2022 World Cup Thread
- Thread starter Zeno
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OP
OP
Zeno
Ancient
Croatian GK is the hero today, 3 saves in the shootout.
Japan had a strong tournament overall but they are now out.
Japan had a strong tournament overall but they are now out.
Luciano
ASFN Lifer
Marocco goalie too ! Best GK of la Liga after all, won The Zamora Trophy.
He told Soler "I know where you kick it" and he saved it !
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He actually guessed right on all 3 kicks. 2 of them he blocked, the other one the guy hit the post and missed.
And yeah he was in the head of the Spanish players for sure.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Wow, Spain out. Switzerland getting pummeled by Portugal and is about to be out.
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There have been multiple posts here about the US team lacking strikers and creative play makers so it got me to wondering where most of the US players come from. Are they in the US program or do they come from top soccer colleges.
The current US roster of 26 players finds that 8 of them played college soccer and of those eight, three were starters. Turner, Zimmerman and Ream attended colleges and played soccer while the five others, Yedlin, Long, Morris, Roldan, and Johnson were college players that were rostered on the US team. Of these eight, six are either defenders or goalkeepers (2).
Conversely, seventeen members of the USWNT have come from the college ranks.
To me this begs the question, does the US soccer program largely ignore potential college players in preference to players who come up through the ranks of the US program and why is it the defense of the US team leans more toward college players in the back and at midfield and forward/striker there is an almost complete absence of college players.
Six of the twelve defenders/goalkeepers have played in college while only 2 of the 14 midfielders. forwards, strikers are college players on the current US roster. Is the US program largely ignoring the pool of college players that are available to them?
Then I came across this article which was written in January of 2022.
https://scottmartinmedia.com/blogs/news/hes-a-d1-player-but-is-he-ncaa-d1-mens-soccer-data-analysis
A couple of excerpts from the article:
Here in the USA, we have several pathways to the professional and collegiate games. There’s MLS NEXT, ECNL (national and regional), USL Academy, NPL, PDL, ODP, USL2 for the summer months…I’m probably missing some, but these are widely regarded as the top leagues for America’s best talent.
For many players and families, participation in one of these leagues is seen as a precursor to professional and collegiate soccer. For the most part, they’re correct. There’s little infrastructure outside of those pathways. The occasional high school-only player will make it onto a college roster, but these cases are rare. In fact, if you look at those top few leagues, the players aren’t even allowed to play high school soccer.
Just from the MLS NEXT, ECNL National, and USL Academy systems, there are a total of 259 teams. Let’s say each team carries 20 players. That means the top three youth leagues in the nation have approximately 5,180. That number is very close to the total number of players in D1 soccer programs.
Playing college soccer is seen as a means of earning a degree while continuing the soccer dream. It attracts much of America’s top talent, as well as many international students who developed at top academies across the globe. When faced with the decision to play in the lowest professional ranks in their own country or come to the USA for school and soccer, a trip abroad has become a popular option.
I wanted to see how deep into their bench D1 programs were likely to go, so I filtered for games started (903 of the 1,192 players had listings for starts). Suddenly, our numbers were much closer. Of 8,176 total starts, 4,700 went to the American kids, 3,476 to internationals. Right away, the margin closes to 14%.
Apparently US colleges are a popular landing spot for international players so they can earn a degree. If the writer's number are accurate, it means that between the top three leagues and college combined, there is roughly 10,000 players available to the US soccer program to evaluate for the national team.
It seems almost inconceivable that out of a pool of ten thousand players the leadership of the US mens national team program cannot find a couple of competent scorers and creative play makers.
The current US roster of 26 players finds that 8 of them played college soccer and of those eight, three were starters. Turner, Zimmerman and Ream attended colleges and played soccer while the five others, Yedlin, Long, Morris, Roldan, and Johnson were college players that were rostered on the US team. Of these eight, six are either defenders or goalkeepers (2).
Conversely, seventeen members of the USWNT have come from the college ranks.
To me this begs the question, does the US soccer program largely ignore potential college players in preference to players who come up through the ranks of the US program and why is it the defense of the US team leans more toward college players in the back and at midfield and forward/striker there is an almost complete absence of college players.
Six of the twelve defenders/goalkeepers have played in college while only 2 of the 14 midfielders. forwards, strikers are college players on the current US roster. Is the US program largely ignoring the pool of college players that are available to them?
Then I came across this article which was written in January of 2022.
https://scottmartinmedia.com/blogs/news/hes-a-d1-player-but-is-he-ncaa-d1-mens-soccer-data-analysis
A couple of excerpts from the article:
Here in the USA, we have several pathways to the professional and collegiate games. There’s MLS NEXT, ECNL (national and regional), USL Academy, NPL, PDL, ODP, USL2 for the summer months…I’m probably missing some, but these are widely regarded as the top leagues for America’s best talent.
For many players and families, participation in one of these leagues is seen as a precursor to professional and collegiate soccer. For the most part, they’re correct. There’s little infrastructure outside of those pathways. The occasional high school-only player will make it onto a college roster, but these cases are rare. In fact, if you look at those top few leagues, the players aren’t even allowed to play high school soccer.
Just from the MLS NEXT, ECNL National, and USL Academy systems, there are a total of 259 teams. Let’s say each team carries 20 players. That means the top three youth leagues in the nation have approximately 5,180. That number is very close to the total number of players in D1 soccer programs.
Playing college soccer is seen as a means of earning a degree while continuing the soccer dream. It attracts much of America’s top talent, as well as many international students who developed at top academies across the globe. When faced with the decision to play in the lowest professional ranks in their own country or come to the USA for school and soccer, a trip abroad has become a popular option.
I wanted to see how deep into their bench D1 programs were likely to go, so I filtered for games started (903 of the 1,192 players had listings for starts). Suddenly, our numbers were much closer. Of 8,176 total starts, 4,700 went to the American kids, 3,476 to internationals. Right away, the margin closes to 14%.
Apparently US colleges are a popular landing spot for international players so they can earn a degree. If the writer's number are accurate, it means that between the top three leagues and college combined, there is roughly 10,000 players available to the US soccer program to evaluate for the national team.
It seems almost inconceivable that out of a pool of ten thousand players the leadership of the US mens national team program cannot find a couple of competent scorers and creative play makers.
OP
OP
Zeno
Ancient
I think there is a strong preference among US Soccer for US Soccer Olympic Development Program and US Soccer Development Academies (which include MLS academies). When I used to referee I had done some DA games in the Chicago area, lots of talent and highly competitive. ODP has been around forever and used to be the feeder for the Bradenton USSF residency which closed 5 years ago.
Collegiate players have a longer and tougher road to get to the top, they have to get drafted out of college (or signed with a European side--which is even less likely) and then excel with MLS before ever getting a chance. This was the Dempsey path--Donovan on the other hand was identified early by US Soccer and went that path.
Here is an article with an interview of a US Soccer scout (kind of poorly written interview but some interesting stuff).
gosoccerpro.com
I thought this was interesting:
How do the players post-high school and out of the Academy years get on the radar for US Soccer and how are they tracked once they are on your radar?
Post high school and beyond academy years put the player at 18 years plus which is the time when many professional level players have already been signed through the pro clubs academy. Keep in mind that many professional players are being signed out of that particular clubs youth academy. To get on the US youth national team radar would best be served by playing in professional (reserve) teams. We cannot completely rule out that elite level collegiate soccer players do get drafted or signed after a year or two of college soccer. Once on the radar, they are tracked through the US soccer scouting network. This can take place live, and a bit more common now via video.
Is there any visibility advantage of a player who plays college soccer vs. a player who takes the route of club ball such as USL, MLS second team or even playing overseas in Europe?
The collegiate route to pro is not as much the main pathway like on the girls side. continuing development of professional academies in the US and teenage players being signed to professional contracts even before a player is of college age.
Collegiate players have a longer and tougher road to get to the top, they have to get drafted out of college (or signed with a European side--which is even less likely) and then excel with MLS before ever getting a chance. This was the Dempsey path--Donovan on the other hand was identified early by US Soccer and went that path.
Here is an article with an interview of a US Soccer scout (kind of poorly written interview but some interesting stuff).
How Do Players Get Scouted For US Soccer? - GoSoccerPro
Shawn Beyer, is a Talent ID Scout for the US Soccer Federation. He is also the Head coach at Soka University. You can learn more about him by visiting his LinkedIn page at Shawn Beyer. GoSoccerPro has received several questions from readers regarding how players, especially players who train...
gosoccerpro.com
I thought this was interesting:
How do the players post-high school and out of the Academy years get on the radar for US Soccer and how are they tracked once they are on your radar?
Post high school and beyond academy years put the player at 18 years plus which is the time when many professional level players have already been signed through the pro clubs academy. Keep in mind that many professional players are being signed out of that particular clubs youth academy. To get on the US youth national team radar would best be served by playing in professional (reserve) teams. We cannot completely rule out that elite level collegiate soccer players do get drafted or signed after a year or two of college soccer. Once on the radar, they are tracked through the US soccer scouting network. This can take place live, and a bit more common now via video.
Is there any visibility advantage of a player who plays college soccer vs. a player who takes the route of club ball such as USL, MLS second team or even playing overseas in Europe?
The collegiate route to pro is not as much the main pathway like on the girls side. continuing development of professional academies in the US and teenage players being signed to professional contracts even before a player is of college age.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Go Brazil (clinging on to a few bets lol, and Guimaraes is a Magpie) and go Oranje (because I've always liked them and have a half Dutch friend).
Yes, go Brazil, I cut my chops learning from a "A" licensed Brazilian coach so my coaching has always had a Brazilian flavor to it. I do like their style of play.
OP
OP
Zeno
Ancient
I guess I am in the minority, I want Croatia to win, Modric is a player I’ve always liked watching and after the heroics of their goalkeeper last shootout I have a soft spot for them.
MigratingOsprey
Thank You Paul!
There are a few teams I would be happy for - Portugal wouldn't be one of them
Chaplin
Better off silent
Neymar's goal was spectacular, but Brazil hasn't looked like the best in the world, that's for sure.
OP
OP
Zeno
Ancient
Because of Ronaldo? I think aside from him that team is enjoyable to watch.
OP
OP
Zeno
Ancient
Shoot out.
Pressure is on kickers and keeper both, I can only imagine the butterflies knowing the whole world is watching.
Pressure is on kickers and keeper both, I can only imagine the butterflies knowing the whole world is watching.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Wow. Brazil eliminated.
OP
OP
Zeno
Ancient
Croatia wins, they just have some magic in penalty kick shootouts.
Shocker!
So World:
#1 (Brazil)
#2 (Belgium)
#6 (Italy)
#7 (Spain)
All out.
#3 (Argentina) plays #8 (Netherlands)
#1 (Brazil)
#2 (Belgium)
#6 (Italy)
#7 (Spain)
All out.
#3 (Argentina) plays #8 (Netherlands)
Luciano
ASFN Lifer
I'm rooting for Croazia too. A country with 4 million people and they are always good.
Luciano
ASFN Lifer
Add Germany to the notable absents
MigratingOsprey
Thank You Paul!
I typically have been respectful/indifferent to Ronaldo - but the past few years and his actions this tournament don't exactly make me want to pull for the guy
I despise Pepe
Bruno Fernandes is a good player, he just annoys me.
I like Felix, Leao and a handful of other guys.
But they have Pepe and they kept Italy out of the tournament - so they will get no love
