2024 Free Agency thread

[Krangodnzr]

Why would it not be smart to win 9 or 10 games?

Because the Cardinals need to build sustainable success, not Keim success building with old veterans.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Fuller will be released first.

Lol at this new trend.

 

[Mulli]

Lol at this new trend.

Haha

 

[Mulli]

Because the Cardinals need to build sustainable success, not Keim success building with old veterans.

"process over results"

Gannon

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Just a reminder about the historical success rate of signing Big Johns. I originally posted this back in September based on these articles by Mike Sando in the Athletic. Sando listed the top 11 free agent signings of 2022 and 2023 by APY.

I'd say the majority of teams deeply regret these deals. Status column is mine, based on info in the article and updates I made today:

2022 :

Rank	Player	Signed By	APY	Status
1	Von Miller	BUF	$20M	missed 11 games; zero stats in 2023
2	Christian Kirk	JAC	$18M
3	Chandler Jones	LV	$17M	went off the deep end, cut
4	J.C. Jackson	LAC	$16.5M	traded -> NE, then cut
5	Brandon Scherff	JAC	$16.5M
6	Allen Robinson	LAR	$15.5M	traded -> PIT, then cut
7	Terron Armstead	NO	$15M	Pro Bowler
8	Haason Reddick	PHI	$15M	Pro Bowler
9	Foyesade Oluokun	JAC	$15M	literally never heard of him but OK
10	Marcus Williams	BAL	$14M	injured; missed 11 games
11	Za'Darius Smith	MIN	$14M	traded -> CLE

18% Pro Bowlers, 27% starters, 18% suffered major injuries, 36% bust/traded/cut by the signing team.

2023 (ditto):

Rank	Player	Signed By	APY	Status
1	Derrick Carr	NO	$37.5M	underperformed
2	Jimmy Garoppolo	LV	$24.25M	6 games, 77.7 passer rating, 33.9 QBR, injured, cut
3	Javon Hargrave	SF	$21M	Pro Bowl
4	Jawaan Taylor	KC	$20M	underperformed
5	Tremaine Edmunds	CHI	$18M	underperformed
6	Mike McGlinchey	DEN	$17.5M
7	Dre'Mont Jones	SEA	$17.2M
8	Orlando Brown Jr.	CIN	$16M
9	Jessie Bates III	ATL	$16M	Pro Bowl
10	Zach Allen	DEN	$15.9M	underperformed
11	Odell Beckham Jr.	BAL	$15M	13 games, 565 yards, 3 TDs, cut

18% Pro Bowlers, 27% decent starters, 36% underperforming starters, 18% cut.

I think you need to remove injuries from the equation altogether (both numerator and denominator) bc it has nothing to do with whether they were worth the value of the signing. It’s a random outcome that can impact any player acquired in any manner. We don’t look at the number of players drafted that are injured to determine if we should rely upon the draft. Or the number injured that came via trades to determine whether we should engage in trades.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Teams sign bad and washed up players all of the time. The Cardinals once though D'Anthony Baptiste belonged on a roster.

Your logic is flawed on so many levels.

You know you're losing a football argument when you turn to PFF.

Dude you gotta stop using him as an example. It’s killing your credibility. Now you’re comparing a never was dreg minimum (or close thereto) to an accomplished player that was signed to a multi year legit nfl contract. Cmon man.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

add Pro bowlers and decent starters for positive and the others as negative and you are sitting right at 50/50

Better than 50-50 when you remove injured.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's not just PFF - there are plenty of sources that think Fuller was one of the best available on the market. I can guarantee you that if Fuller were signed by the Cards, you'd be touting it as a genius move. Can't take you seriously on the subject, especially with your nonsense about "Antonio Hamilton was better". Just hilarious stuff.

Lol. This. So this.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Cool story. The numbers say otherwise

I see your second favorite logical fallacy is appeal to authority just after strawman.

It just goes to show how silly a list is when they rank a guy high who was gave up a higher passer rating than Clark and Hamilton.

It's completely relevant. Maybe the relevance buzzes right past your head. Just being on an NFL roster doesn't make you a good player. Just because you got signed to a big contract it doesn't mean that you are any good.

Fuller has a long history of solid play, but he was dog poo last year

Neato and he got less total money than SMB.

Eh I tend to look at passer rating allowed on DBs. I wouldn't have been happy with Fuller.

Men lie, women lie, numbers don't. He sucked bro. If you had a defense that all gave up what Fuller gave up, you'd probably have a historically bad defense.

You’re going to have to quote a post of yours in which you slammed the organization for a big free agent signing before I believe you would’ve criticized a fuller signing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You could argue the flip side that the Cardinals were unlucky to win 4 games. It's a dumb concept that doesn't actually exist. You are your record.

Earlier in this thread you said you considered this a 7 win team.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Or a reload or a reset?

Those are two different things.

 

[Mulli]

Those are two different things.

Noted

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Because the Cardinals need to build sustainable success, not Keim success building with old veterans.

Imo the only reason we didn’t have sustainable success in either keim playoff era was the age of our qb. If you’ve got that and a good coach you can keep doing what keim did.

 

[Chopper0080]

Because the Cardinals need to build sustainable success, not Keim success building with old veterans.

It doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. You can do both.

 

[Chopper0080]

I feel like the Keim experience has warped some views of how teams can use trades and/or FA to help build a solid roster.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Imo the only reason we didn’t have sustainable success in either keim playoff era was the age of our qb. If you’ve got that and a good coach you can keep doing what keim did.

The Cardinals didn't have sustainable success because BA prefered a veteran team. That 2017 team had the oldest roster in the NFL and it got old fast by the end of the season. I believe that was a reason BA was fine leaving the Cardinals. The Cardinals went all in one time too many and the cupboards were left bare afterwards.

 

[Mulli]

The Cardinals didn't have sustainable success because BA prefered a veteran team. That 2017 team had the oldest roster in the NFL and it got old fast by the end of the season. I believe that was a reason BA was fine leaving the Cardinals. The Cardinals went all in one time too many and the cupboards were left bare afterwards.

Was Andy Isabella older than DK Metcalf? That is what I would like to know.

 

[Chopper0080]

The Cardinals didn't have sustainable success because BA prefered a veteran team. That 2017 team had the oldest roster in the NFL and it got old fast by the end of the season. I believe that was a reason BA was fine leaving the Cardinals. The Cardinals went all in one time too many and the cupboards were left bare afterwards.

The Cardinals didn't have sustainable success because Keim couldn't draft NFL players and seems to have been a bad person. It's not like the Cardinals let young players walk to have success elsewhere in favor of old vets. Maybe you can argue Reddick, but I feel that was a lack of communication and a bad practice of drafting players to play other positions from what they played in college/hybrids.

 

[MadCardDisease]

The Cardinals didn't have sustainable success because Keim couldn't draft NFL players and seems to have been a bad person. It's not like the Cardinals let young players walk to have success elsewhere in favor of old vets. Maybe you can argue Reddick, but I feel that was a lack of communication and a bad practice of drafting players to play other positions from what they played in college/hybrids.

Yes Keims inability to draft good players also played into it. Hence why the Oldest team in the league had no one to turn to when their stars all got old and were put out to pasture.

 

[Chopper0080]

The example of a great use of FA could be.

Wilkins 4 yrs, 27.5 mil.
Nichols 3 yrs, 7 mil.

You have Stills who has 3 yrs left. Avg 993k.
You draft Kris Jenkins with a day 2 pick. 4 yr term. Avg 2.15 (if I use Ojulari's 2nd round contract from last year as a guide.

Not factoring in contract structure because that is manipulated by the team, your DT spending in this scenario for these four players is 37.643 mil. That would put us 8th highest in the league for 2024. Ideally, by the time Nichols contract is up, Stills has won the starting job. Same with Jenkins from Wilkins 4yrs in the future. At that time, you are now the organization like the Ravens who is re-signing their own FAs instead of other team's.

 

[Chopper0080]

Yes Keims inability to draft good players also played into it. Hence why the Oldest team in the league had no one to turn to when their stars all got old and were put out to pasture.

Yes, but if those picks had been NFL caliber players, they would have had players to turn to. However, that doesn't mean FA isn't important, older FAs are a trap, and/or signing vets hinders long term success.

Signing 31 year old Jadeveon Clowney doesn't hurt the Cardinals as a standalone move. What hurts the Cardinals is if they sign Clowney, Ojulari is a bust, and they don't have any drafted EDGE players who can replace him.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Hmm Chris makes a good point. In your opinion this was a 7-10 team last year if kyler wasn’t hurt. This season kyler isn’t hurt. Wouldn’t you expect a 7-10 team to try to make the leap to playoff team?

With a good draft, I think this team can win 7 games.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Dude you gotta stop using him as an example. It’s killing your credibility. Now you’re comparing a never was dreg minimum (or close thereto) to an accomplished player that was signed to a multi year legit nfl contract. Cmon man.

LOL.

Reading comprehension fail.

I'm saying that just because he is on a roster or was signed to a contract doesn't mean he's good. I'm not comparing the two. Go back and read it again. I was using Baptiste as evidence that just because a player is on a roster, it doesn't mean they are good.

The counting stats for Fuller were comparable to rookie year Marco Wilson. That's how bad he was.

 

[Mulli]

Is Marco Wilson available?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The counting stats for Fuller were comparable to rookie year Marco Wilson. That's how bad he was.

He was so bad, he was signed to a multi year deal, and nearly EVERY FA list had him as one of the top corners. You gotta touch some grass here, your comparison of a guy like Fuller to Marco Wilson and Ham is beyond absurd.