49ers 27 Cardinals 13: Post Game Thoughts

[Russ Smith]

Stanford just re-signed Shaw to a lengthy extension.

The most interesting coach in the world these days to me is Chip Kelly---I would love to see him bite off Pete Carroll's kneecaps the way he did before Carroll split USC. Harbaugh had trouble with him too.

Chip Kelly is as competitive a coach as there is.

He will find a way to beat you...so help him.

Yep, even if he has to pay people to send him recruits from Texas.



Which is why he'll likely be in the NFL next season, get ahead of the sanctions.

 

[az240zz]

I don't understand why Crabtree wasn't doubled. Fitz is doubled every play, Crabtree has almost 3 times the amount of catches as any of the other 49r receivers on the filed. Yet I don't think they doubled him once.

 

[dylanbw]

Closer than expected---which is good. But the game stopped being competitive early into the second half...and the harsh reality of how far the Cardinals have fallen from contention in the NFC West sank in like the fog into the tide at San Francisco Bay.

I like what I saw in Brian Hoyer---but was leery to see that his first ten throws in each half were 10 yards or less. To his credit, he then went deep a few times to his favorite target Michael Floyd---with very good success, because by then the Niners were sitting on all the dinks and dunks...like everyone else does.

To this day---I do not have any understanding of why the coaches insist upon 2 yard passes to the TE. Another one of those 2 yard passes should have been intercepted today--and the others set up second or third and 8s.

I still don't understand why no matter who is the QB we can't even run a semblance of a screen pass.

Still don't understand why Williams Powell wasn't used more---

For that matter watching Senio Kelemete get his first taste of action---why has he been sitting through a 5-11 season gathering moth balls on the bench? Why?

Still do't understand how the coaches would elect to keep 4 TEs---one of whom did not play for weeks and weeks on end---and yet even after Skelton went down in the first game, and we all knew that Kolb was unfortunately one hit away from the IR---why a young QB like Brian Hoyer was sitting out there all this time (until PIT called him a few weeks ago)---and yet, no calls from the Cardinals with Jason Licht (of the Pats), as DOPP in the house to boot?

Don't understand why WE here at ASFN were crying out for the Cardinals to claim him during Labor Day weekend---and yet no such thing until Week 16.

Still don't understand how there is speculation that the HC will be retained after the following:

* 18-30 last three years

* losing streaks of 6, 7, and 9 games (Jim Harbaugh's biggest losing streak in SF in two years? One game. That's the competition folks---like it or not).

* 1-5 in the NFC West this year (last 5 games, not competitive, in fact the Cardinals lost to the Rams, 49ers and Seahawks by a combined 157-36).

* 3rd down conversions last 12 games?:

4-14 (STL)
5-16 (BUF)
1-10 (MIN)
2-14 (SF)
6-15 (GB)
2-16 (ATL)
4-13 (STL)
0-15 (NYJ)
2-12 (DET)
3-15 (CHI)
3-12 (SF)

32-142 (22.6%)

* interceptions the last 6 games: 9 (3 for TDs)

* TD passes the last 6 games: 1

Back to what happened today---

Don't understand how Patrick Peterson was so badly schooled by Michael Crabtree for two games in a row---or how Peterson could put up such a shabby effort after being named to the Pro Bowl.

Still don't understand how with Jay Feely every on-side kick is a penalty for off-sides or the ball not going 1o yards.

Glad to see the Cardinals clamp down some on Frank Gore for a half.

Glad to see William Gay make a great tackle.

Glad to see Justin Bethel busting his tail to try to block FGs and XPTs.

Glad to see Feely make his FGs.

Glad to see Zastudil add to the record.

Glad this difficult to watch season is over.

Mitch - your 3rd down conversion chart was missing the Seattle game. I am afraid to ask what the numbers were that game.

Your point on Hoyer is correct. It's as if CKW was like, "Oh the Steelers brought him in for a look? He must be decent let's check him out!" What the F took so long?

Same on Kelemete. Pretty solid overall. Why not give him a look sooner? His catch and run was a top 10 play in our pathetic season.

I really hope we clean house. It's hard to believe I have been rooting for this team for 30+ years. Why did I do this to myself???

 

[Mitch]

Mitch - your 3rd down conversion chart was missing the Seattle game. I am afraid to ask what the numbers were that game.

Your point on Hoyer is correct. It's as if CKW was like, "Oh the Steelers brought him in for a look? He must be decent let's check him out!" What the F took so long?

Same on Kelemete. Pretty solid overall. Why not give him a look sooner? His catch and run was a top 10 play in our pathetic season.

I really hope we clean house. It's hard to believe I have been rooting for this team for 30+ years. Why did I do this to myself???

I don't know what I am going to do if Whisenhunt and these offensive coaches get retained, Dylan. They've taken the fun out of watching Cardinal games---it's just such poor preparation...and week after week---year after year of it.

Amazingly---as awed as I was by Whisenhunt during the early good years, there were quirky things about him that always bothered me. For example, I cannot ever recall listening to a press conference of his where I came away feeling impressed---I always came away feeling frustrated---like I never felt there was anything real about the guy---it's like everything he says is canned.

As much as I am leery of Rex Ryan---I would rather have him as the head coach (if there were only two choices) because at least he acts human. At least he shows his heart---his passion---and at times his humility---he will say that the team sucked and admit that so did the coaching.

Whisenhunt is as cold and colorless as stainless steel.

I know this may not be correct---but I would be willing to bet that you and I have lost more sleep the last three years over what's happened to the Cardinals than Whisenhunt.

Right now---if I had to bet---I bet you that he feels like he's in a win-win situation---the Bidwills stick with him, fine. They allow him to play golf for a year at $5.5M, just as well. And for the way he coached at times this year, one could make a strong case that he was actually begging for it.

 

[AZ Native]

I don't know what I am going to do if Whisenhunt and these offensive coaches get retained, Dylan. They've taken the fun out of watching Cardinal games---it's just such poor preparation...and week after week---year after year of it.

Amazingly---as awed as I was by Whisenhunt during the early good years, there were quirky things about him that always bothered me. For example, I cannot ever recall listening to a press conference of his where I came away feeling impressed---I always came away feeling frustrated---like I never felt there was anything real about the guy---it's like everything he says is canned.

As much as I am leery of Rex Ryan---I would rather have him as the head coach (if there were only two choices) because at least he acts human. At least he shows his heart---his passion---and at times his humility---he will say that the team sucked and admit that so did the coaching.

Whisenhunt is as cold and colorless as stainless steel.

I know this may not be correct---but I would be willing to bet that you and I have lost more sleep the last three years over what's happened to the Cardinals than Whisenhunt.

Right now---if I had to bet---I bet you that he feels like he's in a win-win situation---the Bidwills stick with him, fine. They allow him to play golf for a year at $5.5M, just as well. And for the way he coached at times this year, one could make a strong case that he was actually begging for it.

So if you are all knowing, why don't they offer the HC job to you. Then we all can tell you what an idiot you are. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Then you can see what it is like to be the HC. I know I will enjoy it

 

[dylanbw]

Right now---if I had to bet---I bet you that he feels like he's in a win-win situation---the Bidwills stick with him, fine. They allow him to play golf for a year at $5.5M, just as well. And for the way he coached at times this year, one could make a strong case that he was actually begging for it.

When CKW sent out Lindley for the 2nd half vs the Jets, that was the definition of "begging for it". That really was unforgivable. The D was playing their asses off, and our best offense all day was a fake punt.

How anyone could want CKW to eturn is beyond my compehension. I will be eternally grateful for whatever percentage of credit should go his way for the SuperBowl run, but that glow has long since faded. Sadly, we all know he may return for financial reasons.

 

[Mitch]

When CKW sent out Lindley for the 2nd half vs the Jets, that was the definition of "begging for it". That really was unforgivable. The D was playing their asses off, and our best offense all day was a fake punt.

How anyone could want CKW to eturn is beyond my compehension. I will be eternally grateful for whatever percentage of credit should go his way for the SuperBowl run, but that glow has long since faded. Sadly, we all know he may return for financial reasons.

Agree with you all the way.

Add too---at the most nicely surprising moment of the season since beating the Patriots---up 13-3 at Atlanta---to decide that was the best time to make a change at the QB position was about as strange a move as there is---sure it would have been one thing if Skelton was throwing interceptions---but the team had all the momentum---and was loving it---and then suddenly there's a rookie at QB who had never taken a snap in an NFL game. Our players were still thinking playoffs going into that game---a win puts them at 5-5 and right in the thick of it. The defense forces 7 turnovers---5 Matt Ryan interceptions---and the team still loses. Unfathomable.

 

[desertdawg]

Agree with you all the way.

Add too---at the most nicely surprising moment of the season since beating the Patriots---up 13-3 at Atlanta---to decide that was the best time to make a change at the QB position was about as strange a move as there is---sure it would have been one thing if Skelton was throwing interceptions---but the team had all the momentum---and was loving it---and then suddenly there's a rookie at QB who had never taken a snap in an NFL game. Our players were still thinking playoffs going into that game---a win puts them at 5-5 and right in the thick of it. The defense forces 7 turnovers---5 Matt Ryan interceptions---and the team still loses. Unfathomable.

And yet Whiz will be here next year. Beanie, Dockett, WiPo, Kolb, Hoyer...probably not. With Beanies pricetag for 2013, only the stubborness named Whiz would prevent him from being on our roster. If Whiz can find a better runningback for the same money, I will be shocked. I will be even more shocked if he actually runs said runningback.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Brian Kelly would not have the impact on NFL players the way Chip Kelly will.

Brian Kelly is an old-schooler---Chip Kelly is new wave.

This I agree with. Brian Kelly should stick to college where he has full automnity. His act wouldn't last very long in the NFL.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't understand why Crabtree wasn't doubled. Fitz is doubled every play, Crabtree has almost 3 times the amount of catches as any of the other 49r receivers on the filed. Yet I don't think they doubled him once.

Because the 49ers spread the ball around to everyone--Vernon Davis, the backs, Crabtree, Moss, even Jenkins got a couple of targets today. The Cards force-feed Fitz to get him more targets than anyone in the NFL with the most disappointing results.

Daryl Washington had a rough game today and didn't do much to make anyone think that he deserved to go to the Pro Bowl--much less start. 0 Sacks in December doesn't really make your case, and he was actively picked on by San Francisco.

Colin Kaepernick may not be the real deal, but he could be real enough to get the 49ers deep into the playoffs. It was interesting to see the side-by-side on Kaep vs. Smith. 2.25 PPG and just a handful of yards. Maybe Kaep has more upside, but he hasn't been around the NFL yet, either.

Harbaugh and his staff are playing chess; Whis, as good as he is, and his guys looked like they were playing checkers out there. Harbaugh might be the best coach in the NFL.

 

[gmabel830]

Stanford just re-signed Shaw to a lengthy extension.

The most interesting coach in the world these days to me is Chip Kelly---I would love to see him bite off Pete Carroll's kneecaps the way he did before Carroll split USC. Harbaugh had trouble with him too.

Chip Kelly is as competitive a coach as there is.

He will find a way to beat you...so help him.

Chip Kelly walked right past me last night (we had our wedding reception at the resort where Oregon is staying for the Fiesta Bowl)... my wife and I were shocked at how short he was. Not saying anything about his coaching abilities, just shocked that he was a tiny little man. Unfortunately, we were all lined up for our grand entrance and he was on the phone, so couldn't get a photo -- but we did get several photos with some Oregon players -- who were all extremely nice and very well behaved. We never did find the Duck mascot anywhere -- that's the picture we really wanted!

 

[desertdawg]

Because the 49ers spread the ball around to everyone--Vernon Davis, the backs, Crabtree, Moss, even Jenkins got a couple of targets today. The Cards force-feed Fitz to get him more targets than anyone in the NFL with the most disappointing results.

Daryl Washington had a rough game today and didn't do much to make anyone think that he deserved to go to the Pro Bowl--much less start. 0 Sacks in December doesn't really make your case, and he was actively picked on by San Francisco.

Colin Kaepernick may not be the real deal, but he could be real enough to get the 49ers deep into the playoffs. It was interesting to see the side-by-side on Kaep vs. Smith. 2.25 PPG and just a handful of yards. Maybe Kaep has more upside, but he hasn't been around the NFL yet, either.

Harbaugh and his staff are playing chess; Whis, as good as he is, and his guys looked like they were playing checkers out there. Harbaugh might be the best coach in the NFL.

That's what I saw. Harbaugh went from making Smith into servicable, and then promoted Kape after Smith got them deep last year. Harbaugh builds QB confidence like I build clouds. I don't think he is the best in the NFL, but he might be soon. Whiz's offensive game looked like crap after the niners figured it out. If Hoyer had already been trained to throw to Fitz reguardless of the 5 guys around him, it would have been worse.

 

[Catfish]

Still do't understand how the coaches would elect to keep 4 TEs---one of whom did not play for weeks and weeks on end---and yet even after Skelton went down in the first game, and we all knew that Kolb was unfortunately one hit away from the IR---why a young QB like Brian Hoyer was sitting out there all this time (until PIT called him a few weeks ago)---and yet, no calls from the Cardinals with Jason Licht (of the Pats), as DOPP Glad to see Zastudil add to the record.

Mitch, Until something new is done with hiring a GM, or reducing Whiz' powers, (which could happen as early as Monday), Whiz still has the final say on personnel by virtue of his contract renewal. If you recall, Whiz flexed his muscles in the organization immediately after getting the renewal signed by dumping Leinart. This despite having named him the starter over D-Wrek to that point. It has been Whiz' habit to either dump a player who he is finished with, (Leinart); or to bench them, (James until the SB run, Q after his expressed disappointment that he would not get a chance to get Fitz money); or simply ignore them, (Heap for the bulk of the 2012 season). There is also a long line of QB's that fall into one of these categories.

In some way or another, Whiz has been selecting poor talent, and wasting a considerable amount of the talent he DID have at his disposal. He seems to concentrate on one player at a time to see what he can accomplish with that player, then if they don't pass his muster, they fall into one of these three categories. One can almost assume that he feared that those he could not control might make him look bad, and found ways to negate their perceived threat to him in different ways. Who knows what he might have accomplished if he had shown the same loyalty to ALL his players as he did to his coaching staff?

The same could probably be attributed to his passing on prospective coaches or coordinators, such as Licht or Haley. I am almost sure that he was more than happy to release Haley to the Chief's, so that he could renew calling his own plays. He was probably more than happy to NOT return a call to someone who had such a fiery personality, and who might challenge how things were being done.

 

[Duckjake]

So if you are all knowing, why don't they offer the HC job to you. Then we all can tell you what an idiot you are. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Then you can see what it is like to be the HC. I know I will enjoy it

Because the Cardinals wouldn't know a good HC from a janitor?

Pay me $5.5 million and I'll go lose 11 out of 12 and you can call me an idiot all day every day and I'll enjoy every minute of it.

 

[Russ Smith]

Agree with you all the way.

Add too---at the most nicely surprising moment of the season since beating the Patriots---up 13-3 at Atlanta---to decide that was the best time to make a change at the QB position was about as strange a move as there is---sure it would have been one thing if Skelton was throwing interceptions---but the team had all the momentum---and was loving it---and then suddenly there's a rookie at QB who had never taken a snap in an NFL game. Our players were still thinking playoffs going into that game---a win puts them at 5-5 and right in the thick of it. The defense forces 7 turnovers---5 Matt Ryan interceptions---and the team still loses. Unfathomable.

Because the alternative was keeping a guy on the field who'd blown the last 2 drives. The first one on 3rd down his rookie WR lined up on the wrong side of the field, Skelton didn't see it and snapped the ball sending his rookie WR's route right into the path of the play. That's why Skelton looked so confused before firing late over the middle to Fitz on a sinking pass that dug into the turf as Fitz threw his hands up glaring at Michael Floyd knowing what happened.

So you go to the sideline as a coach just pleading with your THIRD year QB to know the damn offense, and then the defense gets another Turnover so you go right back out there, perfect playcall, HOF WR wide open for a TD, and the same THIRD year QB misses him and you settle for a FG.

At that point you have been giving Lindley reps all week anyways because you were not happy with your THIRD year Qb's preparation, so you make the change.

It didn't work, Lindley wasn't ready, may never be, but make no mistake John Skelton dug his own grave in Arizona. When he was given the offense he wasn't prepared to run with it and it cost him.

 

[Chopper0080]

The great coaches adapt and get on board with the times---look at what Shanahan has done with RGIII---and there's no bigger proponent of the smashmouth running game than Shanny.

Shanahan did the same thing with RGIII as he did with Jake Plummer and Jay Cutler which is run the ball in a zone blocking scheme and hold the backside DE with a QB bootleg.

Shanahan has not adopted a different style, he just finally got a QB who can run his style in Washington.

 

[Mitch]

Because the alternative was keeping a guy on the field who'd blown the last 2 drives. The first one on 3rd down his rookie WR lined up on the wrong side of the field, Skelton didn't see it and snapped the ball sending his rookie WR's route right into the path of the play. That's why Skelton looked so confused before firing late over the middle to Fitz on a sinking pass that dug into the turf as Fitz threw his hands up glaring at Michael Floyd knowing what happened.

So you go to the sideline as a coach just pleading with your THIRD year QB to know the damn offense, and then the defense gets another Turnover so you go right back out there, perfect playcall, HOF WR wide open for a TD, and the same THIRD year QB misses him and you settle for a FG.

At that point you have been giving Lindley reps all week anyways because you were not happy with your THIRD year Qb's preparation, so you make the change.

It didn't work, Lindley wasn't ready, may never be, but make no mistake John Skelton dug his own grave in Arizona. When he was given the offense he wasn't prepared to run with it and it cost him.

Completely disagree.

Not a convincing argument at all.

Wonder what you would hear from the players about that decision...a decision that ruined one of the greatest defensive efforts we will ever see from a Cardinals' defense.

 

[Mitch]

Shanahan did the same thing with RGIII as he did with Jake Plammer and Jay Cutler which is run the ball in a zone blocking scheme and hold the backside DE with a QB bootleg.

Shanahan has not adopted a different style, he just finally got a QB who can run his style in Washington.

Shanahan and his son did extensive research over the summer about the "read option" and incorporated it into their plan.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Shanahan did the same thing with RGIII as he did with Jake Plammer and Jay Cutler which is run the ball in a zone blocking scheme and hold the backside DE with a QB bootleg.

Shanahan has not adopted a different style, he just finally got a QB who can run his style in Washington.

I don't recall the Broncos ever using the "read option" with Plummer. Yeah they did run a lot of bootlegs, but he traditionally played under center with more traditional sets. They have adapted a completely different style of offense with RG3 IMO.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Shanahan and his son did extensive research over the summer about the "read option" and incorporated it into their plan.

Beat me too it!

 

[kerouac9]

Shanahan did the same thing with RGIII as he did with Jake Plammer and Jay Cutler which is run the ball in a zone blocking scheme and hold the backside DE with a QB bootleg.

Shanahan has not adopted a different style, he just finally got a QB who can run his style in Washington.

Imma jump in on this, too. With RG3 a little hobbled right now, they're running more of the traditional Shanahan offense, but early in the year, they were running some 70% of Washington's plays right out of the Baylor playbook.

 

[Russ Smith]

Completely disagree.

Not a convincing argument at all.

Wonder what you would hear from the players about that decision...a decision that ruined one of the greatest defensive efforts we will ever see from a Cardinals' defense.

Of course you disagree because I'm not blaming Whiz I'm blaming Skelton.

All I can tell you is one of the main issues Whiz had with Skelton prior to benching him is he did NOT know the offense. All year I harped on how Floyd was lining up incorrectly and Kolb kept moving him, and then later on how he wasn't being moved as often. the problem is, it wasn't because he knew how to line up, it was because Skelton was now starting and he kept runnning plays with Floyd lined up wrong. Whiz got sick of it and when it happened in the Falcons game he had enough.

But before he'd had a chance to decide what to do, we got the ball back so he put Skelton back in there and he missed Fitz and that was it.

You can't have your starting Qb not knowing the offense, especially in his 3rd year.

Look at it this way, how many Cardinal players are you aware of that have in ANY way complained about Skelton being benched? I can name one, John Skelton. Do you really think in THIS day and age of Twitter, instagram, Facebook etc that if they were all as mad as you were about that not a single one would have said so? Darnell Dockett wouldn't have gotten mad and popped off about it?

Don't you think it's JUST possible that they all knew why Skelton was in the doghouse, because he didn't know the offense? Yes ultimately it's the fault of Floyd for not knowing it but he's a very raw rookie and that's why you depend on your QB to know the offense, know the formations, know the protections etc so he can be your coach on the field. And when he shows up for games not prepared, you eventually have to hold him accountable.

If Whiz gets fired, which I think is possible, these stories will come out I can virtually guarantee you. You're still not going to want to believe them because you already have your mind made up, which is your choice, but I'm telling you the reason John Skelton got benched is he failed to prepare himself to be the starting Qb.
When Whiz says in press conferences there are thigns going on behind the scenes you guys aren't aware of, that's the kind of thing he means.

 

[Mulli]

Imma jump in on this, too. With RG3 a little hobbled right now, they're running more of the traditional Shanahan offense, but early in the year, they were running some 70% of Washington's plays right out of the Baylor playbook.

That read option out of the pistol looks new to me.

/s/ Rob Ryan

 

[Chopper0080]

Shanahan and his son did extensive research over the summer about the "read option" and incorporated it into their plan.

So instead of the "zone - stretch bootleg" they adjusted it to the "read option". Same principles with a different window dressing. Instead of running a zone stretch attack with a boot option from under center they run a zone stretch with a roll option out of the shotgun. Not a huge change other than the "read option" being easier as the QB doesn't have to turn his back on the defense.

 

[john h]

Closer than expected---which is good. But the game stopped being competitive early into the second half...and the harsh reality of how far the Cardinals have fallen from contention in the NFC West sank in like the fog into the tide at San Francisco Bay.

I like what I saw in Brian Hoyer---but was leery to see that his first ten throws in each half were 10 yards or less. To his credit, he then went deep a few times to his favorite target Michael Floyd---with very good success, because by then the Niners were sitting on all the dinks and dunks...like everyone else does.

To this day---I do not have any understanding of why the coaches insist upon 2 yard passes to the TE. Another one of those 2 yard passes should have been intercepted today--and the others set up second or third and 8s.

I still don't understand why no matter who is the QB we can't even run a semblance of a screen pass.

Still don't understand why Williams Powell wasn't used more---

For that matter watching Senio Kelemete get his first taste of action---why has he been sitting through a 5-11 season gathering moth balls on the bench? Why?

Still do't understand how the coaches would elect to keep 4 TEs---one of whom did not play for weeks and weeks on end---and yet even after Skelton went down in the first game, and we all knew that Kolb was unfortunately one hit away from the IR---why a young QB like Brian Hoyer was sitting out there all this time (until PIT called him a few weeks ago)---and yet, no calls from the Cardinals with Jason Licht (of the Pats), as DOPP in the house to boot?

Don't understand why WE here at ASFN were crying out for the Cardinals to claim him during Labor Day weekend---and yet no such thing until Week 16.

Still don't understand how there is speculation that the HC will be retained after the following:

* 18-30 last three years

* losing streaks of 6, 7, and 9 games (Jim Harbaugh's biggest losing streak in SF in two years? One game. That's the competition folks---like it or not).

* 1-5 in the NFC West this year (last 5 games, not competitive, in fact the Cardinals lost to the Rams, 49ers and Seahawks by a combined 157-36).

* 3rd down conversions last 12 games?:

4-14 (STL)
5-16 (BUF)
1-10 (MIN)
2-14 (SF)
6-15 (GB)
2-16 (ATL)
4-13 (STL)
0-15 (NYJ)
2-12 (DET)
3-15 (CHI)
3-12 (SF)

32-142 (22.6%)

* interceptions the last 6 games: 9 (3 for TDs)

* TD passes the last 6 games: 1

Back to what happened today---

Don't understand how Patrick Peterson was so badly schooled by Michael Crabtree for two games in a row---or how Peterson could put up such a shabby effort after being named to the Pro Bowl.

Still don't understand how with Jay Feely every on-side kick is a penalty for off-sides or the ball not going 1o yards.

Glad to see the Cardinals clamp down some on Frank Gore for a half.

Glad to see William Gay make a great tackle.

Glad to see Justin Bethel busting his tail to try to block FGs and XPTs.

Glad to see Feely make his FGs.

Glad to see Zastudil add to the record.

Glad this difficult to watch season is over.

Hey Mitch how about the first passing TD in something like 7 or more games? That is sort of unbelievable. I do know where we start and that is getting a first class GM and HC.