And if the opposition scores 0, 4, 4 and 4, they'll average only 3.0 per game. But the opposition will win 3 out of the 4 games. Which, in actuality, has been happening to the D-backs.

Unfortunately, your theory is not just hypothetical. D-backs hitters have been horribly underperforming by not scoring after the 4th inning in most games. That is a fact. Winning games is about clutch hitting. It is not just about batting orders. It is about lineups. Such as hardly ever playing our best hitters together in a game.

Lovullo announced this month that he would discontinue his policy of constantly benching starters. And two days later, he went right back to it. It goes beyond a platoon system. His short attention span, or lack of confidence in his decisions, is killing the team.

We've had a good starting rotation, even with injuries. We had a good bullpen and superior closing staff. And we have a solid lineup of line drive hitters when they are not trying to hit every pitch indiscriminately out of the park. If we had a Manager with a track record of success in National League baseball, that would tend to produce good results consistently.

DWKB, if there were not a problem, we wouldn't be talking about it. No rationalization can change that. Colorado has taken advantage of the disappointing performances of the Dodgers and Giants. The D-backs have not. Even though it is there for the taking.

Tory Lovullo has enticed us, then pulled out the rug with his stubbornness and lying to the Press (and fans). As a D-backs fan, I don't like it! I think he is failing right before our eyes.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I agree with your first point. But, averages are misleading. Especially team stats. It does not take inconsistency or unbalance into account. If a hitter is hot and cold, there are others to pick him up. But if a team is hot and cold, well, check the following example.

If the D-backs in a 4-game series score 8, 2, 2 and 2, they'll average 3.5 per game for the series. And if the opposition scores 0, 4, 4 and 4, they'll average only 3.0 per game. But the opposition will win 3 out of the 4 games. Which, in actuality, has been happening to the D-backs.

Unfortunately, your theory is not just hypothetical. D-backs hitters have been horribly underperforming by not scoring after the 4th inning in most games. That is a fact. Winning games is about clutch hitting. It is not just about batting orders. It is about lineups. Such as hardly ever playing our best hitters together in a game.

Lovullo announced this month that he would discontinue his policy of constantly benching starters. And two days later, he went right back to it. It goes beyond a platoon system. His short attention span, or lack of confidence in his decisions, is killing the team.

We've had a good starting rotation, even with injuries. We had a good bullpen and superior closing staff. And we have a solid lineup of line drive hitters when they are not trying to hit every pitch indiscriminately out of the park. If we had a Manager with a track record of success in National League baseball, that would tend to produce good results consistently.

DWKB, if there were not a problem, we wouldn't be talking about it. No rationalization can change that. Colorado has taken advantage of the disappointing performances of the Dodgers and Giants. The D-backs have not. Even though it is there for the taking.

Tory Lovullo has enticed us, then pulled out the rug with his stubbornness and lying to the Press (and fans). As a D-backs fan, I don't like it! I think he is failing right before our eyes.

Man, you have such a warped perspective... sorry, you just do. Quick question: Who has a more talented line-up, the Rockies or the Dbacks?

 

[AZ Native]

SD up 3-1 in the 7th.

 

[Ronin]

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