2024 1st round pick #4 is Marvin Harrison Jr

[SoonerLou]

But something DID change with Larry. Todd Haley came in and kicked his ass according to Haley, Warner and even Larry himself. Haley made him realize that he was coasting on natural talent and not doing everything he could do to be the best. That changed in 2007 and he never looked back.

I never assumed Fitz would be a YAC guy. Was wonderful to see him add that to his game.

 

[GatorAZ]

It's also a different era -- Larry's rookie season was 20 years ago. Just five QBs passed for over 4k yards in 2004 (including Jake Plummer!!). Mushin Muhammad won the reception title with 1405 yards; Tony Gonzalez had the most receptions in the league with 102. Chad Johnson had the most targets with 170 (seven players had 150+ targets).

Last year 10 players passed for over 4k yards. Tyreek Hill had yearly 1800 yards receiving; CeeDee Lamb had the most receptions with 135 and the most targets with 181. Ten players had 150+ targets. Malik Nabers was on pace for over 200 targets.

Larry was also 20 when he was drafted because of that weird prep school quirp when he was growing up and only played two years in college. Larry was more than a full year younger his rookie season than Marv is right now. Physically Larry looked and moved like a different guy his 2nd year.

 

[oaken1]

But something DID change with Larry. Todd Haley came in and kicked his ass according to Haley, Warner and even Larry himself. Haley made him realize that he was coasting on natural talent and not doing everything he could do to be the best. That changed in 2007 and he never looked back.

I remember, I personally did not want to sign Larry to a fat contract because he ran poopy routes... I was mad when he got his deal. But when the games started he looked better, and mentioned in an interview that he had put a lot of extra work into his routes... was ever a Larry supporter after that.

 

[Chopper0080]

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Several factors in this. Some Petzing, some Kyler and some Marv.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If MHJ puts up 1200 yards his rookie season I would be pretty happy with that.

Especially since 2018 the Cardinals have only had One 1000 yard receiver (Hopkins 2020).

Except he’s only on a pace for 948.6. He would have jump his 55 yards per game up to 76 yards per game over the final 12 games to reach 1200 for the season. Doable, but likely? Not with what we’ve seen thus far. I guess if we remove the first game as an outlier he may project to end up around 1100 for the season. But last game he only had 2 catches, so was game 1 that big of an outlier? I’d like to think so, but in this office?

 

[kerouac9]

Except he’s only on a pace for 948.6. He would have jump his 55 yards per game up to 76 yards per game over the final 12 games to reach 1200 for the season. Doable, but likely? Not with what we’ve seen thus far. I guess if we remove the first game as an outlier he may project to end up around 1100 for the season. But last game he only had 2 catches, so was game 1 that big of an outlier? I’d like to think so, but in this office?

It’s just a low-volume passing offense. We’re 26th in attempts; 24th in yards.

 

[oaken1]

Except he’s only on a pace for 948.6. He would have jump his 55 yards per game up to 76 yards per game over the final 12 games to reach 1200 for the season. Doable, but likely? Not with what we’ve seen thus far. I guess if we remove the first game as an outlier he may project to end up around 1100 for the season. But last game he only had 2 catches, so was game 1 that big of an outlier? I’d like to think so, but in this office?

I dunno man... I'm pretty stoked Marv is tracking for 950...that's an excellent rookie season... not legendary, but certainly nothing for anyone Cardinals related to have negative feelings about

 

[Russ Smith]

It’s just a low-volume passing offense. We’re 26th in attempts; 24th in yards.

It is and I don't know how accurate these separation stats are but that's at least the 2nd time in 5 games he was near the bottom of the league in separation. Maybe it's because of this "Cloud" coverage we're seeing, I hope so. But right now between that and contested catches, it seems like he's just not getting open as much as we expected he would?

 

[Chopper0080]

It’s just a low-volume passing offense. We’re 26th in attempts; 24th in yards.

For comparison to Larry's rookie year (in which Boldin did not play the full season)

2004 stats.

Pass attempts per game. 33.31
Pass yards per game. 200.125
Fitz had 780 yards. Most on the team. 24.3% of total receiving yards.

2024 stats.

Pass attempts per game. 27.6
Pass yards per game. 194.4
MHJ has 279 yards. Most on the team. 28.7% of total receiving yards.

 

[Chopper0080]

It is and I don't know how accurate these separation stats are but that's at least the 2nd time in 5 games he was near the bottom of the league in separation. Maybe it's because of this "Cloud" coverage we're seeing, I hope so. But right now between that and contested catches, it seems like he's just not getting open as much as we expected he would?

The separation stats are misleading as there are too many other factors. Panthers wide receivers were worst in the NFL in generating separation until Andy Dalton became the starting QB. After that, they were no longer worst in the NFL in generating separation. The WRs didn't change. Same dudes.

 

[SECTION 11]

Why do 4 games when Marv has played 5?

First 5 for Chase 23 for 439 yards 5 TD, Marv is 17 279 and 4 TD. Again it's good but well behind Chase. I'm not going to bother to look at the others.

Marv has played 5 games, 1 great one, 2 good ones 1 almost invisible. The best thing yesterday was he didn't sulk, game on the line made the 4th down catch.

He's got to be more consistent though he had almost as many yards in the first quarter against the Rams as he's had the entire rest of the season.

We should just compare the first time they all played the Rams.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

So, you are going to be like Kyler honks. Noted.

No chance of that. If he stinks, I’ll say so.
But 4 games in when he’s transferred to the NFL, I’m not begrudging the guy.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

My point is, most rookies are going to struggle. They’re facing much better DBs, learning how to be a NFL player, learning how to read pro defenses, and adjusting to the speed.

Marvin has been very good when you consider all that and has had similar numbers to the leagues best as a rookie.

There aren’t too many rookie guys who come in and dominate. Especially when they’re the #1 option.

His work ethic and talent will make him great. Just like the others.

That’s why I said this thread is stupid after 4 games.

I used 4 because that’s what they had stats for.

 

[Proteus]

I dunno man... I'm pretty stoked Marv is tracking for 950...that's an excellent rookie season... not legendary, but certainly nothing for anyone Cardinals related to have negative feelings about

Is it excellent for someone who was described as the best wide receiver prospect in years though?

 

[Proteus]

It is and I don't know how accurate these separation stats are but that's at least the 2nd time in 5 games he was near the bottom of the league in separation. Maybe it's because of this "Cloud" coverage we're seeing, I hope so. But right now between that and contested catches, it seems like he's just not getting open as much as we expected he would?

According to an Espn Analytics table I found, MHJ is 34th out of 72 listed receivers in terms of being open:

NFL Receiver Scores - ESPN Analytics

Models and data visualization from ESPN Analytics. NBA & NFL Draft, schedule analysis, receiver scores and more.

espnanalytics.com

 

[oaken1]

Is it excellent for someone who was described as the best wide receiver prospect in years though?

Yes it is.
Assuming of course one knows the meaning of the word "Prospect"

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Marv certainly hasn't been impressive thus far either, but if our very own HoF receiver wasn't all that impressive as a rookie I don't think we need to worry too much about Marv at the moment.

Larry had to grow up and change his style quite a bit. That’s not a given with every receiver.

 

[Shane]

The kid is on pace for 1000 yards and 13 TDs not sure what the problem is or why people are calling him out. But he does need to quit dropping passes right in his hand. Thats not an adjusting to the NFL problem it is a concentration problem pure and simple.

 

[TheCardFan]

The kid is on pace for 1000 yards and 13 TDs not sure what the problem is or why people are calling him out. But he does need to quit dropping passes right in his hand. Thats not an adjusting to the NFL problem it is a concentration problem pure and simple.

This is why he is getting called out.

 

[CardNots]

I remember, I personally did not want to sign Larry to a fat contract because he ran poopy routes... I was mad when he got his deal. But when the games started he looked better, and mentioned in an interview that he had put a lot of extra work into his routes... was ever a Larry supporter after that.

With Fitz it was about those amazing hands. I was always stunned when he dropped a pass.

In addition, Larry became a very good blocking WR. Last but not least, he was a smart football player.

MHJ has a big jock strap to fill…

 

[Russ Smith]

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The first part is interesting, about 5:30 or so they start talking about MHJ. Wilson is clearly high on him talks him up but he says he thinks the reason the catches to targets ratio isn't higher is because MHJ is playing the X position. He said when Hollywood got hurt last year, I moved to the X and I found out how different it is, you don't get the high percentage plays you get more 1 on 1 fifty fifty balls it's the design of the position. He said Kyler is going to throw you balls that other QB's might not throw to you because he's putting trust in you to go get the ball. He said I had to get used to that last year and I think Marv is still getting used to it too. I think he's made some great catches and as the season goes on you'll start to see that % get higher.

There's another one where Frank Sanders surprised me. The play where on the game thread we all said Kyler led Marv too much over the middle and that's why the play was incomplete. Frank said it was actually a good throw it's just that Marv isn't used to the NFL yet. in the NFL the QB is supposed to protect the receiver over the middle so you lead him away from the defender, which is what Kyler did. But Marv came out of the break thinking he was open and actually sort of rounded off the route towards Kyler instead of "running through". He said if he comes out of the break and cuts straight across he probably catches that, but his first step was towards Kyler and then when he realized where the ball was going he had to reach and couldn't get it. Frank said in college you're often so open you don't have to learn that nuance, he's going to place the ball away from the defender so he can't break it up, so you have to run through to where the ball is going.


Like everyone else on the game thread I said that was an inaccurate throw.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

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The first part is interesting, about 5:30 or so they start talking about MHJ. Wilson is clearly high on him talks him up but he says he thinks the reason the catches to targets ratio isn't higher is because MHJ is playing the X position. He said when Hollywood got hurt last year, I moved to the X and I found out how different it is, you don't get the high percentage plays you get more 1 on 1 fifty fifty balls it's the design of the position. He said Kyler is going to throw you balls that other QB's might not throw to you because he's putting trust in you to go get the ball. He said I had to get used to that last year and I think Marv is still getting used to it too. I think he's made some great catches and as the season goes on you'll start to see that % get higher.

There's another one where Frank Sanders surprised me. The play where on the game thread we all said Kyler led Marv too much over the middle and that's why the play was incomplete. Frank said it was actually a good throw it's just that Marv isn't used to the NFL yet. in the NFL the QB is supposed to protect the receiver over the middle so you lead him away from the defender, which is what Kyler did. But Marv came out of the break thinking he was open and actually sort of rounded off the route towards Kyler instead of "running through". He said if he comes out of the break and cuts straight across he probably catches that, but his first step was towards Kyler and then when he realized where the ball was going he had to reach and couldn't get it. Frank said in college you're often so open you don't have to learn that nuance, he's going to place the ball away from the defender so he can't break it up, so you have to run through to where the ball is going.


Like everyone else on the game thread I said that was an inaccurate throw.

I can appreciate this intelligent insite but i also dont know why we cant accept theres a possibility the dude just isnt verg good. WR has the highest bust rate by percentage of any position and i think we have all learned by now, the draft is a crapshoot. Wouldnt surprise me at all if michael wilson is the better wide out.

Blew my mind from the beginning people anointed MHJ is a great receiever and maybe were just all making excuses?

Give me the guy who didnt grow up rich with a dad who killed people

 

[Shane]

I can appreciate this intelligent insite but i also dont know why we cant accept theres a possibility the dude just isnt verg good. WR has the highest bust rate by percentage of any position and i think we have all learned by now, the draft is a crapshoot. Wouldnt surprise me at all if michael wilson is the better wide out.

Blew my mind from the beginning people anointed MHJ is a great receiever and maybe were just all making excuses?

Give me the guy who didnt grow up rich with a dad who killed people

This has got to be a blatant troll job.

 

[Russ Smith]

I can appreciate this intelligent insite but i also dont know why we cant accept theres a possibility the dude just isnt verg good. WR has the highest bust rate by percentage of any position and i think we have all learned by now, the draft is a crapshoot. Wouldnt surprise me at all if michael wilson is the better wide out.

Blew my mind from the beginning people anointed MHJ is a great receiever and maybe were just all making excuses?

Give me the guy who didnt grow up rich with a dad who killed people

I think the list of not very good WR's who have 4 TD's in their first 5 NFL games while playing the #1 Wr spot is pretty small.

He hasn't been as good overall as I expected, but remember he could have had a TD in the Buffalo game too if Kyler hadn't looked away just as he was popping open. So he absolutely CAN get open deep, he just has to be more consistent.

 

[football karma]

the Cards posted a vid of all 100 of Kylers TD throws.

a few things stood out--

one being that if Fitz or Hop were in 1v1 coverage near the endzone -- regardless of if they looked open or not-- Kyler put it on them and asked them to make a play.

This is the kind of throw that Marvin needs to be way more aggressive getting. Its also the kind of play that you see bigger X wrs make with regularity across the NFL.

If Marv just catches 50% of those throws -- he has an extra 80 yards in receiving today and another TD