2020 Draft

[Russ Smith]

Ball is a high boom or bust pick, I wouldnt risk picking him unless it was after ten , he plays no defense and is a horrible shooter, he's like lonzo without the defense. Wiseman on the other hand actually looked good in the short time he played , he could use a little more size but already has an NBA body and he is very good on the defensive end. His offense isn't as refined as his defense but he still looked good and although he didn't take any in college he can shoot 3s. Id be very surprised if (baring injury) he wasn't in the NBA for a full career

I've heard his defense has improved overseas but yeah Lonzo at least played one year of college ball where it became apparent he was going to need to work on his defense. Melo has basically been playing globetrotter level defense until he got overseas.

The one thing Melo has that Lonzo doesn't is a good floater, he had it as an 8th grader and still has it now, but he still shoots with 2 hands, weird side spin and he's going to have to be taught to defend from the ground up.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yes he has but his talent isn't the issue and I don't really put much stock in a player leaving to prepare for the draft early, plus ncaa was already screwing him over why should he stay ? Now if he shows up in predraft workouts and he's out of shape from doing nothing during his leave then there should be some cause for concern

Argh by all means he has the right to leave early to train. The screw him over comment is what I don't like, the kid and his family were PAID by his AAU coach to move so he could play for same said coach in HS. He then followed same said coach to college when Memphis hired Penny as their coach. How can anybody say the NCAA screwed him? He broke the rules, he knew he broke the rules, his coach knew he broke the rules but they lied to the NCAA about it repeatedly. When the NCAA finally got enough information to determine what his actual status should be, ineligible, the Wiseman camp screamed that's not fair you already said we were eligible, yes because you didn't disclose the actual details of the money changing hands.

Think the rule should be changed, fine, but don't complain when you knowingly break the rule and eventually get ruled ineligible. He should have just taken the suspension, agreed to pay the fine and sat 9 games but instead he refused to accept it, played while ineligible, and got a longer suspension and bailed.

 

[SunnyBaller]

Argh by all means he has the right to leave early to train. The screw him over comment is what I don't like, the kid and his family were PAID by his AAU coach to move so he could play for same said coach in HS. He then followed same said coach to college when Memphis hired Penny as their coach. How can anybody say the NCAA screwed him? He broke the rules, he knew he broke the rules, his coach knew he broke the rules but they lied to the NCAA about it repeatedly. When the NCAA finally got enough information to determine what his actual status should be, ineligible, the Wiseman camp screamed that's not fair you already said we were eligible, yes because you didn't disclose the actual details of the money changing hands.

Think the rule should be changed, fine, but don't complain when you knowingly break the rule and eventually get ruled ineligible. He should have just taken the suspension, agreed to pay the fine and sat 9 games but instead he refused to accept it, played while ineligible, and got a longer suspension and bailed.

That's fair , there are rules , no matter how stupid they are. Screw him over wasn't the right phrase. I don't like to debate the whole college athletes don't get paid debate/ they get scholarships thing, I do have a major problem with the NCAA s rules are doing. I love watching college basketball but its going down high for awhile now, Zion gave it some life last year but more and more players are going to go the over seas route and once players are allowed in from high school as well NCAA is really going to sink. I don't care if players want to bail on it because that's what I'd do. I would have left Memphis too if I was Wiseman

 

[Phrazbit]

Wiseman was almost at the end of his suspension when he decided to quit. If he left when initially being ruled ineligible it would have made a bit more sense, but I don't see why he sticks around until he is on the brink of being allowed to play again, then bails.

Regardless, I am rather certain that, no matter where our pick lands, Wiseman won't be on our board. Pairing him and Ayton makes no sense, if he blows people away in workouts and we end up with a chance to pick him we should trade back.

 

[SunnyBaller]

Thon makers cousin Makur is now eligible for the draft

 

[AzStevenCal]

... I do have a major problem with the NCAA s rules are doing. I love watching college basketball but its going down high for awhile now, Zion gave it some life last year but more and more players are going to go the over seas route and once players are allowed in from high school as well NCAA is really going to sink. I don't care if players want to bail on it because that's what I'd do. I would have left Memphis too if I was Wiseman

I've heard this for years and I just don't see it as a huge concern. And I don't really see the NCAA falling apart because kids are going directly into the pros (here or elsewhere). Fifteen years ago players were allowed to enter out of high school and it didn't have that much of an impact on college ball. It probably caused some problems to NBA teams who went chasing for gold only to find it was just iron pyrite but that's a different issue.

Anyway, as a college basketball fan and an NBA fan, I despise the one and done rule - it's not good for either league. It's tough to say whether it's in the best interest of the players but they are of an age where they should have the right to make their future happen, good or bad.

 

[Russ Smith]

That's fair , there are rules , no matter how stupid they are. Screw him over wasn't the right phrase. I don't like to debate the whole college athletes don't get paid debate/ they get scholarships thing, I do have a major problem with the NCAA s rules are doing. I love watching college basketball but its going down high for awhile now, Zion gave it some life last year but more and more players are going to go the over seas route and once players are allowed in from high school as well NCAA is really going to sink. I don't care if players want to bail on it because that's what I'd do. I would have left Memphis too if I was Wiseman

yeah I'm fine with changing the rules I just object to when people seem to be saying Wiseman was somehow cheated by the NCAA. he was cheated by Penny Hardaway and his mom. The part that bugs me is that it's pretty likely Memphis will go on probation now at some point because of that. So a bunch of kids who are not James Wiseman and didn't get paid to play for Penny in HS are going to be stuck on a team that's likely going to have an NCAA ban because Penny and Wiseman chose to ignore the suspension.

I like the kid he's on my list of guys I'd like the Warriors to draft, I just hated the way they handed it, and yeah totally agree with GatorAZ too, why in the world wait that long and then shortly before he was to be reinstated did he bail. My guess is someone convinced him it was a bad idea to come back in case he either got hurt, or didn't play well and lowered his stock. I am fine with the decision to just prepare for the draft but he IMO should have made that decision earlier.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Wiseman was almost at the end of his suspension when he decided to quit. If he left when initially being ruled ineligible it would have made a bit more sense, but I don't see why he sticks around until he is on the brink of being allowed to play again, then bails.

Regardless, I am rather certain that, no matter where our pick lands, Wiseman won't be on our board. Pairing him and Ayton makes no sense, if he blows people away in workouts and we end up with a chance to pick him we should trade back.

I am not going to worry about it. He probably planned to play but as the date drew nearer it made less and less sense. Making the choice when he did did not really hurt anyone anymore than if he made the choice earlier.

 

[Russ Smith]

I am not going to worry about it. He probably planned to play but as the date drew nearer it made less and less sense. Making the choice when he did did not really hurt anyone anymore than if he made the choice earlier.

It did in the sense that there are kids on that team and recruits in the pipeline who now have to decide do i stay at Memphis, the school I picked, or should I transfer because Memphis is quite likely going to get hit with NCAA sanctions for knowingly playing an ineligible player, Wiseman. He chose to go get an injunction and then defy NCAA suspensions, but it has no impact on his college career but might impact kids in the future who pick Memphis.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Just ran the Tankathon simulator. Suns came up #1. It had them taking LaMelo.

Would you? If not who?

 

[elindholm]

Thon makers cousin Makur is now eligible for the draft

You must be makur that name up.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Just ran the Tankathon simulator. Suns came up #1. It had them taking LaMelo.

Would you? If not who?

Right now, I really don't know who I'd take. But LaMelo, despite being one of those players that has some high level skills, holds zero interest for me. If there was a decent offer, I'm pretty sure I'd trade out of the number one spot even if it meant trading out of this draft completely. But I might change my mind after March Madness.

 

[Raze]

Just ran the Tankathon simulator. Suns came up #1. It had them taking LaMelo.

Would you? If not who?

If you couldn't make any trades and were forced to select, (which is the ONLY way I'd draft #1), I'd default to BPA. Which is barely Anthony Edwards. I'm not sure Wiseman has the heart. I don't like Edwards hero ball attitude, but he plays with passion. He makes no sense next to Book, but maybe he can come off the bench for a few years.

Ball is a tough call. He shows flashes of being Ben Simmons. But then again, I don't like Ben Simmons. So I'd hate to take him. One positive is that he's a better fit here than Wiseman or Edwards. He'd also play behind a similar player in Rubio, so MAYBE he learns to play within the team construct.

One more thing on Lamelo, we all know he'd be the clear cut #1 if he could shoot. His handles and vision are other worldly. He's also a good finisher. But like Ben Simmons, he's an awful jump shooter. Lonzo came in with similar questions on his horrific shot, but amazingly fixed his form. There is a chance Lonzo could convince his brother to fix the shot. If I'm confident of that I'd take him #1. (I do like him more than Lonzo, which isn't saying much since I didn't have him in my top 10.)

I didn't see the IT in Lonzo, I most definitely see IT in Lamelo.

HUGE drop off after Ball. HUGE. And the sad thing is the top 3 aren't great prospects.

I'd hate to be #1 this year. The top 3 picks wouldn't be in my top 10 two years ago. Best move is to trade to someone dumb and desperate (ahem NY).

 

[Carolinacacti]

Hell NO

 

[Phrazbit]

You must be makur that name up.

I Shittu not.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4396908/simi-shittu

 

[Phrazbit]

Just ran the Tankathon simulator. Suns came up #1. It had them taking LaMelo.

Would you? If not who?

I would trade down.

 

[Phrazbit]

I am not going to worry about it. He probably planned to play but as the date drew nearer it made less and less sense. Making the choice when he did did not really hurt anyone anymore than if he made the choice earlier.

I think it legitimizes issues that already existed. There were questions about his passion, his motor, his decision making before all this happened. His response to the scandal was to quit.

Lets say Ayton had, in response to the NCAA allegations during his season at Arizona, decided to pack it up and prepare for the draft; it would have been a huge red flag. Instead, after the allegations broke, Ayton responded with the best game of his college career, pouring in 28 points and 18 rebounds.

If the NCAA had dragged their feet on Wiseman I would not blame him for bailing, but they didn't, despite some deceit from his camp and an obvious major infraction, they cleared him to play after a relatively brief suspension. Towards the end of that suspension Wiseman quit.

Red flags abound. Bad motor, bad judgement, quit on his team, skill set that does not fit the modern game. There is no way I would draft him with a high pick.

 

[SunnyBaller]

I think it legitimizes issues that already existed. There were questions about his passion, his motor, his decision making before all this happened. His response to the scandal was to quit.

Lets say Ayton had, in response to the NCAA allegations during his season at Arizona, decided to pack it up and prepare for the draft; it would have been a huge red flag. Instead, after the allegations broke, Ayton responded with the best game of his college career, pouring in 28 points and 18 rebounds.

If the NCAA had dragged their feet on Wiseman I would not blame him for bailing, but they didn't, despite some deceit from his camp and an obvious major infraction, they cleared him to play after a relatively brief suspension. Towards the end of that suspension Wiseman quit.

Red flags abound. Bad motor, bad judgement, quit on his team, skill set that does not fit the modern game. There is no way I would draft him with a high pick.

Ill say your whole argument is fair besides some of your last statement. Which was his skill set doesn't fit the modern game which i disagree with, red flags are there but nothing in his game that I saw suggests he won't succeed in the NBA, he is very good rim protector, very good athlete, and has a good shooting stroke. He can space the floor and may have 3 range as well, Im not sure how that suggests he doesn't fit

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ill say your whole argument is fair besides some of your last statement. Which was his skill set doesn't fit the modern game which i disagree with, red flags are there but nothing in his game that I saw suggests he won't succeed in the NBA, he is very good rim protector, very good athlete, and has a good shooting stroke. He can space the floor and may have 3 range as well, Im not sure how that suggests he doesn't fit

I agree with this. The small sample size is suspect but what he does show would work in the NBA game.

I do believe that Anthony Edwards is the biggest bust potential of the top potential picks. He is young, he scores, he is an OK rebounder, and he is a better than average shot blocker. However, he is an inefficient shooter, fairly poor defender. His negs outweigh his positives IMO.

 

[JerkFace]

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Deni Avdija is another interesting name in this draft. He has primarily played SF but if it is true that he is up to 6'10" 225 then he definitely has the size to play a modern day 4. On defense his strength will be a concern but as the above video shows, he definitely has some solid post defense.

 

[JCSunsfan]

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Deni Avdija is another interesting name in this draft. He has primarily played SF but if it is true that he is up to 6'10" 225 then he definitely has the size to play a modern day 4. On defense his strength will be a concern but as the above video shows, he definitely has some solid post defense.

Given the last guy we got out of the Israeli league, I am a skeptic.

 

[GatorAZ]

I think it legitimizes issues that already existed. There were questions about his passion, his motor, his decision making before all this happened. His response to the scandal was to quit.

Lets say Ayton had, in response to the NCAA allegations during his season at Arizona, decided to pack it up and prepare for the draft; it would have been a huge red flag. Instead, after the allegations broke, Ayton responded with the best game of his college career, pouring in 28 points and 18 rebounds.

If the NCAA had dragged their feet on Wiseman I would not blame him for bailing, but they didn't, despite some deceit from his camp and an obvious major infraction, they cleared him to play after a relatively brief suspension. Towards the end of that suspension Wiseman quit.

Red flags abound. Bad motor, bad judgement, quit on his team, skill set that does not fit the modern game. There is no way I would draft him with a high pick.

If Ayton was suspended I doubt he’d ever return to play like Wiseman was supposed to. Apparently there were trust issues between him and Penny as well. Idk the details but it sounded like their relationship was really funky from their AAU days. I know this is coming from an AZ fan but Penny is shady AF.

 

[JerkFace]

Given the last guy we got out of the Israeli league, I am a skeptic.

I definitely hear you on that. The main thing with Bender coming out of the Israeli league though is that he was all potential. He only averaged like 2 points in limited garbage time play over there. At least Deni is actually giving some on court production to go with his potential. I am still firmly in the "trade out of this craptastic draft" camp though.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think it legitimizes issues that already existed. There were questions about his passion, his motor, his decision making before all this happened. His response to the scandal was to quit.

Lets say Ayton had, in response to the NCAA allegations during his season at Arizona, decided to pack it up and prepare for the draft; it would have been a huge red flag. Instead, after the allegations broke, Ayton responded with the best game of his college career, pouring in 28 points and 18 rebounds.

If the NCAA had dragged their feet on Wiseman I would not blame him for bailing, but they didn't, despite some deceit from his camp and an obvious major infraction, they cleared him to play after a relatively brief suspension. Towards the end of that suspension Wiseman quit.

Red flags abound. Bad motor, bad judgement, quit on his team, skill set that does not fit the modern game. There is no way I would draft him with a high pick.

For me I think we agree. If he had responded to the final suspension by saying that's too long, I'm going pro, I would have been ok with that. Kid decided the NCAA has got me, i don't want to sit 12 games(?) so I'm going to get an agent and prepare for the draft, I'm good with that. If he had said I don't like the ruling but I'll serve my suspension and then help my team, I'm good with that too. But what he did was really odd, sit out awhile and then give up. Just seems weird to me.

I don't think Ayton necessarily played because he was hungry, I think he played because he knew the NCAA had no proof he'd done anything. They still don't they have tons of innuendo, and I strongly believe he took money, from both Adidas and Nike, but he knew what evidence the NCAA had, because of the FBI case and him apparently having been interviewed by the Feds, so he knew the NCAA could not prove anything.

 

[Raindog]

I agree with this. The small sample size is suspect but what he does show would work in the NBA game.

I do believe that Anthony Edwards is the biggest bust potential of the top potential picks. He is young, he scores, he is an OK rebounder, and he is a better than average shot blocker. However, he is an inefficient shooter, fairly poor defender. His negs outweigh his positives IMO.

Yeah, surely I can't be the only one who sees Edwards and is immediately reminded of Shabazz Muhammad?