2019 Free Agency

[Rab]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiret...99-Percent-Certain-Of-Re-Signing-With-Raptors

I think he is breaking this. Kawhi signing with the Raptors makes so much sense for Kawhi both from a financial and career perspective.

Its great for the league too.

Jalen has predicted a lot of things over the course of the year including KD and Kyrie to either Nets or Knicks, and he was all over the AD requesting a trade to LA in early October when the season was getting ready to start. Not gonna say it’s a lock that he’s right on this but he’s done enough to earn my ear on this rumor.


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[Covert Rain]

man.. to think that 2004-7 title run could have had Iggy on the team also. Damn. He would have given us the SF/SG who could have given Manu fits.

When I think about a couple of the hot rumors that never turned out there are a few moments in Suns history. I remember when there was a rumor the Suns were trying to get the Worm via a Dumas trade (I think).

Could you imagine that team? Between Barkley and Dennis would there have been a rebound left for anybody else? That's also assuming Rodman didn't implode.

 

[Yuma]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[95pro]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Is that a legit tweet?

 

[Rab]

I just looked. It is. Lol


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[SirStefan32]

That's a Gambo joke from the Morris days. He got into it with one of the Morris twins and said he'd personally drive them to the airport.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah, I think you missed my point. He is a good facilitator. Your definition of great is nebulous at best. Can you show me an instance where someone who passes the ball that much didn't have offensive minded guys that benefited? To say he doesn't fit is ridiculous. I get the argument about his defense but that ship sailed with Saric anyway. Where Dlo struggles defensively some on this forum have pointed out Rubio struggles offensively. It's not like Rubio has checks across the board. I think we are trading one weakness for another.

Both of which are needs for this team (taking scoring pressure off of Booker and adding someone who gets other involved).

I am not arguing either is perfect only that the idea that either of them can't fit is a stretch.

Never said he can't fit or is even a bad fit. I just suggested that he doesn't fit very well.

"Poor defense, high usage and not a great facilitator. That just doesn't seem like a good fit in just about any way with Booker and Ayton."

There is my quote. His defense hurts his fit with those guys because they also struggle on defense, his high usage doesn't fit well because those guys need the ball in their hands and they are more efficient so you want them using more possessions. Lastly he is not a great facilitator, he is solid, but not great. If he was a great facilitator I would be able to maybe overlook his other flaws, but with the way things are I don't like the fit all that much.

Rubio I believe is a better passer and far better defender and thus he checks two boxes. If Russell was a better defender or a more efficient scorer I would like him more than Rubio for this team (still don't love the high usage next to the other 2, but I could be okay with it if the efficiency was better). Granted I also think Rubio brings some intangibles from a leadership and experience standpoint that Russell doesn't.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Never said he can't fit or is even a bad fit. I just suggested that he doesn't fit very well.

"Poor defense, high usage and not a great facilitator. That just doesn't seem like a good fit in just about any way with Booker and Ayton."

There is my quote. His defense hurts his fit with those guys because they also struggle on defense, his high usage doesn't fit well because those guys need the ball in their hands and they are more efficient so you want them using more possessions. Lastly he is not a great facilitator, he is solid, but not great. If he was a great facilitator I would be able to maybe overlook his other flaws, but with the way things are I don't like the fit all that much.

Rubio I believe is a better passer and far better defender and thus he checks two boxes. If Russell was a better defender or a more efficient scorer I would like him more than Rubio for this team (still don't love the high usage next to the other 2, but I could be okay with it if the efficiency was better). Granted I also think Rubio brings some intangibles from a leadership and experience standpoint that Russell doesn't.

Russell just led his team, the Nets who have been awful forever, to the playoffs for the first time in forever. Rubio never led any Minnesota teams anywhere and the playoff team he just played for dumped his ass. Arguing leadership for one over the other considering that seems a little dubious to me. Russell had issues when he was young, but it takes some kind of leadership to take a team from years of atrocity and getting them into the playoffs.

And before you say Russell's team just dumped him also, please remember they did so to get KD and Kyrie. Rubio got dumped for an oft-injured Conley, who's got a massive contract.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Russell just led his team, the Nets who have been awful forever, to the playoffs for the first time in forever. Rubio never led any Minnesota teams anywhere and the playoff team he just played for dumped his ass. Arguing leadership for one over the other considering that seems a little dubious to me. Russell had issues when he was young, but it takes some kind of leadership to take a team from years of atrocity and getting them into the playoffs.

And before you say Russell's team just dumped him also, please remember they did so to get KD and Kyrie. Rubio got dumped for an oft-injured Conley, who's got a massive contract.

He was probably the best player on an eastern conference team with some solid depth to 42-40. Let's not act like he was pulling a Westbrook or something and was carrying them night in night out. He is a good young player, but he was by no means the leader of that team. Rubio has been a leader and a mentor on a 50 win Utah team for the last two years. I definitely put a lot more stock in that than what Russell did last year.

 

[Covert Rain]

Russell just led his team, the Nets who have been awful forever, to the playoffs for the first time in forever. Rubio never led any Minnesota teams anywhere and the playoff team he just played for dumped his ass. Arguing leadership for one over the other considering that seems a little dubious to me. Russell had issues when he was young, but it takes some kind of leadership to take a team from years of atrocity and getting them into the playoffs.

And before you say Russell's team just dumped him also, please remember they did so to get KD and Kyrie. Rubio got dumped for an oft-injured Conley, who's got a massive contract.

Not to mention that Russell is still very young at 23. Still growing into his game and I bet he gets better. Rubio is 28 and pretty set in his ways. He isn't going to change his game at this point.

Guy that you can grow with the core, dynamic scorer, good facilitator who will setup other guys, led his team to playoffs....I mean....come one. No question for me who I would rather have. I am not saying that DLo doesn't have his own issues like defense.

Golden State isn't questioning his facilitation skills. Golden State doesn't appear to be worried about enough balls going around for all of their shooters.

I am satisfied with Rubio but I think passing on DLo was a mistake IMO.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Not to mention that Russell is still very young at 23. Still growing into his game and I bet he gets better. Rubio is 28 and pretty set in his ways. He isn't going to change his game at this point.

Guy that you can grow with the core, dynamic scorer, good facilitator who will setup other guys, led his team to playoffs....I mean....come one. No question for me who I would rather have. I am not saying that DLo doesn't have his own issues like defense.

Golden State isn't questioning his facilitation skills. Golden State doesn't appear to be worried about enough balls going around for all of their shooters.

I am satisfied with Rubio but I think passing on DLo was a mistake IMO.

This is one of the big reasons why they wanted Rubio though. They plan very much to build everything around Booker and Ayton and thus they don't need more youth that needs time to grow into the player they can become. They want to start winning now and adding a veteran on a significantly cheaper salary helps them with that.

 

[Covert Rain]

This is one of the big reasons why they wanted Rubio though. They plan very much to build everything around Booker and Ayton and thus they don't need more youth that needs time to grow into the player they can become. They want to start winning now and adding a veteran on a significantly cheaper salary helps them with that.

I don't think Rubio was their first choice and even if he was he is a stop gap. Mark it down. The Suns will either draft or trade for another PG in the near future. I think DLo's salary was the biggest deterrent. All of the other garbage was just noise. Having a Core of DLo, Ayton and Booker would be solid for years to come.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He was probably the best player on an eastern conference team with some solid depth to 42-40. Let's not act like he was pulling a Westbrook or something and was carrying them night in night out.

here we go... putting words in my mouth. I never said he was pulling a Westbrook. But again, that team had been awful for years, still wasn't all that talented and Russell's play and growth was the catalyst for their turnaround giving the Sixers a solid fight in the first round.

You have to have SOME leadership abilities to do that with a team that's been that awful forever.

He is a good young player, but he was by no means the leader of that team.

By all means, tell me who was the leader of that team if not the All-Star who averaged 21/7/4? Top points scorer, best distributor and the engine that got the entire team going.

Rubio has been a leader and a mentor on a 50 win Utah team for the last two years. I definitely put a lot more stock in that than what Russell did last year.

But Rubio was a leader of his?! So, they just got rid of one of the leaders of their team? No, the leader of that team was Mitchell.

And I'm not saying Russell was an amazing leader, but before Rubio got to play with Mitchell, THE undisputed leader of that team, Rubio didn't lead anyone anywhere but the bottom of the Western standings. Did he help with Utah? Sure. I'll even grant you he had a leadership role there... but to say being a secondary leader of the team for two years somehow immediately vaults him over a young guy who finally got it and led his team as the number one option out of the doldrums feels like a specious argument.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is one of the big reasons why they wanted Rubio though. They plan very much to build everything around Booker and Ayton and thus they don't need more youth that needs time to grow into the player they can become. They want to start winning now and adding a veteran on a significantly cheaper salary helps them with that.

right... which is why I think the move was completely shortsighted. I think they're looking completely short-term... maybe we can 30 games next year. my fear is that we end up mired in 30-45 wins for a long time because this core is STILL one dynamic player away from being able to play with the big big boys of the league.

 

[JCSunsfan]

right... which is why I think the move was completely shortsighted. I think they're looking completely short-term... maybe we can 30 games next year. my fear is that we end up mired in 30-45 wins for a long time because this core is STILL one dynamic player away from being able to play with the big big boys of the league.

But how is developing Booker and Ayton short term? Rubio is fairly young too. He should be able to play at peak level for another 5 years at least. That is exactly Booker's window.

 

[Covert Rain]

Is that a legit tweet?

 

[Cheesebeef]

But how is developing Booker and Ayton short term? Rubio is fairly young too. He should be able to play at peak level for another 5 years at least. That is exactly Booker's window.

Rubio wasn't the only PG on the face of the earth who could help develop Booker and Ayton.

And what exactly is... "peak" Rubio. it's an average PG. We settled for that... and overpaid.

Like I said when we signed Rubio... I basically look at the team now as on training wheels. They'll make a little jump this year, probably another little jump next and then cap out at 40-45 wins and by that time major contracts will kick in, they'll have likely played themselves out of the position to get much better with a lotto pick in the draft and then end up in Minnesota-ville.

You can say a team needs to walk before they can run, but I fear they've set us up to walk in perpetuity with a lot of the moves made this summer.

 

[Superbone]

Markieff Morris to Pistons.


Shams Charania‏Verified account @ShamsCharania

Free agent Markieff Morris has agreed to a deal with the Detroit Pistons, league sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.


11:31 AM - 3 Jul 2019

Are they sure they got the right Morris brother?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

But how is developing Booker and Ayton short term? Rubio is fairly young too. He should be able to play at peak level for another 5 years at least. That is exactly Booker's window.

This is what is being overlooked here. The team is focusing on developing what they believe to be two future superstars. If they develop into that good of players than they will be a very successful team.

 

[Covert Rain]

right... which is why I think the move was completely shortsighted. I think they're looking completely short-term... maybe we can 30 games next year. my fear is that we end up mired in 30-45 wins for a long time because this core is STILL one dynamic player away from being able to play with the big big boys of the league.

Exactly. This is an attempt by the organization to move into the middle of the pack by throwing a bunch of noodles on the wall and hoping enough sticks to get out of the gutter. If the idea is to keep a young core together I can think of no better way then to put 3 young guys who put up good numbers and EVERY SINGLE ONE of them is probably going to get better.

This is a no brainer. Very few teams have the opportunity to put 3 young CORE guys on the same team. The Suns completely whiffed here for short term gain.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Exactly. This is an attempt by the organization to move into the middle of the pack by throwing a bunch of noodles on the wall and hoping enough sticks to get out of the gutter. If the idea is to keep a young core together I can think of no better way then to put 3 young guys who put up good numbers and EVERY SINGLE one of them is probably going to get better.

This is a no brainer.

While we are sitting here arguing about this do we know that the Suns didn't even entertain the idea of Russell? I mean I don't see him passing on a max deal from the Warriors for the Suns even if he is friends with Booker. The rumors for him going to the Warriors started coming out hours before free agency started from what I remember so it is quite possible that the Suns put out feelers only to find out he was meeting with the Warriors.

Also I see this as an attempt from the team to surround their young core pieces with veteran role players that have all played roles recently for playoff teams. The intent of this is to win a lot more games by having a lot more players that know how to contribute to winning in the NBA and also having these core guys learning in the environment that it creates.

Look through the history of the league and most teams win it all with two stars and a bunch of players that compliment the strengths of the stars. The Suns believe they have their two stars in Booker and Ayton so they are doing what they believe will be the best way to start building a culture of winning and thus an environment conducive to learning in the process. They also see Oubre and Bridges as core pieces as well moving forward. That is 2 star players and two other core pieces that maybe develop into all star caliber players in the right environment. That environment is best built by surrounding those guys with as much veteran depth and character guys as possible. As well as good coaching.

 

[Proximo]

It feels to me like Jones is just content to get the team to the playoffs not contend.

While I think Ayton and Booker will be all stars - I feel like you need at least 3 to contend.

If the plan is to get rid of all of our upcomming draft picks to improve the supporting cast I don't think we can get to legit contention, we need 1 more young star.

 

[Covert Rain]

While we are sitting here arguing about this do we know that the Suns didn't even entertain the idea of Russell? I mean I don't see him passing on a max deal from the Warriors for the Suns even if he is friends with Booker. The rumors for him going to the Warriors started coming out hours before free agency started from what I remember so it is quite possible that the Suns put out feelers only to find out he was meeting with the Warriors.

Also I see this as an attempt from the team to surround their young core pieces with veteran role players that have all played roles recently for playoff teams. The intent of this is to win a lot more games by having a lot more players that know how to contribute to winning in the NBA and also having these core guys learning in the environment that it creates.

Look through the history of the league and most teams win it all with two stars and a bunch of players that compliment the strengths of the stars. The Suns believe they have their two stars in Booker and Ayton so they are doing what they believe will be the best way to start building a culture of winning and thus an environment conducive to learning in the process. They also see Oubre and Bridges as core pieces as well moving forward. That is 2 star players and two other core pieces that maybe develop into all star caliber players in the right environment. That environment is best built by surrounding those guys with as much veteran depth and character guys as possible. As well as good coaching.

I am sure the Suns considered it until they realized how much it was going to cost them. I think that was the main driver. The rest is PR B.S. we see everyday to give people a reason to move on. So what? How does that change the point being made? We were not debating that topic at all. Only that the Suns missed out on an opportunity to put a young core together that could have been here for a very long time to come. Putting a CORE of three young guys that no only would grow together but you could argue all three have not reached their peaks yet.

Honestly, the thought of those 3 players being on the same team that has not peaked is a scary thought IMO.

I have not heard one person say DLO has peaked.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I am sure the Suns considered it until they realized how much it was going to cost them. I thins that was the main driver? So what? How does that change the point being made? We were not debating that topic at all. Only that the Suns missed out on an opportunity to put a young core together that could have been here for a very long time to come. Putting a CORE of three young guys that no only would grow together but you could argue all three have not reached their peaks yet.

Honestly, the though of those 3 players being on the same team that has not peaked is a scary thought IMO.

You are saying they missed out on an opportunity. How do you know they even had an opportunity to get him? The Warriors are calling you and saying they will give you the max are you turning that down? I highly doubt there was ever even an opportunity for the Suns to get Russell.

 

[Covert Rain]

You are saying they missed out on an opportunity. How do you know they even had an opportunity to get him? The Warriors are calling you and saying they will give you the max are you turning that down? I highly doubt there was ever even an opportunity for the Suns to get Russell.

How do we know Booker will get better? How do we know Ayton will get better? Those are always questions. Not sure how that changes anything. Also, how do we know as soon as his camp expressed interested and the Suns had jumped that GS would have had a chance to be in the picture at all?

I am sure we could hypothetically question everything all day.

I ask again. How scary would this team be if Ayton, Booker and DLo all peaked and played together at the same time?