2021 4th round pick is Marco Wilson CB

BigRedRage · May 9, 2021

Solar7 said:
He's... not. But okay. I know this just devolves into the "he's technically a starter" conversation, so we don't need to have it again. The issue is, he can't cover the best guys in our division, much less the league.

We overinvested. it is what it is, but the comparison is the Seahawks getting their slot specialist late in the 4th round as compared to us being 1 pick away from taking him in the first.

Pace is always going to be judged on exactly what he should be - what we missed out on because of taking him. While Pace had a 10 year career or whatever, he did most of his best work on someone else's roster, while we passed on a hall of fame player.

I'd much rather have an AJ Brown or DK Metcalf over Byron Murphy, and that's just off of the top of my head without looking at the round.

I don't believe every second round corner should be able to cover any wr in the division at a high level. Standards are too high with that expectation on every guy imo

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oaken1 · May 9, 2021

BigRedRage said:
I don't believe every second round corner should be able to cover any wr in the division at a high level. Standards are too high with that expectation on every guy imo

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I agree.... second round is the perfect spot for a slot corner.... you get your #1 in the top 15......#2 later in the first.... and your nickle back in the second

unless of course you get a steal
Or your coaches actually develop a guy

neither of which appear to fit the Cardinals M.O.

Solar7 · May 9, 2021

BigRedRage said:
I don't believe every second round corner should be able to cover any wr in the division at a high level. Standards are too high with that expectation on every guy imo

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I get your point, but I feel like someone who is nearly in the first round should be at least potentially capable of starting in a primary role on a team. If we drafted a 3rd down RB or a DE whose only ability was stopping the run... I'd be just as unhappy with it. Well, assuming it wasn't your only hole. If you just missed a Super Bowl win and need someone who is going to take care of a few pesky players in your way, go for it.

BritCard · May 10, 2021

oaken1 said:
I agree.... second round is the perfect spot for a slot corner.... you get your #1 in the top 15......#2 later in the first.... and your nickle back in the second

unless of course you get a steal
Or your coaches actually develop a guy

neither of which appear to fit the Cardinals M.O.

The NFL disagrees. These are the guys considered to be some of the best Nickels in the league. Including the nickels of the top defenses from last year.

Kenny Moore II - Undrafted
Bryce Callahan - Undrafted
Desmond King - 5th round (151st pick)
Brian Poole - Undrafted
Jonathan Jones - Undrafted
Nickell Robey-Coleman - Undrafted
Chris Harris Jr - Undrafted
Mike Hilton - Undrafted
K'Wuan Williams - Undrafted
Troy Hill - Undrafted
Tavon Young - 4th round (104th pick)
Kendall Fuller - 3rd round (84th pick)
Chauncey Gardner Johnson - 4th round (105th pick)

The highest drafted slot corners I can find in the league is Sean Murphy-Bunting who went in the same draft as Murphy at #39 and Mackensie Alexander who was drafted at #54. The vast majority are undrafted, and what remains are mostly outside the top 100 picks.

Murphy, as far as I can see, if the highest drafted slot in the league.

cardncubfan · May 10, 2021

Krangthebrain said:
See this is where you have been Kiper-ed.

2nd round picks that are decent players are good picks.

Quit listening to the draft fan boys and start looking at reality. Murphy is a good player.

Murphy is also still improving.

oaken1 · May 10, 2021

BritCard said:
The NFL disagrees. These are the guys considered to be some of the best Nickels in the league. Including the nickels of the top defenses from last year.

Kenny Moore II - Undrafted
Bryce Callahan - Undrafted
Desmond King - 5th round (151st pick)
Brian Poole - Undrafted
Jonathan Jones - Undrafted
Nickell Robey-Coleman - Undrafted
Chris Harris Jr - Undrafted
Mike Hilton - Undrafted
K'Wuan Williams - Undrafted
Troy Hill - Undrafted
Tavon Young - 4th round (104th pick)
Kendall Fuller - 3rd round (84th pick)
Chauncey Gardner Johnson - 4th round (105th pick)

The highest drafted slot corners I can find in the league is Sean Murphy-Bunting who went in the same draft as Murphy at #39 and Mackensie Alexander who was drafted at #54. The vast majority are undrafted, and what remains are mostly outside the top 100 picks.

Murphy, as far as I can see, if the highest drafted slot in the league.

but the league is changing and one trend always follows another in the nfl....offenses are passing more...stacking more wr's....it reres more playable DB's

BritCard · May 11, 2021

oaken1 said:
but the league is changing and one trend always follows another in the nfl....offenses are passing more...stacking more wr's....it reres more playable DB's

But it's not changing. Not recently. Not enough to say you have to draft slot corners in round 2 now instead of using lower round or undrafted guys.

Last year, only 3 QB's had more than 600 attempts with Matt Ryan leading with 626.

Go back to 2015 there were 6 QB's with over 600 attempts and Rivers led the way with 661.

Go back to 2011 and there were 3 with Stafford leading with 663.

The volume of passing really hasn't changed in the last 10 years.

Personnel grouping trends have changed though. In 2011 11 Personnel was used 40% of the time. In 2019 it was 58%. So there are more plays with 3 WR's on the field for sure which has made slot more important.

Still, #33 is high for a slot.

Part of me wonders if the time has come for Murphy to transition outside. Maybe that was always the plan. To give him a couple of years to adjust playing slot while P2 was around with him moving outside when P2 is gone.

While were all stressing about Alford and why we haven't signed another outside CB maybe he's already here with Murphy and Butler playing outside and Gowan/Wilson in the slot.

DVontel · May 11, 2021

BritCard said:
But it's not changing. Not recently. Not enough to say you have to draft slot corners in round 2 now instead of using lower round or undrafted guys.

Last year, only 3 QB's had more than 600 attempts with Matt Ryan leading with 626.

Go back to 2015 there were 6 QB's with over 600 attempts and Rivers led the way with 661.

Go back to 2011 and there were 3 with Stafford leading with 663.

The volume of passing really hasn't changed in the last 10 years.

Personnel grouping trends have changed though. In 2011 11 Personnel was used 40% of the time. In 2019 it was 58%. So there are more plays with 3 WR's on the field for sure which has made slot more important.

Still, #33 is high for a slot.

Part of me wonders if the time has come for Murphy to transition outside. Maybe that was always the plan. To give him a couple of years to adjust playing slot while P2 was around with him moving outside when P2 is gone.

While were all stressing about Alford and why we haven't signed another outside CB maybe he's already here with Murphy and Butler playing outside and Gowan/Wilson in the slot.

Gowan is 6’1. He is definitely not playing in the slot, lol.

BritCard · May 11, 2021

DVontel said:
Gowan is 6’1. He is definitely not playing in the slot, lol.

Is there a height limit on playing slot?

Marlon Humphrey played a bunch of slot last year. I'm not saying he's going to be a full time slot, simply that they might get him early snaps at that position.

DVontel · May 11, 2021

BritCard said:
Is there a height limit on playing slot?

Marlon Humphrey played a bunch of slot last year. I'm not saying he's going to be a full time slot, simply that they might get him early snaps at that position.

When have you seen a player bordering 6’2 in the slot? A majority of them don’t have the twitch mandatory to play it at a level & if they did, they would be moved outside.

BritCard · May 11, 2021

DVontel said:
When have you seen a player bordering 6’2 in the slot? A majority of them don’t have the twitch mandatory to play it at a level & if they did, they would be moved outside.

I'm not saying he's going to be a slot, just that they may give him some snaps there depending on the match up just to get him experience. It was more a comment about Murphy moving out, it doesn't have to be a big deal.

Chopper0080 · May 11, 2021

BritCard said:
I'm not saying he's going to be a slot, just that they may give him some snaps there depending on the match up just to get him experience. It was more a comment about Murphy moving out, it doesn't have to be a big deal.

Jalen, Byron and Budda would all probably get slot reps prior to Gowan. Most of a player's ability to play in the slot is about their change of direction and short area burst. Most taller CBs struggle in those areas because they don't have a low center of gravity. Playing outside values length more than change of direction.

Krangodnzr · May 11, 2021

Chopper0080 said:
Jalen, Byron and Budda would all probably get slot reps prior to Gowan. Most of a player's ability to play in the slot is about their change of direction and short area burst. Most taller CBs struggle in those areas because they don't have a low center of gravity. Playing outside values length more than change of direction.

I'm excited that the Cardinals added two long fast, outside corners and a safety with some ball skills. The reason? Only drafting one means of that player doesn't work out, you have no good player at that position but adding two means a higher chance of finding a good player.

If Wilson AND Gowan work out, this defense could be legitimately pretty good.

cardncubfan · May 11, 2021

Krangthebrain said:
I'm excited that the Cardinals added two long fast, outside corners and a safety with some ball skills. The reason? Only drafting one means of that player doesn't work out, you have no good player at that position but adding two means a higher chance of finding a good player.

If Wilson AND Gowan work out, this defense could be legitimately pretty good.

I have high hopes for all 3. Gowan, Wilson, & Higgins. I think they will all make the final 53.

Krangodnzr · May 12, 2021

cardncubfan said:
I have high hopes for all 3. Gowan, Wilson, & Higgins. I think they will all make the final 53.

Strangely I have less hope for Wilson than I do Gowan. Gowan has pretty good tape.

I see Wiggins as a sub package safety and core special teamer. The Cardinals have a group of awesome young special teamer led by Zeke Turner. They look as good as any group I've see the team have.

BritCard · May 14, 2021