2021-22 Around the NBA Thread

[AzStevenCal]

@AzStevenCal

The Suns have the remainder of MLE (4.5 million), BAE (slightly under $4 million) and the Disabled Player Exception about half of Saric's salary ($4 plus million).

That's actually about about $12 million although the Suns are unlikely to use the Disabled Player Exception.

Except we don't have the Disabled Player Exception and aren't likely to get it from what I've read on this forum. And I don't think any of those exceptions are getting us the kind of player we want and need. Now, if we actually had 10 to 12 million to spend on one player, maybe we could find a player around Jae's level but there weren't a lot available this season.

 

[1Sun]

Maybe we could have signed one of the bad ones on that list but no, no way in hell were we getting guys like Portis, Aldridge or Griffin and you know it. We had bits and pieces of that 10 million available, that's not the same thing as having 10 million to spend on a player. And some of the guys on that list would likely never see minutes for us in a contested game.

You still fail to address the issue that the Suns could have signed better than minimum level players with the remaining exemption money, but instead they opted to stick only with minimum level players.

 

[Mainstreet]

Except we don't have the Disabled Player Exception and aren't likely to get it from what I've read on this forum. And I don't think any of those exceptions are getting us the kind of player we want and need. Now, if we actually had 10 to 12 million to spend on one player, maybe we could find a player around Jae's level but there weren't a lot available this season.

I was just going through the math part it.

As I said, the Suns are unlikely to use the Disabled player Exception as most eligible teams because it is a complicated procedure and they do not need it.

The only two players mentioned who I had more than mild interest (with the remainder of the MLE) was Jared Vanderbilt, a RFA who the Wolves signed. Also Bobby Portis who chose to stay in Milwaukee.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You still fail to address the issue that the Suns could have signed better than minimum level players with the remaining exemption money, but instead they opted to stick only with minimum level players.

No you're playing games with the story. You keep saying or implying we could have seriously improved our roster and you use small dollars and end of the bench scrubs to support your statement. You talk about stars and chump change players like they are the same thing.

 

[1Sun]

No you're playing games with the story. You keep saying or implying we could have seriously improved our roster and you use small dollars and end of the bench scrubs to support your statement. You talk about stars and chump change players like they are the same thing.

I never expected the Suns to acquire a star. Just a serviceable rotation player at a position of extreme need. And the fact remains that the Suns did not do all they could and should have done to improve their roster as needed, and they left significant money on the table (or rather in Robert Sarver's pocket...again) in the process.

At a bare minimum, you HAVE to acknowledge this:

The Suns lost Saric and Craig from their playoff rotation. They replaced one, but not the other.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Suns signed JaVale McGee for 1 year, $5,000,000 and left the rest on the table, signing only minimum guys for the remaining roster spots.

Let's say that the Suns instead give McGee a deal for the BAE for 2 years, $7,650,600. That would have left the entire MLE to spend. In the alternative, even as it stands, the Suns could have signed two more players this year, one at $4,536,000 and one at $3,732,000

You couldn't even make it to mentioning someone else before your ridiculousness started. No, McGee wasn't signing for 25% less. Not happening and would have been stupid to sign someone for 1 year with the BAE exception because its not available every year so it needs to be used to maximum efficiency which is signing someone for 2 years, so we don't take a step back when he expires and possibly leaves, with no way to resign him. Now we still have the DPE available this season and next year.

You really believe after signing Paul and Payne to great deals that JJ didn't try and get McGee for as little as possible? It was always going to take a chunk of the MLE. Be thankful it wasn't all of it.

 

[1Sun]

You couldn't even make it to mentioning someone else before your ridiculousness started. No, McGee wasn't signing for 25% less. Not happening and would have been stupid to sign someone for 1 year with the BAE exception because its not available every year so it needs to be used to maximum efficiency which is signing someone for 2 years, so we don't take a step back when he expires and possibly leaves, with no way to resign him. Now we still have the DPE available this season and next year.

You really believe after signing Paul and Payne to great deals that JJ didn't try and get McGee for as little as possible? It was always going to take a chunk of the MLE. Be thankful it wasn't all of it.

You and I both know that the only way Sarver uses the BAE next year is if either Ayton or Bridges is let go. Once they sign extensions (IF they sign, which I am now beginning to doubt), Sarver will not go into the Luxury Tax to use the BAE. Realistically, this was our last chance to use it, and instead, Sarver chose to save a few bucks.

And you and I also both know that even if it would have taken part of the MLE, it would have been to the Suns' benefit to sign McGee for more than one year.

You put it best yourself: The Suns' entire focus this offseason has been getting "great" (i.e., cheaper) deals, rather than doing whatever it takes to imorove the roster and put the team in the best position to compete for a championship.

Robert Sarver 101.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You and I both know that the only way Sarver uses the BAE next year is if either Ayton or Bridges is let go. Once they sign extensions (IF they sign, which I am now beginning to doubt), Sarver will not go into the Luxury Tax to use the BAE. Realistically, this was our last chance to use it, and instead, Sarver chose to save a few bucks.

And you and I also both know that even if it would have taken part of the MLE, it would have been to the Suns' benefit to sign McGee for more than one year.

You put it best yourself: The Suns' entire focus this offseason has been getting "great" (i.e., cheaper) deals, rather than doing whatever it takes to imorove the roster and put the team in the best position to compete for a championship.

Robert Sarver 101.

Sarver has been a bad enough owner on his own, you don't need to keep trying to make him out even worse than he is by twisting the facts and making the future sound like it's preordained.

You were banned once before for admitting that it was your intention to drive us away from the Suns so that Sarver would be ousted. Your constant belittling of him by playing fast and loose with the facts and then manipulating every conversation towards the same conclusion shows you clearly haven't changed your agenda. As a Suns fan, I wish you'd drop your crusade and and join us on this FAN forum.

 

[1Sun]

Sarver has been a bad enough owner on his own, you don't need to keep trying to make him out even worse than he is by twisting the facts and making the future sound like it's preordained.

You were banned once before for admitting that it was your intention to drive us away from the Suns so that Sarver would be ousted. Your constant belittling of him by playing fast and loose with the facts and then manipulating every conversation towards the same conclusion shows you clearly haven't changed your agenda. As a Suns fan, I wish you'd drop your crusade and and join us on this FAN forum.

I actually had hoped that Sarver FINALLY had turned the corner with last year's magical run. Unfortunately I was wrong. It appears as though he will never change and will keep repeating his past mistakes, with us as fans suffering the consequences.

With that, if you believe I am wrong here, what reason, other than traditional Sarver frugality, do you have to offer for the Suns leaving $9-10 million on the table and signing only minimum guys after McGee, rather than bringing in the best available talent possible?

 

[Mainstreet]

I think with the Suns being relatively quiet before Training Camp, the Saric and Smith trade for Thad Young is likely to happen with the Suns bringing back an extra player back. Maybe it has already been agreed upon.

If it happens, they will still have the remainder of the MLE for a buyout if they choose to use it. No need to use the BAE.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I actually had hoped that Sarver FINALLY had turned the corner with last year's magical run. Unfortunately I was wrong. It appears as though he will never change and will keep repeating his past mistakes, with us as fans suffering the consequences.

With that, if you believe I am wrong here, what reason, other than traditional Sarver frugality, do you have to offer for the Suns leaving $9-10 million on the table and signing only minimum guys after McGee, rather than bringing in the best available talent possible?

You mean what did he do after signing the best point guard available, arguably the best backup center available, arguably the best backup point guard available and trading for an upgrade at the two spot? And as has been pointed out time and again, he didn't leave 10 million on the table.

I've followed the Suns since their beginning, AFAIC, the draft notwithstanding, this is one of our best off-seasons ever. We were at real risk of losing our starting point guard, many here thought we'd lose our backup point guard and the odds of us signing a quality backup big man were not favorable. But we came out on top on all 3.

You keep building our weakness into something it isn't, it's not a huge weakness, it's simply the weakest part of a team that just finished with the second best record in the game. And I've been on the "wait till the season starts" bandwagon since before we signed anyone. I thought and still think we have a better chance of a midseason acquisition that can actually help us than we do right now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You mean what did he do after signing the best point guard available, arguably the best backup center available, arguably the best backup point guard available and trading for an upgrade at the two spot? And as has been pointed out time and again, he didn't leave 10 million on the table.

I've followed the Suns since their beginning, AFAIC, the draft notwithstanding, this is one of our best off-seasons ever. We were at real risk of losing our starting point guard, many here thought we'd lose our backup point guard and the odds of us signing a quality backup big man were not favorable. But we came out on top on all 3.

You keep building our weakness into something it isn't, it's not a huge weakness, it's simply the weakest part of a team that just finished with the second best record in the game. And I've been on the "wait till the season starts" bandwagon since before we signed anyone. I thought and still think we have a better chance of a midseason acquisition that can actually help us than we do right now.

Steve... you don’t really believe we were at real risk of losing CP3, do you? Of course Sarver needed to be pushed by a bigger offer by NO, but there was no way he was going to become public enemy number 1 in Phoenix again after that run. If you want to give Jones props for getting CP3, I think the contract he got him to sign was the greatest move made. CP3 was always coming back. Jones just dealed perfectly to get him back and hedge against his age.

Man... I really hope Ayton takes a full step forward offensively this year snd improves defensively, if only a bit. That happens and CP3 stays relatively healthy, we become a total nightmare for other teams.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Steve... you don’t really believe we were at real risk of losing CP3, do you? Of course Sarver needed to be pushed by a bigger offer by NO, but there was no way he was going to become public enemy number 1 in Phoenix again after that run. If you want to give Jones props for getting CP3, I think the contract he got him to sign was the greatest move made. CP3 was always coming back. Jones just dealed perfectly to get him back and hedge against his age.

Man... I really hope Ayton takes a full step forward offensively this year snd improves defensively, if only a bit. That happens and CP3 stays relatively healthy, we become a total nightmare for other teams.

I thought he was much more likely to re-sign than not but yeah, I thought there was a real chance, something like 25%, that we could lose him to one of the LA teams.

And yeah, so much of our future depends on Ayton and his growth.

 

[GatorAZ]

I thought he was much more likely to re-sign than not but yeah, I thought there was a real chance, something like 25%, that we could lose him to one of the LA teams.

And yeah, so much of our future depends on Ayton and his growth.

There was actually zero chance he was going to an LA team unless you think we were taking back Kyle Kuzma or Luke Kennard. That was nothing more than a hot take/morning show conversation.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There was actually zero chance he was going to an LA team unless you think we were taking back Kyle Kuzma or Luke Kennard. That was nothing more than a hot take/morning show conversation.

Sorry, I just don't buy the "zero chance". I've seen too many players through the years say trade me or I'm walking. I don't think CP would have done it but it's no secret that LA is his home and where he wants to be.

 

[GatorAZ]

Sorry, I just don't buy the "zero chance". I've seen too many players through the years say trade me or I'm walking. I don't think CP would have done it but it's no secret that LA is his home and where he wants to be.

We’ll there’s this thing called the salary cap so if he wanted to walk to LA for the tax payers mid-level then good riddance.

 

[Hoop Head]

We’ll there’s this thing called the salary cap so if he wanted to walk to LA for the tax payers mid-level then good riddance.

You feel that way and I would also had it happened but that is not how the vast majority of fans would take the news. Sarver would have been blamed by 95% of the fan base and all of the talking heads would paint it as an epic failure on the Suns behalf for failing to bring Paul back.

So while I agree with you that if he left for pennies in LA then he can screw himself it doesn't help us win any games or make us better next season. It would have likely have caused Booker to ask out and a start of a new low here for the Suns.

 

[Hoop Head]

JJ deserves credit for what he got done, great contracts for Paul and Payne, much lower than anyone predicted, and brought in a very good backup Center who knows his role to mentor and spell Ayton. He also added a capable 3rd PG for next to nothing, added a good wing scorer in Shamet, and retained Nader. Nader played the role Torrey Craig did up until Nader's injury so bringing him back mitigates the loss of Craig a good bit. Craig played small ball Center also, which I didn't like but now we have a true Center in McGee to take over those minutes he spent at the 5.

What has he done wrong, really? I'd like to hear legit complaints from anyone other than 1Sun.

 

[boisesuns]

Ideally the additions are going to help 5-10% but continued improvement from Ayton, cam, and bridges will make the biggest difference. This team knows how to play together and starting the season out with that will put us is a good spot from the start.

not mention booked and cp3 are going to be extra motivated.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We’ll there’s this thing called the salary cap so if he wanted to walk to LA for the tax payers mid-level then good riddance.

Well, sure, the Cap makes it a challenge but if there weren't one I think the odds would have been heavily against us keeping him. As it is, it would have taken a demand from CP and at least a third team to make a trade happen.

And if we couldn't find a decent trade, it wouldn't shock me if any aging veteran decided to forego a lot of money in order to return home to likely win a ring. But as I said, there was a real risk we'd lose him but the odds were well in our favor that he'd re-sign.

 

[Mainstreet]

There was actually zero chance he was going to an LA team unless you think we were taking back Kyle Kuzma or Luke Kennard. That was nothing more than a hot take/morning show conversation.

Chris Paul had his fingerprints all over this Suns team. Even with Devin Booker it was still his team.

I didn't lose any sleep thinking he would go to Lakers He had just taken the Suns to the Finals.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Chris Paul had his fingerprints all over this Suns team. Even with Devin Booker it was still his team.

I didn't lose any sleep thinking he would go to Lakers He had just taken the Suns to the Finals.

I doubt any of us did, by all accounts, family notwithstanding, he was very happy in Phoenix. If anything, the bigger risk was having to give him 3 years with a player option in year 2 and 3 and no salary discount from him. But that doesn't mean there was zero chance we could lose him. Also, to be clear, the risk wasn't just that we could lose him to LA - there's also a very rich guy in charge of that other LA franchise.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Knicks were also a possible Paul suitor. Their GM is his former agent, they had cap space to offer whatever amount it would have cost, a starting job, and a roster that is playoff ready. The Suns look more attractive as a destination but that doesn't mean I didn't have some concerns that a team like New York would offer a lot more cash to steal him away, or Cam Payne if they weren't successful with getting Paul.

Never would have guessed we'd resign Paul and Payne for less than Paul's option would have given him this season and also steal the Knicks starting PG. The Knicks are gonna Knick though.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

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[Mainstreet]

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It's not good news but better now than later. If there is a player that could use time off it's Devin Booker.

Of course Chris Paul coming off injury could use more time off.