Zeem_Freeze
Hall of Famer
He's not mic'd up on accident. Organization trying to introduce us to the stud they've seen all training camp and the film from PG1 matches.
2021 4th round pick is Marco Wilson CB
- Thread starter BullheadCardFan
- Start date
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
Really you thought it was miserable? I thought we had a good mix of supporters and skeptics.
Jetstream Green
Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
I am cautiously hoovering my finger to tap that Marco Wilson button... but I am slamming my fist on the Rondale Moore button with gusto
The bitterness and negativity was way louder then the supporters and he didn’t even play his first game. I will never forget it. And it was quite frankly way worst then Rosen’s first whole year under Wilkes.
cardsfanmd
ASFN Icon
Wayyyy worse. I was one of the handful of original Murray supporters. I think the main reason people doubted Murray so much was that Keim catches more grief than anyone on this board since The Snail and his first round track record wasn’t overly inspiring at the time.
Solar7
Go Suns
It was hard to feel positive when a good chunk of the board couldn't even spell the former head coach's name right.
It was Wilks.
The unrelenting positivity here, especially during that bland season, was wildly offputting.
Solar7
Go Suns
His track record in all drafting is the worst in the league. He deserves the grief. "The Snail" had the best Arizona Cardinals draft class we've ever had.
QuebecCard
ASFN Addict
And who was the head of scouting, pray tell?
tnmike
Hall of Famer
Hoover ? Wasn't he that guy in Animal House?I am cautiously hoovering my finger to tap that Marco Wilson button... but I am slamming my fist on the Rondale Moore button with gusto
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
“Handful?” You guys are mischaracterizing history. I was excited, I know cheese was cautiously so, even krang (who started out anti-kyler) turned into a huge proponent. And there were a bunch of koolaiders who never think anything’s wrong. That’s just off the top of my head. I viewed the sides as being evenly split with a pro-kyler lean.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
I love that for some keim gets the credit when he wasn’t the head guy but excuses are made (Mikey picked that coach, kk picked that guy) when he is the head guy.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
I think there were about 4-5 really LOUD anti-Murray guys, 4-5 LOUD pro-Murray guys, but the majority of the board was in wait and see mode.
Hell, I'm a huge Murray fan, even splurged on one of his expensive jerseys, but I think he needs to improve the most for this team to take the next step. Last year when he didn't want to run as much, teams exploited his flaws, week after week.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Buck stops with Keim.
I will say that if this year works out, he gets a ton of credit. If the draft class produces like it looks like it could, Keim will be right out of the doghouse.
QuebecCard
ASFN Addict
Credit where due... opprobrium as required.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Absolutely.
The Cardinals clearly feel they found a player on day three. It's not like this is completely unexpected since they traded up and traded a future pick to get him.
It wasn't a bad gamble; drafting a super athletic corner from a school in a conference that routinely goes up against the best is good drafting. Bad drafting is going after a super athlete who has only played ONE year at a new position and never really had good tape (Brandon Williams).
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
Except we really don’t know about either. What we do know was when he wasn’t GM he was just part of the equation. When he is GM he is supposed to be in charge of the equation. So which should be more heavily weighted?
OP
OP
This is it in a nutshell
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
I mean, we speculate on whether Wilks was a Bidwill hire or a Keim hire, but Keim has enough of a track record that his own accomplishments stand on their own.
I've stated this elsewhere, but I think this team, if healthy, can be a playoff team. What I worry is that you have a few key players like AJ Green that will be free agents and the team is not going to have a ton of cap space once Murray's extension is signed. This team could go on a 1-3 year run of making the playoffs, to only go back to a rebuild because Keim hasn't shown the ability to draft cheap, young player to replace expensive free agents.
That's why I think if the team falters this year, the Cardinals absolutely SHOULD clean house. Playoffs or bust. Even then the writing is on the wall already that Keim is not the one to create a true winning pedigree for the Arizona Cardinals.
OP
OP
Agree
cardsfanmd
ASFN Icon
Lol. I’d venture to say you may have the least credibility on this entire board to attack anyone’s draft record. Want to tell us some more about how terrible Kyler Murray will be and why we need to hold on to Rosen?
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
Hmm interesting take. What other draftees was he way off on? Or are you basing your opinion on a single draft pick?
It did occur to me that if you apply the same logic to Keim it's even worse. His first round hit rate alone is...
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Solar7
Go Suns
What a ridiculous, attacking take.
Right now, Kyler's still nothing but a stat monster. Better than I thought he'd be, but hey. Do you know my takes on any of the rest of our picks? Or is it just that, like Ouchie said?
There was no “unrelenting positivity” it was mostly wait and see and really loud anti-Murray sentiment based on dubious and completely irrelevant news articles questioning his leadership skills before he played a single snap. Way worst then Rosen who most were excited about and glad he fell to us, myself included. Even after his putrid year this board was way more positive for Rosen then they were of Kyler before he played a single snap, that was the point.
Solar7
Go Suns
At least for me, that's because we made this overwhelming risk with the franchise. My biggest problem with Keim is that he always wants to be the smartest guy in the room. We hired a guy who couldn't buy a winning season, got fired, and paired him with a short kid he'd been obsessed with for years.
I don't think the sentiment questioning Murray follows him if not for Kliff's losing record, and the media storm following the quote from Kliff's time at TT. To be additionally skeptical for many of us, there was a guy already under contract for another sport, who continues to say he wants to play two ways, and doesn't want to play in preseason.
Kyler's been better than I anticipated, but if it were Eric Bieniemy (only mentioned because we requested to interview him in 2019) making the call to get the guy, I would have felt different. Bieniemy is no sure thing, but he's been around, with clear success.
