2024 Free Agency thread

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

With a good draft, I think this team can win 7 games.

With a good draft I’d say 7-9 wins

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

With a good draft, I think this team can win 7 games.

With a good draft I’d say 7-9

LOL.

Reading comprehension fail.

I'm saying that just because he is on a roster or was signed to a contract doesn't mean he's good. I'm not comparing the two. Go back and read it again. I was using Baptiste as evidence that just because a player is on a roster, it doesn't mean they are good.

The counting stats for Fuller were comparable to rookie year Marco Wilson. That's how bad he was.

I’d argue usage fail. If baptiste isn’t a comp for fuller then he has no place in the convo.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't slam anybody, but I have pointed out meh free agents in the past. I owe you nothing in this regard.

You owe me nothing, it’s just your credibility for objectivity at stake.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This is around what I think they can do, but it all depends on what happens with the division.

This is interesting. Based on the fact you thought the cards would’ve won 3 more of the first 8 games pre-kyler return I would think you believed last seasons squad, with full year of kyler, would have the talent of a 7 win team. If you think 7 wins is a reasonable projection for this year it means you think the draft and new free agents won’t move the needle even a single game.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ok Tito Paul! The position isn't germane to the point that even bad players stick around.

Fuller has an objectively bad year, even though he has had a pretty good career overall.

I'm not spending money on a guy who is nearing the end of his career and is coming off a bad season. When things go bad for CBs, they generally don't get better.

With a good draft I’d say 7-9

I’d argue usage fail. If baptiste isn’t a comp for fuller then he has no place in the convo.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This is interesting. Based on the fact you thought the cards would’ve won 3 more of the first 8 games pre-kyler return I would think you believed last seasons squad, with full year of kyler, would have the talent of a 7 win team. If you think 7 wins is a reasonable projection for this year it means you think the draft and new free agents won’t move the needle even a single game.

Being stuck in the middle of the NFL takes a bit of talent to get out of. With Murray, I think the Cardinals range last year was between 5-8 wins. Losing record but still better. I tend to agree with @kerouac9 statement that it isn't to hard to get to 7ish wins. It's either gross incompetence or you have to try to be bad. Look at the moribund Falcons, they had back-to-back 7 win seasons and they seemed worse than that.

I'm pretty cautious with records though. Don't want to get my hopes too high. Last year I thought they could pull off 5 wins because of Murray's absence, but they underperformed record wise.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Fuller has an objectively bad year, even though he has had a pretty good career overall.

NO HE DIDN'T. Just because you keep repeating he did, doesn't make it so. Maybe you should rely on some people that actually watched him play vs. your ridiculously limited set of data. How many games did you actually watch him play?

https://www.si.com/nfl/commanders/news/commanders-re-sign-kendall-fuller-free-agency-rumors

Commanders CB Kendall Fuller named to PFF's NFL First-Quarter All-Pro Team

Fuller is the only Washington player to make the list.

commanderswire.usatoday.com

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article286742850.html

Per Next Gen Stats, Fuller forced a tight window on 48.0 percent of his targets in man coverage last season. That’s fourth-best in the NFL among cornerbacks who faced at least 20 targets.

Did Fuller do something to you personally, other than sign for another team?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This is entirely incorrect. It has everything to do with whether a player is worth the value of a huge contract. The fact that it's difficult to predict doesn't change that fact.

But if players acquired via the draft suffer long-term injuries, they don't saddle the team with huge salary cap burdens.

The fact is that of the top 11 FA's added in the last 2 years, 6/11 each year utterly failed to be worth it.

Even if you remove the injured players from the numerator and denominator, you get 4/20 Pro Bowlers, 6/20 decent starters, and 10/20 underperforming / traded / cut!

My point is, those who have been clamoring for making a "splash" in FA should be aware that of the top 22 FA acquisitions over the last 2 years, only 20% turned out to be Big Johns.

Hmm I get what you’re saying but I think it’s somewhat faulty reasoning. Cap space’s only value is to be used in talent acquisition. Draft picks are similarly only ultimately valuable in talent acquisition. One could argue that a high draft pick is akin to a large chunk of salary cap space as they can be used better, more talented, talent acquisition. The talent acquired in either fashion can be derailed by random injury. And just like that injury eats up valuable cap space, so does the injury rob you of the valuable draft capital spent on the injured player. In fact, one could argue injury may be even more impactful on draftees as you don’t get back that spent draft pick, but eventually you do regain the cap space once the contract/dead capspace expires.

I would also argue for a talent deficient team a “decent starter” should be considered a “big John” (I can’t believe that phrase has been adopted by the board - curse you stout!). And if the removal of injuries net you 50% big John’s that’s a much higher success rate than the draft.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

A player the Cards should look at that fits the mold Monti has been signing is Mike Danna from the Chiefs.

Played 74% of snaps on the Edge last year and had 6.5 sacks (PFF says 8 as I think they count half sacks). Had 24 pressures, 50 tackles and 3 batted passes.

Played 2000 snaps for the Chiefs the last 4 years, still only 26. Should be cheap. Has got better every year and still ascending.

Chiefs fans love Danna and want him back. Markus Golden type player.

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Good target!

 

[Shane]

Hmm I get what you’re saying but I think it’s somewhat faulty reasoning. Cap space’s only value is to be used in talent acquisition. Draft picks are similarly only ultimately valuable in talent acquisition. One could argue that a high draft pick is akin to a large chunk of salary cap space as they can be used better, more talented, talent acquisition. The talent acquired in either fashion can be derailed by random injury. And just like that injury eats up valuable cap space, so does the injury rob you of the valuable draft capital spent on the injured player. In fact, one could argue injury may be even more impactful on draftees as you don’t get back that spent draft pick, but eventually you do regain the cap space once the contract/dead capspace expires.

I would also argue for a talent deficient team a “decent starter” should be considered a “big John” (I can’t believe that phrase has been adopted by the board - curse you stout!). And if the removal of injuries net you 50% big John’s that’s a much higher success rate than the draft.

I think that term has been adopted by like 4 people the main one being stout and it’s dumb lol

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So you think the Cards were a 7-win team if Kyler's healthy all last year, and this year with free agency, another draft, and guys like PJJ and Ojulari with another candle on the cake, you also think they're a 7-win team? As a ceiling?

Okay.

Borg

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ok Tito Paul! The position isn't germane to the point that even bad players stick around.

Fuller has an objectively bad year, even though he has had a pretty good career overall.

I'm not spending money on a guy who is nearing the end of his career and is coming off a bad season. When things go bad for CBs, they generally don't get better.

But did Tito Paul ever garner the type of deal fuller did? If not, also not a good example.

 

[oaken1]

Hmm I get what you’re saying but I think it’s somewhat faulty reasoning. Cap space’s only value is to be used in talent acquisition. Draft picks are similarly only ultimately valuable in talent acquisition. One could argue that a high draft pick is akin to a large chunk of salary cap space as they can be used better, more talented, talent acquisition. The talent acquired in either fashion can be derailed by random injury. And just like that injury eats up valuable cap space, so does the injury rob you of the valuable draft capital spent on the injured player. In fact, one could argue injury may be even more impactful on draftees as you don’t get back that spent draft pick, but eventually you do regain the cap space once the contract/dead capspace expires.

I would also argue for a talent deficient team a “decent starter” should be considered a “big John” (I can’t believe that phrase has been adopted by the board - curse you stout!). And if the removal of injuries net you 50% big John’s that’s a much higher success rate than the draft.

That's why you don't use those valuable high draft picks on talent with serious injury histories

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think that term has been adopted by like 4 people the main one being stout and it’s dumb lol

The fact that non-stouts have started using it causes me considerably angst.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's why you don't use those valuable high draft picks on talent with serious injury histories

But you could argue the same for free agents. Don’t spend high on talent with injury histories.

 

[kerouac9]

That's why you don't use those valuable high draft picks on talent with serious injury histories

Hey! Take a chance on us!

Signed,

BJ Ojulari
Garrett Williams
Michael Wilson
Rondale Moore
DJ Humphries
Troy Niklas

 

[daves]

From The Athletic today:

NFL Free Agency Tracker: Best players remaining

Yesterday, the Ravens officially lost three-fifths of their starting 2023 offensive line with G Kevin Zeitler joining the Lions. This comes after the departure of starters in LB Patrick Queen, S Geno Stone and WR Odell Beckham Jr.

But this second-wave of free agency is where Baltimore thrives. With the top players off the board, the best available options are typically had at a discount. Four positions still have notable depth:

Wide receiver: Mike Williams, Michael Gallup, Beckham Jr., Tyler Boyd, Michael Thomas, Hunter Renfrow and Josh Reynolds are all second or third options.

Edge rusher: Jadeveon Clowney had 9 1/2 sacks for the Ravens last year while on a steal of a $2.5 million deal. He’ll demand much more this offseason. Bud Dupree, Kyle Van Noy, Carl Lawson and Yannick Ngakoue round out the pass rushers available. The Eagles’ Haason Reddick may also be a trade option.

Cornerback: Four-time Pro Bowler Xavien Howard leads an aging but quality group that includes Stephon Gilmore, Steven Nelson, Adoree’ Jackson and Tre’Davious White.

Safety: Justin Simmons, a Broncos cap casualty who should have a strong market, leads a safety group with a talent level above the current demand. Other options: Kyle Duggar (transition tagged), Marcus Maye, Julian Blackmon, Tashaun Gipson Sr. and Quandre Diggs round out a position that feels like the next running back market. Cue the zoom meetings.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

From The Athletic today:

There’s a fair amount of talent still available.

 

[kerouac9]

There’s a fair amount of talent still available.

I dunno. None of those names really inspire me. The best free agents are likely the ones we’ve barely heard of.

 

[Chopper0080]

If I'm signing free agents as a team building towards being a playoff team, I'm not signing guys that are around 30 to multi year contracts.

I don't see why you wouldn't. Again, using Clowney. Signing him on a two year deal does nothing to hurt your roster but does make you competitive, quicker. It just can't be the only tool you use. Just like you can't only build through the draft, or only build through trades, or only sign guys who are stars. It takes a mix and a balance.

 

[Chopper0080]

Hmm I get what you’re saying but I think it’s somewhat faulty reasoning. Cap space’s only value is to be used in talent acquisition. Draft picks are similarly only ultimately valuable in talent acquisition. One could argue that a high draft pick is akin to a large chunk of salary cap space as they can be used better, more talented, talent acquisition. The talent acquired in either fashion can be derailed by random injury. And just like that injury eats up valuable cap space, so does the injury rob you of the valuable draft capital spent on the injured player. In fact, one could argue injury may be even more impactful on draftees as you don’t get back that spent draft pick, but eventually you do regain the cap space once the contract/dead capspace expires.

I would also argue for a talent deficient team a “decent starter” should be considered a “big John” (I can’t believe that phrase has been adopted by the board - curse you stout!). And if the removal of injuries net you 50% big John’s that’s a much higher success rate than the draft.

I refuse

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don't see why you wouldn't. Again, using Clowney. Signing him on a two year deal does nothing to hurt your roster but does make you competitive, quicker. It just can't be the only tool you use. Just like you can't only build through the draft, or only build through trades, or only sign guys who are stars. It takes a mix and a balance.

Clowney won't sign a multi year deal, he prefers one year deals, but I do see thats possible, I just don't think that's the approach that Monti is going to take.

 

[Chopper0080]

The fact that non-stouts have started using it causes me considerably angst.

Worst trend of 2024.

 

[kerouac9]

Clowney won't sign a multi year deal, he prefers one year deals

Citation needed here.

Even if it's a one-year deal that has a second voidable year, there's no question you're getting better faster.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Citation needed here.

Even if it's a one-year deal that has a second voidable year, there's no question you're getting better faster.

Heard it on a YouTube video the other day. Basically he likes the flexibility to bounce if the team situation isn't right.