2023-24 Around the NBA Thread

[Mainstreet]

Do you know how many teams are trying to simultaneously do the same thing?! Only a handful ever get to the point of drafting their big two and Murray was pure luck and a result of pick swap in the 2011 trade at the #7 spot. You do realize how often a pick outside the top 3 is statistically a larger crap shoot? You just described every team in the NBA and a tactic the Suns have tried multiple times in it's history. It's possible but the vast majority fail and the vast majority don't home grow their big two into superstars. I think it has to be a balance of both to be sustainable. Most teams just can't hit year after year on their draft picks do just do it through the draft.

The Suns were very close with Booker, Bridges and Ayton. Then they added Chris Paul via trade.

It got them to the Finals and a 64 win season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So you still saw CP3 as one of our two best players this season?

And I agree, there's almost no chance we could have won it with Booker and CP3 as our two best players. But IMO Bridges was already far more important than Chris and we had the assets to trade for another key player - not at Durant's level but when healthy we'd been one of the best teams in the league. It's unlikely we could have found the trade we needed at midseason so we may well have ended much as we did. But we wouldn't have been under the gun to fix everything overnight as we are now.

Great. And then Bridges would have had the opportunity to completely crap the bed again in the playoffs like he has every year, his value would have gone down, the team would have been thrown into the realm of also-rans.

And yet we wouldn’t still be under the gun? We would have watched this nucleus fail three straight times, likely with worse return on investment in three straight seasons. I think that absolutely would have put them under the gun.

How did the Nuggets get there? They drafted their players.

The Suns were following the same path nicely, even added a star in Chris Paul, until the front office decided they couldn't wait for our young players to develop.

You keep beating on this drum that the suns had what the Nuggets did and blew it up while completely ignoring that our 1-2 punch of Book/Bridges pales in comparison to what the Nuggets have built around.

For starters, Booker just isn’t near the same level player as Jokic. And that’s not a slight on Book. He’s fantastic. But Jokic is an 2-Time MVP, All Time Unicorn Superstar who dominates in three different ways every night. So, we don’t have one of those.

Second, you say Bridges was our second Star to build around like Murray, completely ignoring that Bridges doesn’t have near the impact Murray does, as Murray can not only score but also run the offense as a secondary playmaker. And even all that ignores that Murray is able to completely elevate his game to become one of the best players in the league when the lights shine brightest in the playoffs as opposed to Bridges, who has underperformed in every playoffs he’s be in and embarassingly so at crucial junctures when he completely disappears.

So, basically you wanted us to build the way the Nuggets built themselves despite not having anything close to the ingredients the Nuggets used.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Suns were very close with Booker, Bridges and Ayton. Then they added Chris Paul via trade.

It got them to the Finals and a 64 win season.

Yeah… when CP3 was an MVP CANDIDATE.

He’s nothing CLOSE to that anymore which is why our situation isn’t remotely close to the Nuggets.

CP3/Book was something to build around because both players were 1b type superstars. Book/Bridges is NOT even close to that tandem to build around.

I’m so stupid for getting back involved in this debate.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Suns were very close with Booker, Bridges and Ayton. Then they added Chris Paul via trade.

It got them to the Finals and a 64 win season.

Close in a year full of freak injuries which was followed up by teams in the West making huge moves while the Suns stayed put. Unlike Denver, we have the bulk of our salary tied up in our #1 (Booker), an old unreliable Paul, and commited to an under performing center.

They seemingly hit on Joker and Murray. We hit on Booker and Booker doesn't have the same impact as Joker and we had nobody close to how Murray is playing right now until we acquired Durant. One of these things is not like the other.

 

[Mainstreet]

Close in a year full of freak injuries which was followed up by teams in the West making huge moves while the Suns stayed put. Unlike Denver, we have the bulk of our salary tied up in our #1 (Booker), an old unreliable Paul, and commited to an under performing center.

One of these things is not like the other. They seemingly hit on Joker and Murray. We hit on Booker and Booker doesn't have the same impact as Joker.

I like the way Denver has built their team. We are likely to see more of it with the new CBA. I think the Suns were on the same path before last season's trade deadline.

Remember the Suns in four.

 

[Covert Rain]

I like the way Denver has built their team. We are likely to see more of it with the new CBA. I think the Suns were on the same path before last season's trade deadline.

Remember the Suns in four.

I remember the Suns losing 4 straight and the disaster that followed the next playoffs. Then following up a record regular season being barely over .500 the following season before the KD trade. IMO, the Suns were on a path to being a good team with early playoff exits each year.

 

[Mainstreet]

I remember the Suns losing 4 straight and the disaster that followed the next playoffs. Then following up a record regular season being barely over .500 the following season before the KD trade. IMO, the Suns were on a path to being a good team with early playoff exits each year.

Being a 50 win team is not a bad thing with a chance to contend every season. It only takes some luck, a trade and no injuries.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I like the way Denver has built their team. We are likely to see more of it with the new CBA. I think the Suns were on the same path before last season's trade deadline.

How? Joker/Murray towers over a Booker/Bridges 1-2 punch. So how were we on the path when we didn’t have one of the league’s all time best players, multiple MVPs or a 2nd star we could depend on in the playoffs?

Remember the Suns in four.

Remember the Nuggets DIDNT HAVE MURRAY AND the Suns don’t have MVP level CP3 anymore… or even All-Star level CP3 anymore.

Ignoring these actual facts create such specious arguments.

 

[Covert Rain]

Being a 50 win team is not a bad thing with a chance to contend every season. It only takes some luck, a trade and no injuries.

Being a 50 win team and having a chance to win a title are not the same thing. The Suns are living proof. They have done it 21 times and how many finals appearances did that result in?

 

[Yuma]

This new CBA is turning the NBA into the NFL. Some teams have an advantage when their QB is still on his rookie contract. I am guessing development and scouting will separate the top teams now. You will still need good stars at the top, but now you have to fill with vet minimums, rookie contracts (hopefully second rounders), and G league and international scouting. It's going to be how do you fill out those 3-8 spots on the roster. Anyone can fill the back end of the bench. It's those guys that are going to see high playoff minutes you will have to scout. Your top two, that will still be an arms race. You need two guys at the top everyone wants to play with, to get those 3-8 guys to come to your city.

 

[elindholm]

NGL CP3 and Lebron kinda scares me.

Why, are you their insurance carrier?

 

[Mainstreet]

Being a 50 win team and having a chance to win a title are not the same thing. The Suns are living proof. They have done it 21 times and how many finals appearances did that result in?

The Suns have had breakthrough opportunities throughout the years but it never quite came together.

However, if a team can consistently put themselves in position to win, there is always a chance. It's about everything coming together at the right time.

It nearly happened in the 2020-21 season. I wish James Jones had realized how close that team was.

 

[elindholm]

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I think I found my new ringtone.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Suns have had breakthrough opportunities throughout the years but it never quite came together.

However, if a team can consistently put themselves in position to win it all, there is always a chance. It's about everything coming together at the right time.

It nearly happened in the 2020-21 season. I wish James Jones had realized how close that team was.

The Suns have only been a legit threat for the title a handful of times despite having a good to great record several times. Point being this team has fielded more good teams that I can recall. It's not good enough. We have been there done that. Ishbia is the right owner because I think he knows you need to do both (draft and make moves) to be a consistent LEGIT threat to win a title in the NBA.

 

[Hoop Head]

Being a 50 win team and having a chance to win a title are not the same thing. The Suns are living proof. They have done it 21 times and how many finals appearances did that result in?

Tell me how many teams won less than 50 games and won a title. This logic is flawed. There's 30 teams competing for a title every year and roughly 10 of them win 50 games, 9 of those 10 wont win a championship. So claiming the only way to win is by taking a big risk like the Suns did doesn't add up.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns have only been a legit threat for the title a handful of times despite having a good to great record several times. Point being this team has fielded more good teams that I can recall. It's not good enough. We have been there done that. Ishbia is the right owner because I think he knows you need to do both (draft and make moves) to be a consistent LEGIT threat to win a title in the NBA.

I wish Mat Ishbia was the Suns owner in the earlier years. Then an owner could buy a championship, not anymore.

 

[Covert Rain]

Tell me how many teams won less than 50 games and won a title. This logic is flawed. There's 30 teams competing for a title every year and roughly 10 of them win 50 games, 9 of those 10 wont win a championship. So claiming the only way to win is by taking a big risk like the Suns did doesn't add up.

I didn't put the 50 threshold out there and not sure if you get what I am saying. I don't think setting a 50 game threshold is a measurement of being a title contender.

 

[Mainstreet]

I didn't put the 50 threshold out there and not sure if you get what I am saying. I don't think setting a 50 game threshold is a measurement of being a title contender.

Numbers can be arbitrary but a team has to be good to win 50 or more games.

 

[Covert Rain]

Numbers can be arbitrary but a team has to be good to win 50 or more games.

Yes but I didn't equate good teams to being legit title teams. We have fielded a ton of good teams that were not title contenders.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yes but I didn't equate good teams to being legit title teams. We have fielded a ton of good teams that were not title contenders.

Okay, who would have thought the Lakers would have made it to the WCFs and saw the Heat playing in the Finals.

 

[Phrazbit]

I remember the Suns losing 4 straight and the disaster that followed the next playoffs. Then following up a record regular season being barely over .500 the following season before the KD trade. IMO, the Suns were on a path to being a good team with early playoff exits each year.

That is the worst case scenario. We were bombarded by injuries and the team actually played better than the KD Suns when healthy... they also had a myriad of paths to pursue to improve.

Our current path seems undeniably worse. If we have a similar level of injuries strike (which is now more likely because KD is extremely injury prone), our lack of depth will make even making the playoffs a real struggle.

 

[Phrazbit]

CP3/Book was something to build around because both players were 1b type superstars. Book/Bridges is NOT even close to that tandem to build around.

And Durant isn't anything to build around because he's old and misses half the year.

You guys keep making it sound like there was only one option. If we don't trade for KD there are a myriad of options to improve the roster.

 

[Covert Rain]

Okay, who would have thought the Lakers would have made it to the WCFs and saw the Heat playing in the Finals.

The Lakers are a great example of mixing drafting and acquisition. Which team has a larger legacy in the NBA? They don't sit idle waiting for the team to build just through the draft and they don't sit around being satisfied with just good teams.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Lakers is a great example of mixing drafting and aquisition. Which team has a larger legacy in the NBA? They don't sit idle waiting for the team to build just through the draft and they don't sit around being satisfied with just good teams.

The Lakers are in a major media market and can consistently attract stars.

I'd like for the Suns to get there, but I'm not going to presume they are there until they prove it over time.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Lakers are a great example of mixing drafting and acquisition. Which team has a larger legacy in the NBA? They don't sit idle waiting for the team to build just through the draft and they don't sit around being satisfied with just good teams.

No one is saying we had to sit idle either. Going all in on a 35 year old who is oft injured isn't something teams do to push them to contention. When the Lakers gave up a similar haul they got back a 26 year who was a top 10 player in the league about to enter his prime. Big difference.