2023 3rd round pick #72 is Garrett Williams CB

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Josh McCown ended up having one of the best careers of any QB in the last 20 years

Longest?

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Josh McCown ended up having one of the best careers of any QB in the last 20 years

I'm actually fascinated by Josh McCown's career.

Josh McCown's career earnings? $52,000,000.

Good for #53 all time in terms of QBs. Just ahead of Dan Marino.

 

[Fitz4Ever]

Longest?

I would say one of the best. He just kept getting brought in...and would usually end up starting and playing pretty well. He is similar to Ryan Fitzpatrick in a way. People will not include him in a "best QB of the last 20 years" conversation...but they should. First off...list the QB's with 17 straight years of making an active roster. Then...factor in guys that actually won games as a backup/spot starter...and McCown is clearly ahead of some of the "flash in the pan" starting QB's that strong together 1 or 2 good years.

McCown played for 17 years...and from 2011-2017 he was the best backup QB in football.

I think he will end up being a really good coach someday if he chooses that path. He got better with age because he mastered the mental side of the game.

 

[QuebecCard]

I would say one of the best. He just kept getting brought in...and would usually end up starting and playing pretty well. He is similar to Ryan Fitzpatrick in a way. People will not include him in a "best QB of the last 20 years" conversation...but they should. First off...list the QB's with 17 straight years of making an active roster. Then...factor in guys that actually won games as a backup/spot starter...and McCown is clearly ahead of some of the "flash in the pan" starting QB's that strong together 1 or 2 good years.

McCown played for 17 years...and from 2011-2017 he was the best backup QB in football.

I think he will end up being a really good coach someday if he chooses that path. He got better with age because he mastered the mental side of the game.

On February 10, 2023, McCown was hired by the Carolina Panthers as their quarterbacks coach under head coach Frank Reich.

 

[kerouac9]

I would say one of the best. He just kept getting brought in...and would usually end up starting and playing pretty well. He is similar to Ryan Fitzpatrick in a way. People will not include him in a "best QB of the last 20 years" conversation...but they should. First off...list the QB's with 17 straight years of making an active roster. Then...factor in guys that actually won games as a backup/spot starter...and McCown is clearly ahead of some of the "flash in the pan" starting QB's that strong together 1 or 2 good years.

McCown played for 17 years...and from 2011-2017 he was the best backup QB in football.

I think he will end up being a really good coach someday if he chooses that path. He got better with age because he mastered the mental side of the game.

He was supposed to be the HC of the Houston Texans for the past two years but he didn't have any coaching experience.

Putting a QB who was 23-53 as a starter into a conversation of the best QBs of the past 20 years is pretty deranged. He was 1-10 as a starter for the Bucs.

 

[Fitz4Ever]

He was supposed to be the HC of the Houston Texans for the past two years but he didn't have any coaching experience.

Putting a QB who was 23-53 as a starter into a conversation of the best QBs of the past 20 years is pretty deranged. He was 1-10 as a starter for the Bucs.

You gotta look at in the grand scheme of things.

Lets say every NFL team keeps 3 QBs....Josh McCown managed to hold onto one of the 100 most difficult, competitive jobs in sports....for 17 straight years. Just on pure longevity, he is in the top 0.0001% of people to EVER pick up a football.

Then you factor in that he got better with age, and there were teams wanting to turn to a 40 year old McCown over a younger player. I think if you took most QBs and said "you are going to start 76 games in your career, win less than 1/3 of them, and throw less than 100 TD passes....you would be talking about a big time bust who was out of the league after his first contract....not a guy who showed enough toughness and grit to play for 17 years.

 

[kerouac9]

You gotta look at in the grand scheme of things.

Lets say every NFL team keeps 3 QBs....Josh McCown managed to hold onto one of the 100 most difficult, competitive jobs in sports....for 17 straight years. Just on pure longevity, he is in the top 0.0001% of people to EVER pick up a football.

Then you factor in that he got better with age, and there were teams wanting to turn to a 40 year old McCown over a younger player. I think if you took most QBs and said "you are going to start 76 games in your career, win less than 1/3 of them, and throw less than 100 TD passes....you would be talking about a big time bust who was out of the league after his first contract....not a guy who showed enough toughness and grit to play for 17 years.

Is this a sarcastic post then? All pro athletes are exceptionally talented.

I mean, if your list of the best QBs of the past 20 years is like 70 names long, yeah, Josh McCown might be on it. But its unclear how much grit McCown had to really show to appear in that 2019 season with the Jets where he attempted five passes in three games.

Colt McCoy is on the eve of his 13th season in the NFL. He didn't even have to take a detour to the Hartford Colonials of the USFL like McCown did.

 

[Fitz4Ever]

Is this a sarcastic post then? All pro athletes are exceptionally talented.

I mean, if your list of the best QBs of the past 20 years is like 70 names long, yeah, Josh McCown might be on it. But its unclear how much grit McCown had to really show to appear in that 2019 season with the Jets where he attempted five passes in three games.

Colt McCoy is on the eve of his 13th season in the NFL. He didn't even have to take a detour to the Hartford Colonials of the USFL like McCown did.

You just made my point....give me 69 QB's in the last 20 years better than McCown. You can't.

I think if we really went through and made that list, McCown would end up in the 30's or 40's....which is pretty good!

 

[ajcardfan]

Is this a sarcastic post then? All pro athletes are exceptionally talented.

I mean, if your list of the best QBs of the past 20 years is like 70 names long, yeah, Josh McCown might be on it. But its unclear how much grit McCown had to really show to appear in that 2019 season with the Jets where he attempted five passes in three games.

Colt McCoy is on the eve of his 13th season in the NFL. He didn't even have to take a detour to the Hartford Colonials of the USFL like McCown did.

McCown was much more physically gifted than Colt. He had a great arm as a young player. The brain eventually caught up for him and he had a excellent career..

 

[Stout]

McCown was much more physically gifted than Colt. He had a great arm as a young player. The brain eventually caught up for him and he had a excellent career..

...as a backup. He was never a quality starter. He had an excellent career, all things considered.

 

[kerouac9]

You just made my point....give me 69 QB's in the last 20 years better than McCown. You can't.

I think if we really went through and made that list, McCown would end up in the 30's or 40's....which is pretty good!

Who was better: Jay Cutler or Josh McCown?

 

[kerouac9]

McCown was much more physically gifted than Colt. He had a great arm as a young player. The brain eventually caught up for him and he had a excellent career..

I don't understand how capacious some people's definitions of "excellence" is. Yes, he had a better career as an NFL QB than I did.

But like Chad Henne and Chase Daniel have 10+ year careers in the NFL where they do little if anything. Neither was better than Cam Newton.

 

[ajcardfan]

I don't understand how capacious some people's definitions of "excellence" is. Yes, he had a better career as an NFL QB than I did.

But like Chad Henne and Chase Daniel have 10+ year careers in the NFL where they do little if anything. Neither was better than Cam Newton.

Eighteen years, $48 million dollars. That is doing very well. I know that isn't much by starting NFL QB standards, but he worked it. $2.6 million a year on average is not chump change. Plus, most guys are out within three years. Everyone here mostly thought he was a bum and that only the Cardinals were stupid enough to start him and he would be out of the leauge sooner rather than later. But, he lasted a long time.

Obviously, he was not fantastic. But, he started 76 games in his career and Daniel and Henne won't come close to sniffing that. I guess I admire his tenacity more than anything.

 

[kerouac9]

Eighteen years, $48 million dollars. That is doing very well. I know that isn't much by starting NFL QB standards, but he worked it. $2.6 million a year on average is not chump change. Plus, most guys are out within three years. Everyone here mostly thought he was a bum and that only the Cardinals were stupid enough to start him and he would be out of the leauge sooner rather than later. But, he lasted a long time.

Obviously, he was not fantastic. But, he started 76 games in his career and Daniel and Henne won't come close to sniffing that. I guess I admire his tenacity more than anything.

Chad Henne has already started 54 games. Chase Daniel has started five (LOL).

Again, congrats to Josh McCown for starting more NFL games than the average fan. But that is not excellence. He is 30 games below .500 as an NFL starter. That is bum-level production.

 

[ajcardfan]

Chad Henne has already started 54 games. Chase Daniel has started five (LOL).

Again, congrats to Josh McCown for starting more NFL games than the average fan. But that is not excellence. He is 30 games below .500 as an NFL starter. That is bum-level production.

Ok. I don't really care about this topic that much. You win.

 

[QuebecCard]

Chad Henne has already started 54 games. Chase Daniel has started five (LOL).

Again, congrats to Josh McCown for starting more NFL games than the average fan. But that is not excellence. He is 30 games below .500 as an NFL starter. That is bum-level production.

any

 

[PACardsFan]

Chad Henne has already started 54 games. Chase Daniel has started five (LOL).

Again, congrats to Josh McCown for starting more NFL games than the average fan. But that is not excellence. He is 30 games below .500 as an NFL starter. That is bum-level production.

I can’t believe that people are arguing with K9 over this lol. McCown may end up being a good coach at some point, but he was mostly a well below average NFL QB. Have to agree 100% with K-9 on this.

 

[Fitz4Ever]

I say McCown is a top 40 QB of the last 2 decades...and he was better than Cutler.

 

[kerouac9]

I say McCown is a top 40 QB of the last 2 decades...and he was better than Cutler.

Who's better: Josh McCown or Matt Stafford?

 

[Fitz4Ever]

Who's better: Josh McCown or Matt Stafford?

Stafford. He won a SB and I think took the lions to the playoffs.

 

[Fitz4Ever]

How about McCown or Nick Foles?

 

[kerouac9]

How about McCown or Nick Foles?

Foles

 

[kerouac9]

It's kind of a bummer that Williams' friends and family are looking around seeing what the fans are saying about the selection, and they're going to discover two jamokes going back and forth about who the best 40 QBs of the past 20 years are.

BUT!

Brady
Brees
Manning
Rodgers
Phil Rivers
Matt Ryan
Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Russell Wilson
Matt Stafford
Carson Palmer
Cam Newton
Donovan McNabb
Joe Flacco
Alex Smith

Those are all the QBs on PFR's top all-time AV list from the past 20 years. It's interesting that Kurt Warner doesn't even appear on PRFs AV leaders. That's 15.

 

[kerouac9]

While I don't love PFR's Approximate Value metric, it's a good baseline for a discussion like this, which combines minor contributions to a team (which being a second or third QB would provide) with long periods of time. McCown's AV is 40. His career comps are Mark Wilson, Mike Tomczak, Mike Livingston, and Mike Phipps. I've heard of one of those guys.

Matt Cassel's AV is 47.
Jay Cutler's is 86.
Nick Foles's is 32 (hilariously, his AV in the year he lead the Eagles to the Super Bowl is 2, but the year he went 4-7 as a starter for the Rams (a thing that apparently happened) was 3).
Derek Carr's is 82.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Did I want to trade down from 3? Or from 1 if we didn't win that last game?

I would have wanted Peyton, but not Eli. Shows what I know.

Eli would’ve been a bum with us imo and Warner would’ve then stayed with the Giants and won a ring with them while Eli got murdered behind our line.