2019 Free Agency

CardsSunsDbacks

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How do we know Booker will get better? How do we know Ayton will get better? Those are always questions. Not sure how that changes anything. Also, how do we know as soon as his camp expressed interested and the Suns had jumped that GS wouldn't have had a chance to be in the picture at all?

I am sure we could hypothetically question everything all day.

I ask again, how scary would this team be if Ayton, Booker and DLo all peaked and played together?
They are investing in them by building completely around those guys. Sure it's a gamble if they don't end up good enough, but if they don't we are screwed anyways. They are going in a direction that they think will give those guys the best opportunity to maximize their success and growth. They were going no where fast with their philosophy of stocking up young players and hoping they all grow into something together. So they cleaned house of all the young guys but the ones they believe they can build around. Now everything they add around them will be veterans that compliment what those guys do best.
 

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How do we know Booker will get better? How do we know Ayton will get better? Those are always questions. Not sure how that changes anything. Also, how do we know as soon as his camp expressed interested and the Suns had jumped that GS would have had a chance to be in the picture at all?

I am sure we could hypothetically question everything all day.

I ask again. How scary would this team be if Ayton, Booker and DLo all peaked and played together at the same time?

They would probably be similar to Portland if they had a big 3 of Ayton, Booker, and D'Lo. What is Portland's ceiling? 2nd round of the playoffs and getting rushed when they face a legit team in the playoffs. I know Portland made the Western Conference Finals this year but that was a matter of favorable seeding and luck.

Do you think they'd be considerably better than Portland?
 

Covert Rain

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They are investing in them by building completely around those guys. Sure it's a gamble if they don't end up good enough, but if they don't we are screwed anyways. They are going in a direction that they think will give those guys the best opportunity to maximize their success and growth. They were going no where fast with their philosophy of stocking up young players and hoping they all grow into something together. So they cleaned house of all the young guys but the ones they believe they can build around. Now everything they add around them will be veterans that compliment what those guys do best.

I agree and DLo would have been a bigger investment in our core and he was no ordinary young player without a track record to go by. That's not the same thing has drafting unproven rookies. Big difference. I have a feeling the Suns were going to sell off other assets regardless and get a bunch of vets in here.

You didn't answer my question.


They would probably be similar to Portland if they had a big 3 of Ayton, Booker, and D'Lo. What is Portland's ceiling? 2nd round of the playoffs and getting rushed when they face a legit team in the playoffs. I know Portland made the Western Conference Finals this year but that was a matter of favorable seeding and luck.

Do you think they'd be considerably better than Portland?

That depends on what you think Booker, Ayton and DLo's ceilings are. Do I think they could be better or just as good? The optimist in me says yes. How many teams have a starting 3 that puts up similar numbers? I don't know off the top of my head but I bet those 3 would be highly competitive for years to come.
 
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Cheesebeef

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While we are sitting here arguing about this do we know that the Suns didn't even entertain the idea of Russell? I mean I don't see him passing on a max deal from the Warriors for the Suns even if he is friends with Booker. The rumors for him going to the Warriors started coming out hours before free agency started from what I remember so it is quite possible that the Suns put out feelers only to find out he was meeting with the Warriors.

Also I see this as an attempt from the team to surround their young core pieces with veteran role players that have all played roles recently for playoff teams. The intent of this is to win a lot more games by having a lot more players that know how to contribute to winning in the NBA and also having these core guys learning in the environment that it creates.

Look through the history of the league and most teams win it all with two stars and a bunch of players that compliment the strengths of the stars.

No. The overwhelming majority of teams that won it all had two things in common. 3 All-Stars or 2 of the Best Players of All Time.

The Warriors had 4 stars and 3 stars and at least 3 of them are going to be HOFers.

The Cavs had LeBron, Kyrie and Love - that was the best player of all time, another All-Star and likely HOFer with Kyrie and another all-star with Love.

The Spurs had Duncan, Kawhi, Tony Parker and Manu - that's one of the best players ever, another ascending generational player and two All-Stars.

The Heat had LeBron, again, the best player in the game, Wade, a consistent all-star and HOFer and Bosh, a consistent HOFer.

The Mavs are one of the exceptions to the rule.

The Lakers had Kobe, as arguably the best player in the game, with Pau, a HOFer, Bynum an All-Star during their run. And again, guys who made big differences on both ends of the court.

The Celtics had KG, Pierce, Allen. Three HOFers.

Back to the Spurs who had Duncan, the best player in the game with Parker another ALL-Star and likely HOFer and Manu, another likely HOFer.

The Pistons are the second exception to the rule.

The Heat were a fluke.

Back to the Lakers and Spurs again. Again, both of which had either THE best player in the game, who could dominate on both ends of the court and a lot of help.

This team isn't set up to do that with 2 stars... neither of which are complete players on both sides of the court. Kobe and Shaq could do it because they were pretty much either the first, second or third best player in the league and in the top 10-15 ALL TIME. They also pulled it off because they both could dominate offensively and defensively. Booker and Ayton have potential, but not that kind of potential.

But even so, you're looking at the last 19 years of NBA champions... 3 fit your criteria of winning a title with Two stars. That's just not how it is in today's league. That's the way it happened with the Rockets, Bulls, Suns, Blazers, Jazz back in the day. But you're talking about a different league 20 years ago. And even those title winning teams with the Bulls and Rockets during that period had Jordan and Pippen - the greatest player of all time and one of the best 2nd bananas EVER and BOTH controlled the game at both ends. Same with Hakeem.

Neither of our stars are even complete players and I don't see that changing. Ayton WILL get better, but lacking a nasty streak, I don't think he ever gets near Hakeem or Shaq level and as great as Booker is offensively, his ceiling is merely okay on D. Thus the reason this team needs one more major piece... an all-star... to ever really contend on a regular basis moving forward.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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I agree and DLo would have been a bigger investment and he was no ordinary young player without a track record to go by. That's not the same thing has drafting unproven rookies. Big difference. I have a feeling the Suns were going to sell off other assets regardless and get a bunch of vets in here.

You didn't answer my question.
Offensively they could potentially be scary in a good. Defensively they would likely be scary in a bad way. You cant have 2 poor to below average defenders as your starting guard tandem.
 

Covert Rain

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Offensively they could potentially be scary in a good. Defensively they would likely be scary in a bad way. You cant have 2 poor to below average defenders as your starting guard tandem.

You are saying they couldn't fill the gaps at the other positions? Also, are you assuming that Dlo won't get any better? I doubt that. I think all three have room to improve and will. You get solid defensive veterans at PF/SF? I am sure they would be just fine. Especially if you had a solid bench.
 

Mainstreet

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It feels to me like Jones is just content to get the team to the playoffs not contend.

While I think Ayton and Booker will be all stars - I feel like you need at least 3 to contend.

If the plan is to get rid of all of our upcomming draft picks to improve the supporting cast I don't think we can get to legit contention, we need 1 more young star.

Are you not high on Oubre?
 

Covert Rain

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Neither of our stars are even complete players and I don't see that changing. Ayton WILL get better, but lacking a nasty streak, I don't think he ever gets near Hakeem or Shaq level and as great as Booker is offensively, his ceiling is merely okay on D. Thus the reason this team needs one more major piece... an all-star... to ever really contend on a regular basis moving forward.

This is probably a more grounded take. I don't think anybody looks at Ayton right now and says Super Star. Same with Booker. I think people see solid all-stars for years to come. That CORE won't be enough.

I hope Ayton and Booker take another huge leap. I really do. I think it's possible. It certainly would open up the options for the level of players we would need to bring in here to get it done. You wouldn't have to aim as high so to speak.
 

1Sun

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This is probably a more grounded take. I don't think anybody looks at Ayton right now and says Super Star. Same with Booker. I think people see solid all-stars for years to come. That CORE won't be enough.

I hope Ayton and Booker take another huge leap. I really do. I think it's possible. It certainly would open up the options for the level of players we would need to bring in here to get it done. You wouldn't have to aim as high so to speak.

Or if they do, then they could attract a third star then...assuming we have the cap room to acquire him. I am starting to understand the overall plan, though I remain disturbed by the clumsy if not outright poor execution of it and the questionable selection of players to implement it.
 

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A solid backup point guard signing by the 76ers in Raul Neto.


Shams Charania‏Verified account @ShamsCharania

Free agent guard Raul Neto is signing a one-year, guaranteed veteran's minimum deal with the Philadelphia 76ers, league sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.

5:32 PM - 3 Jul 2019

I'm surprised to see that. Apparently Neto is really good friends with Gobert, and he viewed about as untouchable as a backup could be because of that friendship. Of course they'd trade him for legit talent but a team would have needed to overpaid for him if Utah was going to take the inquiry seriously.

I like Neto as a young player and I think he'll do well in Philly. I'm not sure if the light will ever come on but he was someone I read up on last season in an attempt to find a PG the Suns could add.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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They got the one the Suns drafted. o_O

A lot of people think Marcus is the better player.
Interestingly enough, when they were coming out I thought Marcus was better. I was pretty shocked when we drafted Markieff bc I thought he was worse. Then for a bit Markieff was definitely the better of the two, but he reached his ceiling quickly while Marcus continued to improve. I believe Marcus the superior player now. All that said, they are nothing great, just nice parts.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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They would probably be similar to Portland if they had a big 3 of Ayton, Booker, and D'Lo. What is Portland's ceiling? 2nd round of the playoffs and getting rushed when they face a legit team in the playoffs. I know Portland made the Western Conference Finals this year but that was a matter of favorable seeding and luck.

Do you think they'd be considerably better than Portland?
If all three book dlo and Ayton reached or came near their peak? Absolutely better than Portland. Without a doubt. Driven by Ayton.
 

Mainstreet

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Interestingly enough, when they were coming out I thought Marcus was better. I was pretty shocked when we drafted Markieff bc I thought he was worse. Then for a bit Markieff was definitely the better of the two, but he reached his ceiling quickly while Marcus continued to improve. I believe Marcus the superior player now. All that said, they are nothing great, just nice parts.

Yeah. The Suns had both and couldn't get it to work.
 

Cheesebeef

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They would probably be similar to Portland if they had a big 3 of Ayton, Booker, and D'Lo.

How so? With Booker/DLo you have a Lilliard/CJ comp... but they have no one who comes even close to approaching Ayton and his possible ceiling.

So, how would they be similar. With us, we'd have a comp to Lillard/CJ PLUS Ayton, who everyone here is really high on. I mean, Ayton seems to be the big missing type player that is EXACTLY what Portland needs to create a big 3, no?

What is Portland's ceiling? 2nd round of the playoffs and getting rushed when they face a legit team in the playoffs. I know Portland made the Western Conference Finals this year but that was a matter of favorable seeding and luck.

Do you think they'd be considerably better than Portland?

Yes, because again, they would have that missing piece (Ayton) that Portland doesn't have.
 

Mainstreet

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I think at the time the suns also maybe overvalued them. Having them hang out with Sarver socially likely didn’t help monitor their egos.

May well be.

They could have helped the Suns if their egos didn't get in the way but they were not pieces to build around.
 

Cheesebeef

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This is probably a more grounded take. I don't think anybody looks at Ayton right now and says Super Star. Same with Booker. I think people see solid all-stars for years to come. That CORE won't be enough.

I hope Ayton and Booker take another huge leap. I really do. I think it's possible. It certainly would open up the options for the level of players we would need to bring in here to get it done. You wouldn't have to aim as high so to speak.

right. You can get away with having only 2 Stars to be a consistent title contender if those two guys are generational talents. I don't think we have those in Book/Ayton. They're stars, possible superstars in the making. But I just don't see them being guys who eventually end up both in the top 5 in the league... and not just at their positions, but in the league total.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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How so? With Booker/DLo you have a Lilliard/CJ comp... but they have no one who comes even close to approaching Ayton and his possible ceiling.

So, how would they be similar. With us, we'd have a comp to Lillard/CJ PLUS Ayton, who everyone here is really high on. I mean, Ayton seems to be the big missing type player that is EXACTLY what Portland needs to create a big 3, no?



Yes, because again, they would have that missing piece (Ayton) that Portland doesn't have.
Yeah I’m pretty confident portland would salivate at the thought of adding Ayton to cj/dame. And yeah I think they’d have a legit shot at a championship.
 

Mainstreet

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Nothing is imminent with Kawhi. It could even take days.


Jabari Young‏Verified account @JabariJYoung

On the Kawhi front, told he’s not making a decision tonight and it may not be until the next few days. He and his reps are going through the process and taking their time before deciding the next move. No 2-year deals have been discussed. #NBA @TheAthleticNBA

7:12 PM - 3 Jul 2019
 

Krangodnzr

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While we are sitting here arguing about this do we know that the Suns didn't even entertain the idea of Russell? I mean I don't see him passing on a max deal from the Warriors for the Suns even if he is friends with Booker. The rumors for him going to the Warriors started coming out hours before free agency started from what I remember so it is quite possible that the Suns put out feelers only to find out he was meeting with the Warriors.

Also I see this as an attempt from the team to surround their young core pieces with veteran role players that have all played roles recently for playoff teams. The intent of this is to win a lot more games by having a lot more players that know how to contribute to winning in the NBA and also having these core guys learning in the environment that it creates.

Look through the history of the league and most teams win it all with two stars and a bunch of players that compliment the strengths of the stars. The Suns believe they have their two stars in Booker and Ayton so they are doing what they believe will be the best way to start building a culture of winning and thus an environment conducive to learning in the process. They also see Oubre and Bridges as core pieces as well moving forward. That is 2 star players and two other core pieces that maybe develop into all star caliber players in the right environment. That environment is best built by surrounding those guys with as much veteran depth and character guys as possible. As well as good coaching.

Yep. Was thinking the same thing. No one knows if Russell even wanted to come here.

The third all star can come later. The arguments on here are absurd. Is paying Rubio $17 million an overpay??? Maybe, but not by much.

Even if you add Russell, this team would still be short 3-4 good players.
 

Covert Rain

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Even if you add Russell, this team would still be short 3-4 good players.

What is absurd is thinking adding 3 to 4 good players to your Core of 3 is less difficult than getting your 3rd Core player to begin with. It's much easier to find complimentary players to your CORE than finding your CORE to begin with. If that wasn't the case every team would have their 3 CORE Players no problem.

Those opportunities are rare. So if the opportunity presents itself it's worth the risk.

If the Suns took the risk and it didn't work, I wouldn't blame them one bit. If they play it safe, we lose Ayton or Booker eventually and another opportunity never arises I am going to look back at this off season and say they had an opportunity and passed.
 
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Rab

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Nothing is imminent with Kawhi. It could even take days.


Jabari Young‏Verified account @JabariJYoung

On the Kawhi front, told he’s not making a decision tonight and it may not be until the next few days. He and his reps are going through the process and taking their time before deciding the next move. No 2-year deals have been discussed. #NBA @TheAthleticNBA

7:12 PM - 3 Jul 2019
I don’t know why but I feel like it’s coming tomorrow


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