2022 Arizona Cardinals Roster Review

[Chopper0080]

I hope we find a way to retain Byron Murphy, Jalen Thompson, and Zach Allen. I like all of them as NFL players even if they aren't top guys.

 

[BritCard]

There are several ways to scheme vs a pass rusher. You can vary your drop depth or decrease the rate of deeper drops. You can adjust your play calling. You can roll the QB away from a side if the player plays on one side predominantly. You can double or chip. Even sliding protection to a player and then using a RB to chip away is an option. You can run at the player to wear them down.

I guess you can assert that teams didn't scheme against one of the most productive pass rushers over the past 5 seasons who was just paid a contract that averages 17 mil per year because of his double-team rate.

They are all ways to scheme, but you specifically mentioned he enabled other players to have one on one matchups suggesting he's drawing a bunch of DTs.

And what about 2020? Without CJ we finished 12th in points allowed. 9th in passing yards allowed. 10th in defensive DVOA.

We also won both games last year without him. Conceding 12 points per game.

No doubt CJ is a good player. But I don't think he's been great for 2 years. And in the 14 games he's missed in those 2 years the defence has barely skipped a beat.

 

[BritCard]

He gave me one number...double team rate. He also asked if by scheme I meant double team. My answer to that was no. I did not just mean double team rate which is why I provided the additional ways teams scheme vs defensive front 7 players.

I stated that if he wants to base his determination that teams did not scheme vs Chandler Jones based upon the double team rate, he can. I will disagree with that, cite the contract he was paid, his production, and my own knowledge of football and what teams do to the best defensive front 7 players.

You specifically mentioned he was giving other guys 1 on 1 opportunities which can only be because he's drawing double teams.

Which is why I specifically mentioned double teams.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I've heard it. I'm just not sure how true it is.

For one, we missed him most of the 2020 season and the pass rush didn't skip a beat. In fact I believe we had our best year recently for sacks (total team).

I'm guessing by "scheme for" you mean double teams? That he took up two players regularly to free up other people? His double team rate was 20% last year which is below average. It was less than greats such as Carlos Dunlap, John Franklin-Myers, Joe Tryon, Randy Gregory, the ghost of Justin Houston, Charles Harris, Uchenna Nwosu, Josh Sweat, and whoever Jake Martin is. Even Golden had 15% double teams so it's not a huge difference between them.

It was similar in 2019 when he was doubled only 16.5% of the time while guys like Max Crosby, Hendrickson, Clowney, Z.Smith, D-Law, Garrett etc were 25-28% DT'd.

If we are talking 2020 who is our Reddick?

 

[cardpa]

So what ya'all are saying is Joseph did a much better job than KK in adjusting the defense when injuries and sub par performance reared their ugly head. When KK lost Hopkins he pretty much failed to make adequate adjustment to the offense while Joseph reworked some things to make up for the shortfalls. People are also saying the defense's DVOA was quite good yet Joseph takes a lot of heat for being bad. How can that be?

 

[Chopper0080]

You specifically mentioned he was giving other guys 1 on 1 opportunities which can only be because he's drawing double teams.

Which is why I specifically mentioned double teams.

Giving help doesn't always equate to a double team. Sliding protection doesn't always equate to a double team. However, both of those can create one on one matchups. Only 5 linemen. Hell, having an OG check their outside shoulder prior to helping the C or blitz pickup to ensure the EDGE doesn't win fast inside can be a huge help to DTs and blitzers.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/10/15/arizona-cardinals-defense/

The combination of a blitz-heavy scheme and trench battles being won by Watt, Jones and company has caused opponents to frequently keep extra blockers in to protect their quarterbacks, Cardinals defensive coordinator Vance Joseph noted last week.

“I don’t blame them,” Joseph said. “I don’t mind it, because [they have] three receivers out and I’ve got five [defensive backs] — I’m going to win third downs.”

Interesting read from when things were going well that goes more into depth WHY things were going right.

Guys like Watt and Jones are difference makers - Jones being gone will hurt, and when Watt inevitably goes down, we'll be throwing out the likes of Golden/Kennard/Fotu/Allen?

Something tells me we'll see a lot less max protect on 3rd down with Jones gone.

 

[football karma]

So what ya'all are saying is Joseph did a much better job than KK in adjusting the defense when injuries and sub par performance reared their ugly head. When KK lost Hopkins he pretty much failed to make adequate adjustment to the offense while Joseph reworked some things to make up for the shortfalls. People are also saying the defense's DVOA was quite good yet Joseph takes a lot of heat for being bad. How can that be?

i wouldnt say that

post bye -- the defense gave up 29 points a game with neither rush nor pass defense being any good

 

[Chopper0080]

So what ya'all are saying is Joseph did a much better job than KK in adjusting the defense when injuries and sub par performance reared their ugly head. When KK lost Hopkins he pretty much failed to make adequate adjustment to the offense while Joseph reworked some things to make up for the shortfalls. People are also saying the defense's DVOA was quite good yet Joseph takes a lot of heat for being bad. How can that be?

If someone on this board wants to believe that Vance Joseph is anything more than a mediocre NFL DC, go right ahead.

 

[juza76]

I hope we find a way to retain Byron Murphy, Jalen Thompson, and Zach Allen. I like all of them as NFL players even if they aren't top guys.

Jalen Thompson expecially

 

[Chopper0080]

Jalen Thompson expecially

Budda Baker makes that situation trickier. Honestly, if we keep Vance long term, moving Budda as long long as Thompson will sign for less would be smart. No reason to pay a S all that money to play deep zone and not get interceptions. Maybe Vance changes how he uses Budda this year, but if not, just wasting a bunch of money.

Maye you can afford both if you want to continue to bargain shop for soft zone CBs...I don't know.

 

[cardpa]

If someone on this board wants to believe that Vance Joseph is anything more than a mediocre NFL DC, go right ahead.

i wouldnt say that

post bye -- the defense gave up 29 points a game with neither rush nor pass defense being any good

What I'm trying to point out is there are posts here quoting the defense's DOVA rankings and saying they were pretty good and the defense ranked fairly high overall yet when it comes to Joseph he catches a lot of heat for having a crappy defense. I don't see how you can have both unless one of them is not what it appears to be. Either the DVOA rankings are pretty accurate and Joseph is a better DC than given credit for or the DOVA is really crap and Joseph is a pretty bad DC.

 

[JosiahLee]

If we are talking 2020 who is our Reddick?

Why you gotta go and bring up Reddick? Letting him walk still stings. We had CJ’s replacement already on the roster!

It especially hurts seeing how little Carolina and Philly has paid him too.

 

[juza76]

Budda Baker makes that situation trickier. Honestly, if we keep Vance long term, moving Budda as long long as Thompson will sign for less would be smart. No reason to pay a S all that money to play deep zone and not get interceptions. Maybe Vance changes how he uses Budda this year, but if not, just wasting a bunch of money.

Maye you can afford both if you want to continue to bargain shop for soft zone CBs...I don't know.

The logical choice should be extending the younger and more complete safety in the roster and trading the expensive one who has some limitations on his game and invest the money on a true cb1
But it's more likely the opposite

 

[DVontel]

The logical choice should be extending the younger and more complete safety in the roster and trading the expensive one who has some limitations on his game and invest the money on a true cb1
But it's more likely the opposite

Think the most logical choice is to keep good players, not trade them away.

 

[juza76]

Think the most logical choice is to keep good players, not trade them away.

But there is the salary cap and its dumb paying big bucks 2 safeties

 

[kerouac9]

I think the thing with Vance is that he’ll give you a Top 12 defense with average talent and a Top 10 defense with elite talent. What’s the point of adding great talent for such small marginal gains?

 

[gmabel830]

ESPN has an article on best remaining free agents and best fits and Sheldon Richardson was an honorable mention with Cards being best fit. I’d be happy with that move.

Kevin King (CB) was rated #3, and while Cards weren’t best fit I would be happy with that move as well.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

ESPN has an article on best remaining free agents and best fits and Sheldon Richardson was an honorable mention with Cards being best fit. I’d be happy with that move.

Kevin King (CB) was rated #3, and while Cards weren’t best fit I would be happy with that move as well.

We only have like 2M in cap space. No moves are going to be made, unless Keim does a move to free up money first.

 

[QuebecCard]

We only have like 2M in cap space. No moves are going to be made, unless Keim does a move to free up money first.

We have $10+m in Cap space.

The Cards can sign just about any one or two and differ some of the cost if need be.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

We have $10+m in Cap space.

The Cards can sign just about any one or two and differ some of the cost if need be.

Your right. This must have been prior to the draft picks signing or something.

Maybe too soon, but I wonder how they handle Gladney's cap number...

 

[BritCard]

Your right. This must have been prior to the draft picks signing or something.

Maybe too soon, but I wonder how they handle Gladney's cap number...

We just got the Philips post June 1st release cap relief on Wednesday

 

[BritCard]

ESPN has an article on best remaining free agents and best fits and Sheldon Richardson was an honorable mention with Cards being best fit. I’d be happy with that move.

Kevin King (CB) was rated #3, and while Cards weren’t best fit I would be happy with that move as well.

Bring on all the double K names...

I wouldn't mind King. He knows Budda and what's to lose? See how he works out in camp.

 

[kerouac9]

Your right. This must have been prior to the draft picks signing or something.

Maybe too soon, but I wonder how they handle Gladney's cap number...

I believe it goes on a reserve list. They'll have to account for any bonus/guaranteed money that was paid ($2 million per OTC), and it nets a $500k cap savings (I think).

They could go over the signing bonus money, but man, that's a tough look.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I believe it goes on a reserve list. They'll have to account for any bonus/guaranteed money that was paid ($2 million per OTC), and it nets a $500k cap savings (I think).

They could go over the signing bonus money, but man, that's a tough look.

Yeah I'd be a little sickened if they went after that money.