2023 Phoenix Suns Offseason

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The other side of the coin is the old saying, "The best ability is availability!" We swept Denver without Murray in the playoffs. With Murray, we didn't fare too well. I love Bridges, but I think, let's wait and see when Bridges plays a few more seasons where he is at.

You know murray and bridges are the same age, right?

 

[AzStevenCal]

I love that everyone on your side of the argument consistently, and purposefully, neglects to address the elephant in the room:

Bridges shrinks in the playoffs
Murray rises in the playoffs

Which player do you think contenders would value more? No contest.

I think the narrative of Mikal shrinking or collapsing in the playoffs is overstated. He's been blamed for a lot of things that were out of his control. Posters blasted him repeatedly for failing to lock down the other team's best scorer while ignoring the fact that the other team was picking him off so they could get CP3 or someone else on the guy. And our defense is designed around constant switching.

But yes, to date Mikal has been less successful in the postseason vs regular season. And Murray has been a better postseason player than a regular season player. And that's a valid point on his side and if he continues as he has the past three games, it could well flip the two as far as trade value is concerned. Although I still think the advantage Mikal has on defense, availability and salary makes it arguable.

 

[TRW]

I hope that whatever guy they hire NEVER utters the "I didn't have them prepared." excuse, ESPECIALLY after a PLAYOFF loss. Even if it's true it shouldn't be uttered. Monty and KK said words to that effect quite often and I hate it.
I'd rather hear an honest "They kicked our ass." than that.

 

[Proximo]

I think the narrative of Mikal shrinking or collapsing in the playoffs is overstated. He's been blamed for a lot of things that were out of his control. Posters blasted him repeatedly for failing to lock down the other team's best scorer while ignoring the fact that the other team was picking him off so they could get CP3 or someone else on the guy. And our defense is designed around constant switching.

But yes, to date Mikal has been less successful in the postseason vs regular season. And Murray has been a better postseason player than a regular season player. And that's a valid point on his side and if he continues as he has the past three games, it could well flip the two as far as trade value is concerned. Although I still think the advantage Mikal has on defense, availability and salary makes it arguable.

It's BS is what it is.

He played quite well in the playoffs with the Nets, and everyone disappeared last year, it's not like it was just Mikal.

The idea anyone locks up anyone in the NBA today is completely ridiculous. The rules make that all but impossible. What star has been locked up in any playoff series this year?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I hope that whatever guy they hire NEVER utters the "I didn't have them prepared." excuse, ESPECIALLY after a PLAYOFF loss. Even if it's true it shouldn't be uttered. Monty and KK said words to that effect quite often and I hate it.
I'd rather hear an honest "They kicked our ass." than that.

AMEN

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's BS is what it is.

He played quite well in the playoffs with the Nets, and everyone disappeared last year, it's not like it was just Mikal.

The idea anyone locks up anyone in the NBA today is completely ridiculous. The rules make that all but impossible. What star has been locked up in any playoff series this year?

Y’all are moving the goalposts in regard to bridges defense. No one on this board has considered bridges a lockdown one-on-one defender for a long time. His defensive prowess was much more as a tenacious team defender. It’s THAT aspect of his defense that fell off considerably this year. Arguing about lockdown defender is a strawman argument to deselect from the fact that he faltered on his calling card this year.

 

[Yuma]

You know murray and bridges are the same age, right?

Murray 2016 draft, Bridges 2018 draft.

 

[Yuma]

Y’all are moving the goalposts in regard to bridges defense. No one on this board has considered bridges a lockdown one-on-one defender for a long time. His defensive prowess was much more as a tenacious team defender. It’s THAT aspect of his defense that fell off considerably this year. Arguing about lockdown defender is a strawman argument to deselect from the fact that he faltered on his calling card this year.

Let's just say Bridges plays better defense than Murray.

 

[Mainstreet]

Let's just say Bridges plays better defense than Murray.

Again, with the Suns switching on defense under Monty, it dilutes the idea of a lockdown defender.

 

[Yuma]

Again, with the Suns switching on defense under Monty, it dilutes the idea of a lockdown defender.

Not saying he's lock down. Let's just simplify the comparison between Murray and Bridges, and give Bridges the nod as a better defender between the two.

 

[95pro]

Again, with the Suns switching on defense under Monty, it dilutes the idea of a lockdown defender.

I could be wrong but I think we didn't switch as much with Green as our assistant coach, and this was when Bridges got put on the map as a defender. Green leaves, Bridges defense drops because of so much switching? I think our team defense was better too before this year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's BS is what it is.

He played quite well in the playoffs with the Nets, and everyone disappeared last year, it's not like it was just Mikal.

The idea anyone locks up anyone in the NBA today is completely ridiculous. The rules make that all but impossible. What star has been locked up in any playoff series this year?

Bridges
20-21 reg:54/43/84, 4.3reb, 2.1ass, 1.1steals, 0.9block, 13.5pts
20-21 p’offs: 48/37/89, 4.3reb, 1.6ass, 1.0 steals, 0.7block, 11.1pts

Literally worse in every category other than rebounds (same) and free throw %.

21-22 reg:53/37/83, 4.2reb, 2.3ass, 1.2steals, 0.4block, 14.2pts
21-22 p’offs: 48/39/93, 4.7reb, 2.8ass, 1.1steals, 1.0block, 13.3pts

FG% and points dropped. Slight increases or constant in other areas.

22-23 (w/ nets) reg:48/38/89, 4.5reb, 2.7ass, 1.0steals, 0.6block, 26.1pts
22-23 (w/ nets) p’offs: 43/40/88, 5.3reb, 4.0ass, 0.5 steals, 0.5block, 23.5pts

Kept it to time with nets to keep apples to apples. Substantial drop in FG%, steals and points. Rise in rebounds and assists.

No doubt generally plays worse in playoffs.

Murray

18-19 reg:44/37/85, 4.3reb, 4.8ass, 0.9steals, 0.4block, 18.2pts
18-19 p’offs: 43/34/90, 4.4reb, 4.7ass, 1.0 steals, 0.1block, 21.3pts

Pretty constant across all areas raising scoring 3pts/game

19-20 reg:46/35/88, 4.0reb, 4.8ass, 1.1steals, 0.3block, 18.5pts
19-20 p’offs: 51/45/90, 4.8reb, 6.6ass, 0.9 steals, 0.3block, 26.5pts

Pretty big jumps across the board other than steals and blocks which stay static.

22-23 reg:45/40/83, 4.0reb, 6.2ass, 1.0steals, 0.2block, 20.0pts
22-23 p’offs: 47/41/93, 5.6reb, 6.2ass, 1.6steals, 0.3block, 27.9pts

Increase in in all shooting stats, rebounds, steals and big jump in pts

Guys, the bridges drop compared to the murray elevation in playoffs is real. It’s substantial, and even the regular season counting stats point in favor of murray. Defense and bridges attendance record pull it closer, but for two 26 year olds I restate: no brainer murray over bridges.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Murray 2016 draft, Bridges 2018 draft.

And both 26 years old.

 

[Mainstreet]

I could be wrong but I think we didn't switch as much with Green as our assistant coach, and this was when Bridges got put on the map as a defender. Green leaves, Bridges defense drops because of so much switching? I think our team defense was better too before this year.

I don't remember the Suns switching as much under Willie Green but that may be because it's been awhile.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I could be wrong but I think we didn't switch as much with Green as our assistant coach, and this was when Bridges got put on the map as a defender. Green leaves, Bridges defense drops because of so much switching? I think our team defense was better too before this year.

Why would bridges defense drop because of switching? Our team defense should drop, but bridges still has to guard whomever he’s guarding. He was not as impactful this year defensively. No question about that.

 

[Yuma]

And both 26 years old.

Just saying Murray has two more years experience and development.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's BS is what it is.

He played quite well in the playoffs with the Nets, and everyone disappeared last year, it's not like it was just Mikal.

Come on man. A lot of us watched those games and there’s also box scores to back up the fact that the above simply isn’t anything close to being true.

Mikal Bridges Playoffs Game Log | Basketball-Reference.com

Playoffs Game Log for Mikal Bridges

www.basketball-reference.com

He played a great first half in Game 1. Then disappeared in the second half en route to them getting killed.

In Games 2, 3 and 4 he shot 6/15, 9/25 and 6/18. That is a HUMILIATING performance. Shooting 36% from the field in the last 3 games is playing quite well? And if you add in the second half of Game 1 it’s an even more humiliating 27% for 3.5 of the 4 games. I mean… the idea that he played well has no basis in reality. And he did nothing on defense en route to the team getting swept even with Embiid out injured.

And yes… everyone disappeared the second half of the Dallas series but Bridges was one of those leading the charge shooting 5/14, 3/9, 6/13, 2/7, 3/11 while getting DESTROYED on defense. Another stellar 37% shooting performance over those last five games.

and again, once punched in the mouth, Mr. Front Runner responded with pretty good performances of 4 points, 7 points, 13 points and 7 points while getting destroyed again by Middleton helping contribute to a 2-0 collapse in the Finals.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm still puzzled by why fans are locked onto the Murray vs Bridges comparison. I see no reason for it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Just saying Murray has two more years experience and development.

When a guy has been in the league for as many years as bridges I don’t think you’re looking for development much anymore can they improve? Sure. But it’s much more around the edges.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm still puzzled by why fans are locked onto the Murray vs Bridges comparison. I see no reason for it.

Mostly because you kept making the point that the Suns should have followed the Denver model of adding to the team building around Booker/Bridges while completely ignoring that the Nuggets didn’t get to this level simply by “adding to the team”.

What actually happened was Denver had a do EVERYTHING 2 Time MVP level player (Booker as great as he is, just isn’t comparable to how Jokić can dominate scoring, assisting and rebounding) and they didn’t add someone else… they GOT BACK their second star who’s an offensive dynamo that elevates his game to really impressive heights in the playoffs, as opposed to what you wanted, which was build around Booker/Bridges as our 1/2 where neither guy matches the corresponding impact of Denver’s 1/2 punch and Bridges has an ugly playoff history of falling off the map.

 

[elindholm]

Mostly because you kept making the point that the Suns should have followed the Denver model of adding to the team building around Booker/Bridges while completely ignoring that the Nuggets didn’t get to this level simply by “adding to the team”.

What actually happened was Denver had a do EVERYTHING 2 Time MVP level player (Booker as great as he is, just isn’t comparable to how Jokić can dominate scoring, assisting and rebounding) and they didn’t add someone else… they GOT BACK their second star who’s an offensive dynamo that elevates his game to really impressive heights in the playoffs, as opposed to what you wanted, which was build around Booker/Bridges as our 1/2 where neither guy matches the corresponding impact of Denver’s 1/2 punch and Bridges has an ugly playoff history of falling off the map.

What I want to know is where was this analysis, from the board in general, four to six weeks ago, when the consensus was that Denver was harmless and that the Suns would make quick work of them if they happened to match up.

 

[Bufalay]

Doesn’t matter if you have all the talent in the world if you refuse to use/maximize it.

Sabonis in his total garbage playoff run averaged 16/11/5… versus the much ballyhooed “Dominayton” 2021 run in the playoffs… 16/11/1.

So Sabonis’ garbage = Ayton’s peak. And I think that playoff run is over-hyped. The only reason it stands out is because Ayton was actually consistent for three straight series… a stretch we just RARELY see, sprinkled with a couple of eye-popping performances before no-showing against the Bucks.

And at least Sabonis tried in his series where he sucked this year instead of quitting the last two years.

Ayton's advanced stats in the 2021 playoffs were much better than sabonis' in 2023. (check ws/48 and BPM).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2021_advanced.html

2023 NBA Playoffs Stats: Advanced | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the Results, Statistics, Playoff Leaders, Per Game Stats, Advanced Stats and more for the 2023 NBA playoffs on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

 

[Cheesebeef]

What I want to know is where was this analysis, from the board in general, four to six weeks ago, when the consensus was that Denver was harmless and that the Suns would make quick work of them if they happened to match up.

I was never one of those people. I consistently questioned the bizarre idea that "Denver was afraid" of us when that argument would be made.

But also, we hadn't seen more of the evidence proving the glaring difference in playoff performance between Bridges, who crapped the bed again in the playoffs and Murray, who backed up his previous dynamic performance last time he was healthy.

 

[Proximo]

Gambo is saying the real Dallas deal is Hardaway, McGee, and Bullock. Says they are even unwilling to give up Maxi Kleeber in a deal, and there is no chance you can get the #10 pick.

I know he has a contact in Dallas so that is not good news.

 

[Proximo]

Gambo says Gordon Heyword, #27 and Mark Williams might be a better real type deal that is available.