2021 2nd round pick is Rondale Moore WR

[kerouac9]

When he's taking swing passes, sweeps, etc...basically behind or within 2 yards of LOS, it's not that hard.

Oh okay. Nuk would be super-cool with that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

not really. The outside Wr spends about 50% more time on the field than a slot wideout. So if you replace each position with a C- player (replacement level), you’re hurting more on the outside.

especially because the attention we pull into the middle of the field makes it harder for Kyler to run because you’re congesting the area between the hashes you want him to move up into.

Who manned AJs spot last year?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Cards averaged 68 plays per game in 2020, and that's with a few games, like Rams Week 17 with only 49 plays, because the offense wasn't clicking. Cards were 3rd in the league in plays per game.

If you scheme Moore with 12 touches/plays per game, Connor/Edmonds with 20-24 plays/touches combined per game, you still have over 30 touches/plays left, to spread between Dhop, Fitz/other WR's and the TE's.

How many runs does that leave for kyler?

 

[kerouac9]

Who manned AJs spot last year?

IMO a combination of Kirk and KeeSean.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

IMO a combination of Kirk and KeeSean.

Then it doesn’t matter who we lose, does it?

 

[Proximo]

He hasn't been good returning kicks punts
Also Keim mentioned he offers return abilities, but it's a stretch at today
Its like projecting Edmonds having 1000, yards rushing

edmunds is more than capable of a thousand yards if he can stay heathy, and gets the carries.

of course Moore is capable of being our return man, and the bar is really low to be better than last seasons return men.

 

[kerouac9]

Then it doesn’t matter who we lose, does it?

Not if you don’t want us to get better in 2021, I guess?

Touches per game 2020:
Drake: 17.6
Kyler Murray: 8.3
Chase Edmonds: 9.4

Targets per game 2020:
Nuk: 10
Kirk: 5.6
Fitz: 5.5
Isabella: 1.2
Dan Arnold: 2.8
Johnson: 2.9

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Not if you don’t want us to get better in 2021, I guess?

Touches per game 2020:
Drake: 17.6
Kyler Murray: 8.3
Chase Edmonds: 9.4

Targets per game 2020:
Nuk: 10
Kirk: 5.6
Fitz: 5.5
Isabella: 1.2
Dan Arnold: 2.8
Johnson: 2.9

We did get better because the guys that were starting there last year are now the backups.

As for targets/touches 12 is a little high to expect for Moore, but he could realistically touch the ball 8+ times per game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

edmunds is more than capable of a thousand yards if he can stay heathy, and gets the carries.

of course Moore is capable of being our return man, and the bar is really low to be better than last seasons return men.

Capable and good are quite different standards.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not if you don’t want us to get better in 2021, I guess?

Touches per game 2020:
Drake: 17.6
Kyler Murray: 8.3
Chase Edmonds: 9.4

Targets per game 2020:
Nuk: 10
Kirk: 5.6
Fitz: 5.5
Isabella: 1.2
Dan Arnold: 2.8
Johnson: 2.9

My point is regardless if we lose AJ or lose Kirk it ends up with rondale taking that third slot. Either bc Kirk is injured or bc Kirk moves over. In either case I think it’s an upgrade bc rondale is an upgrade over whomever the third wr would’ve been last year (with due respect to Fitz).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So . . .
Touches per game 2021
Chase: 17.6
Kyler Murray: 8.3
Conner : 9.4

Targets per game 2020:
Nuk: 10
AJ: 5.6
Kirk: 5.5
Rondale: 5
Isabella: .5
Maxx : .5
[/QUOTE]

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But we already have players for the slot position if something happens to Kirk — Andy Isabella. He can take the 300 snaps or whatever is available for a second slot receiver.

If Green goes down we’re back to KeeSean Johnson getting ignored out the outside for 1/4 to half the season.

This was your original post. You were happy we could put Isabella in for Kirk if he goes down but now say we have to rely on keesean if aj goes down bc we drafted rondale. But truth is, if aj goes down we put in Rondale at slot and slide Kirk to outside.

I suppose question is, if Kirk or aj go down we end up with either:

nuk/Kirk (as you stated he can play aj’s spot - he did so last year)/Rondale
Or
Nuk/aj/Rondale

but if we drafted Marshall we would have:

nuk/Marshall/Kirk
Or
Nuk/Kirk/Isabella (bc marshall proved awful in slot at LSU)

I prefer the top fact set to your latter fact set.

 

[kerouac9]

This was your original post. You were happy we could put Isabella in for Kirk if he goes down but now say we have to rely on keesean if aj goes down bc we drafted rondale. But truth is, if aj goes down we put in Rondale at slot and slide Kirk to outside.

I suppose question is, if Kirk or aj go down we end up with either:

nuk/Kirk (as you stated he can play aj’s spot - he did so last year)/Rondale
Or
Nuk/aj/Rondale

but if we drafted Marshall we would have:

nuk/Marshall/Kirk
Or
Nuk/Kirk/Isabella (bc marshall proved awful in slot at LSU)

I prefer the top fact set to your latter fact set.

No, in the second scenario (assuming Kirk is the one injured) we’d have Nuk/Green/Isabella. I’m fine with that this season for a few games, TBH. I think we could even put Johnson into the slot if Isabella still hasn’t figured out how to play football.

FWIW I think Kirk is replacement level on the outside and from an offensive design POV it’s more crippling to have a zero on the outside than in the slot.

 

[kerouac9]

So . . .
Touches per game 2021
Chase: 17.6
Kyler Murray: 8.3
Conner : 9.4

Targets per game 2020:
Nuk: 10
AJ: 5.6
Kirk: 5.5
Rondale: 5
Isabella: .5
Maxx : .5

[/QUOTE]

If AJ Green is better than the Ghost of Larry Fitzgerald we should expect him to get more targets, yes?

There were 33 other targets scattered among other receivers abs backs last year. So 2 additional targets per game and another .5 rushes per game handed to someone.

We only had 4 rushes by receivers all year last year; people thinking this is suddenly going to become a staple are incorrect.

 

[Solar7]

Cool story. I think it's a very useful exercise to continually talk about wanting Keim to go. I think most of us are on the same page. Us talking about it changes nothing.

It doesn't change the fact that WR needed some depth.

The difference in let's say Terrance Marshall and Rondale Moore, is that Marshal probably barely plays. He plays the same position as AJ Green and DHop. Moore can at least come in as a slot or 4th receiver in the slot. Marshall was moved more to the slot this year and struggled at times, so he probably couldn't do it in the NFL.

As to your comment on players that fight certain circumstances, that's how you win football games lol! Remember watching those AWFUL WR screens last year? They now have a guy who can make that play.

I don't think letting Keim go makes sense in every discussion, but it's plenty fine to critique his moves. I'm tired of the outlier picks. The guy doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, so I'm going to criticize it when it seems like he doesn't have a real plan.

You win by upgrading key positions, not drafting slot WR backups in the 2nd round. Not by trying to solve for your screen pass calls being bad plays in the first place by doubling up on them.

Bad analogy. Most of us believe he should’ve been fired. Which is what would happen with you. Better analogy:

you’re a bad accountant but boss keeps you employed. You’re really bad at reconciling gains and losses. Guess we should just stop reconciling gains and losses according to your philosophy.

I'm never saying stop addressing the position. Look at different methods to address the position, though. One year deals to 32 year old WRs and drafting the smallest WR in a long time in the second round aren't high percentage ways to do so.

I guess we'll see what we get. Normally guys of this size go in the later rounds, like Tarik Cohen and Jakeem Grant. Even Tyreek Hill, who obviously is the outlier.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't think letting Keim go makes sense in every discussion, but it's plenty fine to critique his moves. I'm tired of the outlier picks. The guy doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, so I'm going to criticize it when it seems like he doesn't have a real plan.

You win by upgrading key positions, not drafting slot WR backups in the 2nd round. Not by trying to solve for your screen pass calls being bad plays in the first place by doubling up on them.


I'm never saying stop addressing the position. Look at different methods to address the position, though. One year deals to 32 year old WRs and drafting the smallest WR in a long time in the second round aren't high percentage ways to do so.

I guess we'll see what we get. Normally guys of this size go in the later rounds, like Tarik Cohen and Jakeem Grant. Even Tyreek Hill, who obviously is the outlier.

I think this is becoming further from the truth. Just this year (5’10 or shorter):

1st round:
Waddle
2nd round:
Elijah Moore
Rondale
Eskridge
Tutu
Marshall was the only 2nd round wr over 5’10 and he was drafted after all these guys.

In fact, in the first two rounds there were more sub-5’10 wrs drafted than 6’+ wrs drafted.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If AJ Green is better than the Ghost of Larry Fitzgerald we should expect him to get more targets, yes?

There were 33 other targets scattered among other receivers abs backs last year. So 2 additional targets per game and another .5 rushes per game handed to someone.

We only had 4 rushes by receivers all year last year; people thinking this is suddenly going to become a staple are incorrect.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know about “staple,” but I’ll bet he gets 10-15 jet sweeps this year. We haven’t had anyone in the past with his skillset, so I wouldn’t expect them to try it much.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don't think letting Keim go makes sense in every discussion, but it's plenty fine to critique his moves. I'm tired of the outlier picks. The guy doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, so I'm going to criticize it when it seems like he doesn't have a real plan.

You win by upgrading key positions, not drafting slot WR backups in the 2nd round. Not by trying to solve for your screen pass calls being bad plays in the first place by doubling up on them.


I'm never saying stop addressing the position. Look at different methods to address the position, though. One year deals to 32 year old WRs and drafting the smallest WR in a long time in the second round aren't high percentage ways to do so.

I guess we'll see what we get. Normally guys of this size go in the later rounds, like Tarik Cohen and Jakeem Grant. Even Tyreek Hill, who obviously is the outlier.

Right...they used to go later...until they proved that smaller guys can have impacts too.

Just like Russell Wilson led to Murray going #1 overall and you used this same argument against taking Murray. Rondale Moore's job isn't picking apples at the top of a tree without a ladder.

LOL I don't think he'll be the "back up slot receiver". I think he'll play specific roles in the offense and run specific routes to get explosive plays.

I mean, you're constantly harping on how few people are under contract this, and then now you're complaining about adding guys who will be around 3 years from now.

 

[GatorAZ]

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[Shane]

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this video is awesome. The comments from the panel about how he has no problem getting in defenders grill without the ball and the video analysis is fantastic.

 

[TK421]

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You must be registered for see images attach

Ok now I'm starting to like this pick.

 

[Vacard]

Maybe he'll become Rob Moore reincarnated lol

 

[Chopper0080]

If you believe in college breakout age (a solid indicator of pro success) which is something the Steelers have used for years to identify WRs, Thicc Tavon Austin is in the 99th percentile.

 

[MadCardDisease]

If AJ Green is better than the Ghost of Larry Fitzgerald we should expect him to get more targets, yes?

There were 33 other targets scattered among other receivers abs backs last year. So 2 additional targets per game and another .5 rushes per game handed to someone.

We only had 4 rushes by receivers all year last year; people thinking this is suddenly going to become a staple are incorrect.[/QUOTE]



What did Cardinals WRs really suck at last year?

YAC


Larry Fitzgerald YAC per reception of 3.4 yards was 124th in the league.
Kirk wasn't much better with 3.6 yards and 122nd in the league.
Isabella averaged 3.9 yards after each catch which put him at 114th in the NFL.
Hopkins had the highest among the Cardinals WRs with an average of 4.6 yards and that put him at 80th in the NFL.



At Purdue 71% of Moore's yards came after the catch. This is where I hope Moore will help the Cardinals.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

If you believe in college breakout age (a solid indicator of pro success) which is something the Steelers have used for years to identify WRs, Thicc Tavon Austin is in the 99th percentile.

woah hadn't hear about this metric... digging into it, thx Chopper